Re: Sype In as a phone replacement
 

The quality of Skype on the N800 cannot compare with a regular phone. Just too many drop outs and mediocre sound, gets on your nerves quickly.

Gizmo works better overall, but their network is not completely reliable when calling a landline phone.

I hope the new OS will have a better skype implementation.

Re: Sype In as a phone replacement
 

To clarify what I've said about Skype and microphones:
I have called the same people using the Jabber/Gtalk client and Skype. I can only use the former when the N800 is in my pocket; with Skype, people complain about loud noises; source is verified when I blow on the microphone.


About battery life and power sockets:
Major factors in the degradation of Lithium rechargeables are charge level and heat. A battery stored at 100% degrades much faster than one at 40%, and one kept at 50 degrees C cooks far quicker than one at 20 degrees. Battery University provides the lowdown.

Anyway, this explains why my last laptop battery went from full to useless in a year: Compaq's design did not allow it to be removed, Intel's P4M specs (what a dog) had it running at high temperature, and I had the computer plugged in and running most of the time.

When I've been using the n800 for VoIP, after about 10-20 minutes, the unit gets noticeably warm to the touch. Now, plugged into the wall, and doing something fancy, that's gonna result in wear.

And if you store it for days plugged in, you're storing it at 100%, guaranteeing degradation. If you let it run down to three bars or so, then the battery should last longer.

Re: Sype In as a phone replacement
 

Well, the major factor is charge / discharge cycles. You get only 300-500 cycles. Storing a battery fully charged at 25C -vs- 0C reduced the capacity by a mere 16% after 12months of such storage (source: your battery university link above). A key factor in all of this is "what did the designer of the battery program the float voltage to be?". We do not know what the N800 battery's float voltage is, and that plays a huge factor in longevity. Float voltage is something us end-users have zero control over, and I'm sure over a year's time charging and discharging the N800 battery will put more than 16% wear and tear on it, so my feeling is, keep the battery charged when you have an external power source available. Charging and discharging the battery 200-300 times in a year puts much more wear on the battery than leaving it on full charge all year long (assuming the battery pack designer did not set the float voltage way higher than he should have).

Using the N800 without it being plugged into an external power source results in wear on the battery also.

You make reasonable points about long term storage, but the guy I responded to was asking if it was okay to keep the N800 on 24hours a day so he could effective use it for Skype-In. This isn't really storage.

I too have noticed the N800 warm slightly when doing processor intensive tasks like watching movies and Skype but it does not come close to how hot most laptops get, the N800 doesn't get nearly as warm as my Samsung A900 cellphone when it is in prolonged use. I'd say the N800 stays relatively cool compared to many portable devices. Regardless, it is what it is.... I'm going to use it for Skype and to view movies, and play music, and run Maemo Mapper and internally it will get slightly above room temperature.

The alternative is to not use the N800 and keep the battery at below full charge, stored in my refrigerator 12 months out of the year, but then I can't enjoy using the N800 at all. :-(


Maybe the battery designer for that COMPAQ battery model had a high float voltage setting programmed, which was good for capacity but bad for longevity. (BTW- I had a Compaq N150 laptop which I kept plugged in for three years 24/7 as my main computer. The few times it was unplugged from AC power is when I took it out of the house which wasn't very many times, and that laptop and battery lived 4 years that way, and still worked somewhat when I sold it, so your Compaq notebook experience was different than mine. What model Compaq notebook did you have that would not permit you to remove the battery??). The float voltage set by the designer is out of our control and if you knew it was high and you wanted to take action that would require you to always manually pull the external power away before the battery reaches full charge, and shut your computer off. Not very practical or pleasant way to use any battery powered computer device.

I say, just use the N800 the way you want / need. If you want it to be a Skype-In device and be powered on all day and you worry about float voltage (chosen by the battery pack designer) being too high and you don't wish to keep it plugged into the external power, then unplug it but realize the drain (you have unnecessarily triggered) on the battery is a "cycle" of the limited number of cycles the battery has (300-500 cycles) ANOTHER source of battery wear. Who is to say which manner of wear will degrade the battery quicker....it all depends on how you use the N800 and too many variables to give a perfect answer. Being extremely anal about trying to get a working N800 battery to live close to as long as a battery that was put in a refrigerator with a 40% partial charge isn't what I want to do with my N800.

I say, leave it charged most of the time so there is a full charge when you need it to go portable (which is what Nokia had in mind for us) and be prepared to buy a replacement battery when the time comes either because the 300-500 cycles transpired or the battery wore out sooner because it was kept fully charged and above room temperature (the later being the lesser evil).

Is it okay to keep the N800 plugged in all day in order to receive Skype-In calls? Yes, in my opinion. Your opinion may differ.

DingerX brings forth a good piece of advice, and this goes for all portable devices with lithium batteries (cellphones, laptops, PDA, N800), do not leave them in a car on a sunny day with the windows rolled up. The heat in such a scenario is definitely not good for the battery. Heat is your enemy with lithium.

I just went to eBay and looked an several BP-5L 1300mAh replacement batteries for the N800. They are $4 plus ~$8 shipping in the US. I'm not going to get all anal about stretching the battery in my N800 to the max. if I can buy another battery for under $15 to my door. Keeping my N800 battery meter at three bars as you suggest is too much of a hassle (for me). I'll just buy another battery for ~$12 when the time comes, and enjoy the freedom of not worrying about shortening my N800 battery by a possible 16% a year by keeping it plugged in nearly 100% of the time at 25degreesC (and this isn't even a known because we have no idea what float voltage is designed into the controller in the BP-5L).

Your mileage may vary.

Re: Sype In as a phone replacement
 

Ultimately, yeah. Use it the way you're comfortable using it. When the battery dies, replace it. Even Nokia branded batteries aren't that expensive. The way I use the thing, I'll be surprised if my battery lasts half a year.

The Laptop designers were just bad. I don't see it as a float issue: I would go for weeks where I'd run it always plugged into the wall. If they actually decided to take from the battery in quick cycles (your float, I suppose), then the battery would not have lasted four months.

As it was, it was crammed into a case with components that regularly heated the surrounding area to 70 degrees C.


Anyway, I was just trying to determine why Nokia would advise against leaving the thing plugged in all the time. Maybe you're right about the float voltage and cycling.
If the n800 is designed to run off of batteries, and to recharge those batteries (in other words, its "plugged in" state uses the battery whenever possible -- after all, this thing has a lot of components from cell phones), then using it while plugged in could very well cause a series of quick recharge cycles (let's see, if it cycles once every ten minutes, then you'll cook the battery in 80 hours). Leaving it plugged in and turned on may cause it to cycle only once every few hours (so, 1000 hours, or forty days continuous). But, as you point out, all this is aimless speculation without some spare time and a lab setup.

Moral of the story: use it. If you find yourself changing batteries every week, rethink your strategy.

Re: Sype In as a phone replacement
 

I have been using Skype for three years and I cannot say I have seen this inferior performance. You must have something setup wrong with your network, your computer, or your internet service provider.

I use Skype instead of a landline, and have been doing so for the past 2 years. Prior to that I was using Skype but still had my landline at the ready. What I pay for Skype-Out & Skype-In are a bargain and the service works well with my ISP and my Local Area Network (the way it is set-up).

I use both Gizmo and Skype on the N800 ( and my desktops and laptops) and I cannot say I agree with this either.

I have noticed that the internal N800 microphone is extremely sensitive. Any background noise (distant room noises) are picked up and incorporated into a N800 Skype / Gizmo call. More so, than a cellular call or a call with a ordinary telephone. It is a microphone issue. Forget about using Skype on the N800 in a noisy coffee shop / donut shop, or out on the street with the N800's internal micrpphone. I am glad it is so sensitive though because the alternative is worst IMO. When I am home (it is quiet here) I can use Skype on the N800 as a speakerphone and people say they hear me loud and clear. That would not be possible if the N800 microphone was attentuated.

Skype has much higher fidelity than cellular or landline phone calls, Skype to Skype. Whenever you go Skype to landline (Skype-Out) or you get a call from a landline (Skype-In), fidelity is limited by the landline.

I am fairly convinced that dropped calls, choppy call behavior with N800 VOIP are almost always local area network issues between the N800 and the wireless access point the N800 is exchanging packets with. I don't think this is a Skype issue. Sometimes it is an Internet congestion issue in general.... that is also out of Skype's control.

A big issue that I look forward to OS2008 resolving is the Bluetooth headset / Skype issue. I could not believe when I got my N800 that there was no facility for using a Bluetooth headset for N800 VOIP. When that begins working I will celebrate.

M5

Re: Sype In as a phone replacement
 

My guess is that this is simply a leftover from when Nokia used NiMH batteries, they used exactly the same advice then. Which would have been correct, as those chargers were timer-based and had other problems. In particular, the point about 'overcharging' seems to support this theory: You could overcharge NiMH batteries (particularly with the timer-based chargers), there is _no possibility_ to overcharge a Li-Ion battery, in the sense that if the device didn't turn off the charger when the battery was full then the battery would explode..

(and btw. there's regulation circuitry in the devices too, the one in the battery is the final safety circuit, it switches off at typically 4.30V which is a bit higher than your device. Don't know the N800 voltage, but my Palm T3 cuts at 4.24V)

Re: Sype In as a phone replacement
 

That's what I thought first when I had the problems with Skype (just calling echo123 etc). But the internet connection is perfectly fine, I have a good Linksys router and there is nothing which prevents skype to work. I even opened a special port for skype alone, with not much success.

The quality of skype is certainly much worse than a normal mobile phone call.

Re: Sype In as a phone replacement
 

If there is a malfunction of the microcontroller circuit inside the battery, and the external power were connected the results could be catastrophic. My guess is, that Nokia ( and the laptop manufacturers ) tell us to disconnect the external power from our devices in the rare event there is a malfunction in the battery's safety circuitry.

There is no downside from Nokia's perspective ( or Dell, Compaq, IBM, et.al. ) to suggest we remove the external power when it has completed it's role. This might prevent .0000....0002% of the liability claims from a lithium battery failure. When the external power is not connected and the microcontroller in the lithium cell malfunctions, there can be no fire or explosion. So, there is an upside for them to say it. Also, if removing the external power results in battery cycles that wear the battery quicker and we need to buy a new battery in 2 years ( or one year ) instead of the battery lasting longer, Nokia gets a chance to sell us a replacement battery and make a few more bucks (another upside for them, but I'd imagine it is more the safety / liability angle).

Re: Sype In as a phone replacement
 

I don't know if this is going to be of any help, but you can give it a shot... it is easy enough to do:

goto xterm and type-

gconftool-2 --set --type int '/system/osso/connectivity/IAP/wlan_sleep_timeout'
'1000'

for more information about why this might have a beneficial effect read this:

https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1636

and this

http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...ad.php?t=11645

Hope this proves useful.

Re: Sype In as a phone replacement
 

Thanks, i just changed the sleep timeout, but it seems to have no effect on skype.

Calling echo123, the girl's announcement sometimes drops a syllable. Not always in the same place if I repeat. Calling a friend, he also notices drop outs on my side.

My ADSL-connection is 1 Mbit/s downstream and 128k upstream. Not sure if this is too slow for skype.