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Re: Some things I don't understand

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benson (Post 162906)

(is it getroot or becomeroot? I don't remember...)

becomeroot or easyroot. Both work, though I mildly prefer easyroot (type 'root' ;)).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benson (Post 162906)

For fonts, you need to use fc-cache... dunno if you tried that and still had trouble.

A restart also works.

Re: Some things I don't understand

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerS (Post 162908)

Er, I'm saying these are old questions that finally did get responded to.

OK, instead of the open-ended tablet we have, there might be a smoother-operating but closed-environment tablet. I can grok that. Just, I think a few user aspects might have been dealt with over these last two-plus years.

Roger

Not talking about a closed environment tablet. There are many faults which could be fixed without any closing at all.

Re: Some things I don't understand

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerS (Post 162912)

I didn't offer up these complaints two years ago, though plenty did.

It just seems ridiculous that the built-in apps are clueless in these signficiant ways, and that the tablet is harder to use than regular Linux (for us Linux tourists).

I'm not disagreeing with you. If the built-in software that presents itself to the end user was complete, polished and easy to use I would be pushing these tablets on everyone I met. But it just ain't so.

Re: Some things I don't understand

Trust me Roger, if half of the things you mention were enabled, this forum will be flooded.

Re: Some things I don't understand

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles (Post 162896)

Mostly because official PAN support isn't done, but with the community PAN support it should be fairly straightforward.

"Official." Hm-m. That's what I'm talking about. My internet device isn't very useful when the most natural path to the internet (at times) is ignored. Says I.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles (Post 162896)

I'm not entirely sure what you mean here. Are you saying Linux is too hard or it's too hard to get to the Linux underpinnings with ITOS?

I'm going to assume the later, anyway. It all goes back to Nokia's user-friendliness philosophy of keeping the users that don't know what they're doing away from Linux. Not that I particularly agree with it, but, really, if you've got a problem with anything, that's what bugzilla is for.

I'm just saying that Linux is way stricter than MacOS and Windows about keeping such users from harming things unwittingly. That's already. The barriers put into the IT OS are overkill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles (Post 162896)

Such are the pitfalls of an immature Linux platform. An enhancement request for a GUI font-manager of some sort, maybe?

I can do that. But taking a look around at, well, the internet would point out the significance of making it easy to adapt things to the way the user wants them. I mean, what are there, 4000 plug-ins for Firefox?

We live in our browser. Making it feel right to each of us should be simple as dirt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles (Post 162896)

It does, it's called R&D mode. If not that, it's not as if the 3rd party packages are particularly hard to install.

The reason I write a blog called Internet Tablet Users blog is that I have an unyielding resistance to leaving the realm of what-a-typical-user-is-expected-to-know. If you think R&D mode is bending sufficiently far in this direction, then I would respectfully suggest that you have become insensate to the needs of users who have been using computers for 5-10 years already but don't want to spend any more time learning computer tips and tricks. That encompasses virtually everyone I know, btw (excepting only some of the 12-year-olds in the neighborhood who have only 3-4 years experience). I've used it. But I shook my head every time, muttering foul sentiments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles (Post 162896)

Gizmo, amsn, and Google Talk all provide this and it's fairly dead-simple to use.

Gizmo's capability is newer than my last check with them. I'm happy to hear about it. amsn is unknown to me. And if you think getting the cam capability to work with Google Talk is easy, you're mistaken.

Four of us spent longer than an hour in February trying to get it to work, and we failed. However clever or dumb we are, we had the desire and inclination to make it work and we put in the time. And we couldn't get it going, despite 7 degrees among us (and one high-schooler who lives on IM).

If it's dead-simple, then something really is wrong. Or missing. Like better instructions or easier-to-find information or wider-ranging trouble-shooting advice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles (Post 162896)

:rolleyes: C'mon, now . . . get yourself a Google Talk account for both devices and you're done. Dead simple. :)

Where were you when my brother-in-law was shaking his head at our inability to let the IT strut its stuff?

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles (Post 162896)

Because that's how the upgrade process works. ;) This is irrelevant, anyway, as Diablo is just a little ways away.

Good answer for 2005. 2006 too. Probably not for 2007. Not at all for 2008. IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles (Post 162896)

Do you mean RAM or rootfs? Swap is RAM extension, and we already have this. rootfs extension is slightly less straightforward, but certainly do-able with a little Linux ability (or the ability to follow instructions closely). Nokia probably figured (largely correctly) that most users wouldn't run out the internal storage.

An enhancement request for GUI method to extend the rootfs to the internal card couldn't hurt, though.

I was indeed referring to rootfs extension. Since you can't increase the IT's RAM, swap is the only way to get a bigger workspace. Now, again, I don't have a problem with requesting this particular enhancement.

But when a rhetorical question is asked, it's because the interlocutor believes the question is already well known. It's not "Why is this feature this way?" It's "Why is this feature still this way? Haven't we brought it up enough times already for something to have been done?" At least, as I see things.

Roger
(corporal in the IT army, enlisted June 2005)

Re: Some things I don't understand

Quote:

Originally Posted by TA-t3 (Post 162897)

That the file manager doesn't show all files have nothing to do with Linux being hard, it's a file manager application issue only. It's presumably written by Nokia, I haven't seen this file manager elsewhere. The issue is a real enough problem, the heading is misleading.

Perhaps I'm infelicitous in my wording. The way Nokia has implemented even simple things like looking at your files is ridiculous.

I know it's not Linux that prevents my seeing the files, but Nokia's particular offering here. How many people buying internet tablets will never have used a file manager on a computer before? Doesn't it seem ridiculous to you on its face that you can't override this restriction?

Roger

Re: Some things I don't understand

It's quite strange really. Nokia makes a product that really has good potential and then releases it half finished. The hardware side seems fine but the software side is lacking. It would have been fine if it was a developer release device, but as a device for anybody, it's not good enough.

The OS seems half way developed and then they hope that developers will fix the rest.

Make a good software environment (no PIM?!??) so that normal users can use it. And make it open so users how want to hack and develop are free to do so. Why is that so hard?

Re: Some things I don't understand

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benson (Post 162906)

Re: getting root access, all you have to do to get root is install one package (is it getroot or becomeroot? I don't remember...) through the package manager. Then, from the terminal, sudo gainroot makes you root... The days of ssh being required, or of having to reflash with rd-mode, are gone. I assume you're referring to one of those techniques with "developer-class knowledge".

I did install easyroot. But why did I need to? If it's simple enough for a single install to make things work naturally (eg, the same as with other Linux distros), why not just have a switch somewhere in the Control Panel -- "Let Linux be Linux, remove super-protector features".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benson (Post 162906)

For fonts, you need to use fc-cache... dunno if you tried that and still had trouble.

I've installed fonts before and used them, in FBReader.

Can you add a new font to your IT and choose it in the browser in under 30 seconds? Under 3 minutes? Sure can in our desktops.

Please — don't tell me how to change this in the browser. I'd rather figure it out on my own and give myself something more to stoke my frustration.

OK, just kidding. But barely.

Roger

Re: Some things I don't understand

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bundyo (Post 162924)

Trust me Roger, if half of the things you mention were enabled, this forum will be flooded.

:-)

(Any real way to answer that?)

My hope isn't that all the power will be released in the Internet Tablets, but that POLS will be better implemented and the things one wants to do often will be made easier to use.

Roger

(Following the principle of least surprise means that when the user doesn't know what to do, he or she tries what seems most logical (based on how everything else works) and, sure enough, it works somewhat the same in this circumstance. )

Re: Some things I don't understand

i have to say that the video call between two gtalks on two internet tablets are a nobrainer..... and it worked every time i tried. I seriously cant imagine anyone not getting it to work. May be something wrong with the network you tried or something else.... but it is very very straightforward.