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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)
-   Development (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=13)
-   -   Time to start pushing packages to extras-testing? (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=30541)

X-Fade 2009-07-29 14:22
Re: Time to start pushing packages to extras-testing?
 
I've just blogged about the maemo-select-menu-location issue. It seems that quite a lot of packages seem to have dependencies on this and this prevents promotion.


PS. It is Fremantle and Niels :)

X-Fade 2009-07-29 14:33
Re: Time to start pushing packages to extras-testing?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qgil (Post 307504)
Let me elaborate a bit more:

- A developer is just playing with some packages in extras-devel: no Downloads page.

- A developer thinks the app is in a shape good enough to be promoted to -testing: Page created with Alpha label.

- An app makes it to extras-testing, ideally the page would be automatically updated to Beta within a week. Otherwise the change would be made manually.

- An apps makes it to Extras, ideally geta automatically updated to Stable quality. Otherwise the change is done manually.
I think we should not show any app which is not in Extras (or equivalent) in Downloads. Downloads should in my point of view be for end-user level users. Having packages from various repositories is the road to pain.

Keep in mind that Downloads clicks automatically get an .install and thus can enable these unstable repositories.

The reason why I haven't enabled Downloads for Fremantle yet, is because there are no packages in Fremantle Extras yet.

We should market the extras-testing queue for community testers and developers, but really keep this separate from what end-users see. The testing queue has commenting and favouriting, so even if there is no central bugtracker, people can leave their comments about the package there.

qgil 2009-07-29 14:54
Re: Time to start pushing packages to extras-testing?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by X-Fade (Post 307508)
I think we should not show any app which is not in Extras (or equivalent) in Downloads. Downloads should in my point of view be for end-user level users. Having packages from various repositories is the road to pain.
True, true, true!

That was proposed when someone like me could not dream of pages like http://maemo.org/packages/view/bluemaemo/ :)

Let's drop then the criteria of having a Downloads page. Good package description visible in the Application Manager is enough.

We will still need to find a way to check that an app willing to make it to Extras will have a proper Downloads page in place, but this belong to the discussion about promoting apps from -testing to Extras.

VDVsx 2009-07-29 15:04
Re: Time to start pushing packages to extras-testing?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qgil (Post 307510)
True, true, true!

That was proposed when someone like me could not dream of pages like http://maemo.org/packages/view/bluemaemo/ :)
Just as a side note, this package won't work in Fremantle, this is the normal BlueMaemo version for Diablo, I think Jeremiah built and sent it to Fremantle extras-devel by mistake, and also a lot of the BlueMaemo dependencies aren't satisfied yet in Fremantle :( (python-efl), seems that the builder don't check for the dependencies in the right place, don't know if this is already fixed.

fredoll 2009-07-29 16:09
Re: Time to start pushing packages to extras-testing?
 
trying to promote package but cannot do it because it depends on a user package that should be promoted ... but I have promoted it ...

packages gnokii-gconf, libgnokii4-dev, libgnokii4

X-Fade 2009-07-29 21:01
Re: Time to start pushing packages to extras-testing?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredoll (Post 307526)
trying to promote package but cannot do it because it depends on a user package that should be promoted ... but I have promoted it ...

packages gnokii-gconf, libgnokii4-dev, libgnokii4
This is because I need to run the first few promotions manually, so I can see if everything goes the way it is supposed to go. The promotion and dependency checking code I wrote is quite large and complex, problems will probably only pop-up in real life testing. So please bear with me :)

Oh, btw. Please don't put libraries as section(category) user/*, gnokii seems to do that. End-users should not have to see the lib in their AM.

Jaffa 2009-07-29 21:21
Re: Time to start pushing packages to extras-testing?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qgil (Post 307315)
Let me say BIG THANK YOU to Jeremiah, Niels and whoever else has been involved in the development of the maemo.org packages interface - http://communitizer.blogspot.com/200...-packages.html

Now... let's have a look to the queue of apps that have been pushed from extras-devel to extras-testing:

http://maemo.org/packages/repository...ng_free_armel/

Zero! OK, makes sense. How do we get started, though?
Apart from the earlier comments about difficulties in getting any app stabilised enough, I think there are three things necessary:
  1. Clearer communication on what's required from app authors (there's a process doc which is the output of the earlier task. Not directly suitable for package maintainers.
  2. Technology in place (maemian etc.) to do some basic automated checks (big warnings which have to be specifically overruled for any lib* package in section: user/..., for example)
  3. Instructions for how to promote when you want to.

The last point is particularly important: I just went to my package and couldn't see a "Promote" button anywhere; despite looking.

Of course, with a bit of thought, it's obvious I have to promote an individual version - but then I have to promote the armel & x86 versions separately: a step back from the earlier extras-devel -> extras promotion interface, IMHO.

I think it's likely a developer will want to promote all the architectures, and OS versions, for the latest version of a package. Perhaps some kind of checkbox & promote button on a package; or a "Promote latest" button would help?

Quote:
So what about starting the process of developers pushing the packages that they think are ready to extras-testing?
Ultimately, this is a question for Niels - he knows whether the software's stable and ready for more testing yet.

X-Fade 2009-07-30 07:24
Re: Time to start pushing packages to extras-testing?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaffa (Post 307586)
Apart from the earlier comments about difficulties in getting any app stabilised enough, I think there are three things necessary:
  1. Clearer communication on what's required from app authors (there's a process doc which is the output of the earlier task. Not directly suitable for package maintainers.
  2. Technology in place (maemian etc.) to do some basic automated checks (big warnings which have to be specifically overruled for any lib* package in section: user/..., for example)
  3. Instructions for how to promote when you want to.
Agreed, I could really use some help on this part. I spent and am still spending a lot of hours on getting all related scripts/services into shape, so I didn't have time to write up any documentation yet. Or even start a discusssion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaffa (Post 307586)
The last point is particularly important: I just went to my package and couldn't see a "Promote" button anywhere; despite looking.

Of course, with a bit of thought, it's obvious I have to promote an individual version - but then I have to promote the armel & x86 versions separately: a step back from the earlier extras-devel -> extras promotion interface, IMHO.
When promotion is requested for the armel version for instance, we will promote the related source and i386 packages at the same time. This obviously needs to be documented. When I remove the manual step of promotion, you will see that the other package will be updated at the same time.

The promotion link actually only shows when all conditions for a package instance have been satisfied. This means that currently all dependencies must be available and you are maintainer of the package (and when in testing, karma value must be > 5). This way we prevent accidental promotions and also prevent packages with missing dependencies from entering the repository.

fredoll 2009-07-30 09:12
Re: Time to start pushing packages to extras-testing?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by X-Fade (Post 307578)
This is because I need to run the first few promotions manually, so I can see if everything goes the way it is supposed to go. The promotion and dependency checking code I wrote is quite large and complex, problems will probably only pop-up in real life testing. So please bear with me :)
No problemo, thanks for the good work
I thought I'll try to promote just to help test the process so here you are :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by X-Fade (Post 307578)
Oh, btw. Please don't put libraries as section(category) user/*, gnokii seems to do that. End-users should not have to see the lib in their AM.
You're right : I changed it

X-Fade 2009-07-30 10:07
Re: Time to start pushing packages to extras-testing?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredoll (Post 307673)
No problemo, thanks for the good work
I thought I'll try to promote just to help test the process so here you are :)

You're right : I changed it
I've added a check + warning to prevent this now:
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...6.28cvs-maemo2

I will remove the first promotion from the queue manually, so you can promote the proper one.


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