Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

the 2-3% figures were 2010
not a decade ago
back then, BB & NOKIA Communicator had filled the market & m$ barely got crumbles >¦-)
not that they are ever going to get much more then that.
the 4 to 5 % market share in Germany 2 years ago (WM) was probably the culmination ¦-)))))))))))))))

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

The iPhone brand is bigger than Nokia in china now

http://www.china.org.cn/business/201...t_23742948.htm

And Nokia didn't do so well in china last year

http://www.techinasia.com/nokia-2011...g-sales-china/

we would have to wait and see whether this is a trend. My guess is that they will start to lose more low end sales to ZTE and Huawei phones as they become much cheaper.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Interesting. I'm not saying this is cemented, but the war (not a battle over US) is fought on these markets, and I cannot see iPhone cheaper-edition taking those by storm. While they have cheap-*** producers there (as mentioned above) quality is still king in markets where your purchase has to work for next two years (Nokia 1st in this dept, chinese have some steps to cover)

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

The greatest laugh is at the "apps are king" crowd. Most localized for current users apps will be a goner once US+EU hit their real <10% userbase/margin/relevance in smartphone division. Africa+Asia got around 8x more to offer, facebook customer base will be dwarfved by one chinese social network alone, add India to thatg mess... see where I'm going. If handful (in comparison to populace) of chinese devs start going for WP war is won. (anybody else noticed some latest developments like chinese/HK language for N9 coming from channels that have jibberish in comments, not to mention audio???) If Jobs had a plan for iOS, its gone, except for reiterating my status by having expensive as hell phone, with current markety heading for 10% only android and WP are left

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

So AT&T is throwing USD 150 million into marketing Lumia 900. Nokia was going to spend USD 250 million on marketing Lumia, with special emphasis on USA.

MS can be expected to throw something in as well.

So somewhere around USD 200-400 million thrown at marketing Lumia, primarily the Lumia 900 in the US.

Let's say they sell 5 million Lumia 900's in the US, which is probably ridiculously optimistic. Then they've spent maybe, USD40-80 on marketing that thing depending on how much overlap there is between the AT&T, Nokia and MS numbers.

Add that to the USD 217 manufacturing cost, and the fact that Nokia is giving away the Lumia 900 "sold" on AT&T through April 22nd, and you end up with a per phone loss of USD 250-300. Great job Elop!

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Didn't believe it was true until C-Net did a little investigation of their own and discovered that at five different AT&T stores in New York, they walked in pretending to be first time buyers and all of them were introduced to the iPhone. Even when they intentionally asked for the Lumia 900, it was shrugged off, and they still were trying to be sold an iPhone. One rep even said "Windows Phone is ok, but it's no iPhone."

here's the link to the article: http://www.intomobile.com/2012/04/12...8IntoMobile%29

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Sadly, they are the majority in who's being catered to right now.

And 0% going to Harmattan.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

That's because that's what they "know". I was just in an AT&T store, had my N9 with me and was looking at the Lumia 900.

4 references to the iPhone 4S later, I finally got them to admit they didn't know much more than iOS and perhaps Blackberry - one dude was quite knowledgable about the Android ROM scene though.

If you want to blame anything, blame the lack of marketing and the lack of proper training. Nokia is trying to turn that around in the North American market by giving the managers Lumia's but that's a bit late in my book. But it's been like that in the US for ages... no N-series being sold in normal stores for ages.

And when I finally got a phone call in the store, I had a crowd around me asking me about the N9, MeeGo, why it looks like the Lumia but seems to be different... people just didn't know.

And that was the staff with perhaps a couple of customers asking me that... majority being staff.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Yeah, hardware & software (including OS) are not the same thing...

I like my Asus Transformer TF-101 but dislike Android (3.2 or 4.0).

By the way, I love my N900 & Maemo 5 OS :cool:

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

How can you like/dislike a tablet? A piece of glass with some chips inside? It's the OS that makes the phone/tablet along with the chips. The HW is just design with no functionality.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Because the Hardware and design is not purely aesthetic it does perform a function. With the Transformer its design allows it to connect a full keyboard and it's hardware might be powerful though a specific person may not like the user experience of the OS.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Lumia 710 & 800 has been released in Asia,except China, since beginning of 2012. In less than 3 months prices dropped. N9 took 6 months bf prices started dropping, due to - limited release thingy and they dont want N9 price to be lower than lumia 800.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Does this sound familiar to anyone?

"Microsoft employees were dismayed when they anonymously visited Verizon stores and discovered that employees for the carrier were reluctant to sell the Kin, said a Microsoft executive close to the Kin project. Verizon, the only carrier behind the Kin, tended to promote phones running Google’s Android software."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/05/te...pagewanted=all

They don't sell WP because they cannot recommend it and quite frankly if I were an AT&T employee I would see little reason to aswell.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

do you speak chinese?

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Thanks to yet another Google+ posting...

Herb Greenberg: The Worst CEOs for 2012
Stephen Elop, Nokia

http://www.cnbc.com/id/47030593/Herb...r_2012?slide=3

Well, you can't say he didn't earn this distinction a few times over with his career. Nokia is DEFINITELY his prize failure under his watch. Best line of the article: "Securing Elop’s name on this year’s Worst CEO candidates list: Nokia’s Easter Day launch of its long-awaited Windows-based phone. Easter. Really?"

Keep blaming those salespeople, Elop. heh

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

blame who?

lol its getting funnier

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Now that is a price Elop deserves and should most definitely get. I for once fully support him. And I also believe that as things get worse Elop will blame more abstract things like the spirits, or the curse of the pharaoh and stuff like that.


Damn you I wanted to post that :p

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

This is on the Reg as well here
Best comment is at the bottom of the article

Hang on doesnt Nokia have called the N9, which Elop in his wisdom refuse to sell anywhere wher it may make Lumia's look sh1te.

Can someone send him to CEO101 please

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Again... this is a flaw in Nokia's "logic". This man was the CEO of Macromedia when Adobe bought them out for three months (only!) and he did nothing to stop or enhance that merger.

All he's done so far is collect 1.4 million salary, a 6 million dollar bonus for signing on from Microsoft, brought a Microsoft product aboard and seems to be setting up Nokia for acquisition by Microsoft.

You... get what you pay for I guess.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

European Operators: “No one comes into the store and asks for a Windows phone.”

too bad NOKIA is practically nonexistent in the US market, now, isn't it?

high time to send Floppy back where it came from :mad:

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

You folks MUST see this.. heh! Tech News Today talking about the Nokia Lumia 900's reception:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOPy9jNhEjc&t=33m58s

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

thanks for that :) :p

EDIT: the guy "on video" (theverge.com ?) says oo will be the "savior" for wp; any clue what's the rational behind that? or is it just a (disappointed) fan boy giving himself away?

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

This is probably me being stupid but what's oo? tried for a while but couldn't think of anything other than open office.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

that would have been OOo now, wouldn't it?

did you try context sensitive?
like... impotent 8, maybe? :D
or simply watching the youtube?

talking of which... from theverge.com
Sources: current Windows Phone devices will not get 'Apollo' upgrade >¦-)))))))))

that will DEFINITELY help Lumia sales now, won't it?

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

I'm with Cue--I've watched the video a few times and I'm not sure what you're referring to with 'oo'... no need to be nasty to Cue, it was a genuine question for clarity.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

I had watched the movie several times too. Still not sure even after his reply, but I think what he is saying is that it's an impotent 8 (the number on it's side) created with o's.

At first I thought it was a makeshift infinity sign ∞ refering to the endless "next version" being the savior. it's quite an obscure thing to figure out so forget I asked because whatever the reason for using oo I think he's refering to Windows 8 and not an abbreviation for some possibly cool new app/device/feature that I conjured up.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Well, and here... take a listen/watch of today's Tech News Today. Yet more bad news for new Lumia 900 owners. So much bad news for Nokia, Lumia 900 and ... well, just listen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0Yd9vLGAP0&t=13m25s

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

glad to see you caught up ;)

are you still listening :eek: (?)
how much do you have to hear to admit that m$ + NOKIA, so far, has no future?
for something that has not much or no past to speak of what does that leave you with?
a nice present, huh? :D

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

The times might be a changin'. If so, Elop will have to find someone else to blame.

Salespeople say the darndest things: secret-shopping the Nokia Lumia 900

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Obviously, three stores is not at all a representative sample of the entire country. That said, other publications including CNET and the New York Times have conducted in-person visits of AT&T stores, and found that the salespeople had lukewarm feelings for the Lumia 900. Our earliest experience at the third AT&T store corroborated that.

not really what's needed to get off the ground, is it?
any unconvinced (m$) customer would hardly be won over by such a talk...

EDIT: plus, once the "no upgrade" news gets around, those unconvinced customers will be even fewer.
most apps (coded) for Apollo should also run on Mango, thus the OS version doesn't really matter.
but for the non techie consumer that simply translates to "old software" on "old hardware"...
why bother?

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Well, and for that matter, the same argument could be made for iOS and Android apps, too. MOST Android apps should and DO run on everything from Android 4.x (Ice Cream Sandwich) all the way back to 1.5 (Donut). MOST iOS apps will still run on most older versions of iOS. This is hardly a selling argument for their platform.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

tiny puny li'l detail...
anybody & everybody gets either an ANDroid or an iPotato device (ear to mouth, good will, call it whatever you want...)
what has wp going for it?
obviously not the AT&T sales people...

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

The hardest point to argue will be: most android phones still waiting for ICS update, months after N900 non-android phone had it. Will get it 2-3 months before contract renewal. Damn, Microsoft with their Apollo non-update just broke all the rules (Belle on N97?)

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

copy that.
said it myself, from a technical point of view, OS (version) is not a factor for apps, thus doesn't really matter.
only:

• m$ has a bad reputation on the mobile market
• the sales ppl in the shop (or elsewhere, see thread title...) don't care to push it
• apps are more likely to cost (more) b/c their are less enthusiasts out, thus less ppl inclined to make an app... just for the fun of it (& make it available online; the infrastructure simply isn't there)

most customers don't choose their new phone with their head but mostly... with their guts, or social media & all

i'm not saying wp has to fail (i take for granted it will :D), simply listing reasons why...
any reason (or... sign?) it is a roaring success?

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Mind you ICS on N900 is a crippled affair.. but SURE! It's ICS! ...kinda. :) DAMN that non-Android phone closed-source bits! heh Good thing Android was open enough to port to a non-Android device. Can't really say the same for Maemo. How about porting Windows Phone to a non-Windows-Phone device? No? Aw shux! So much for breaking all the rules. :)


Well, and don't forget that most people want what they see their family and friends are clearly enjoying--especially if it will do the things they need. PLUS--it helps to have support... both from the companies involved as well as the people you know. If you know family and friends have it, you're likely going to be able to ask them for their suggestions or for help. At least, that's how it seems most people think and it's not all that unreasonable.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Is crippled worse than 'none at all'?

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

If you can't make calls, for example? Yes. :) I'd rather use a slightly older version that works flawlessly than a crippled newer one, yes.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

But isn't it all about latest gloss/eye-candy? Previous version also didn't have calls so you're not losing anything, just gaining (sure your point stands, but my point with 99% andoird devices lagging behind latest OS releases also does, lets call it a tie)

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Man, in the name of the spectators, thanks for fighting this uphill battle!

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

It seems that you're following some other conversation than the one we're having. You see, he (szopin of yesterday's conversation) was making the point that the N900 (a non-Android device) is getting a NEWER version of Android than most actual Android devices. To whit, I replied pointing out that the N900 Android experience is surely a newer one, but severely crippled and slower than even the slightly older versions of Android running on Android devices. :)

It just makes sense, I think. But you're welcome!