Re: Talk Maemo: noise to signal ratio
 

I feel by your comment that you’re more than a common future user. One of the things that I like about community developing is that even if your not a programmer you can always propose ideas, report bugs, create wallpapers, whatever…

Re: Talk Maemo: noise to signal ratio
 

I'm still here. Been here all morning. ;)
Like an addict with my fix.

Re: Talk Maemo: noise to signal ratio
 

Is that what you old timers called it back in the day? H'mmm. "A Holiday in Cornwall"... I'll have to remember that. :p

***

As far as S/N ratios go, you are pro'ly right Kat. A lot of that will go away once there is a purpose (device in hand) again. Gaming the karma system is going to happen but I don't think it is sustainable over a long period of time. Some of the objections or "sour grapes" voiced over this system may have been because some newer people may at first assumed (mistakenly) that karma and thanks had a 1 to 1 relationship. Also, linking givers as well as receivers to a profile page that uses a real name and a real e-mail addy may reduce what BS there is even more.

Now as far as: I agree... and nothing brings them out faster and in greater numbers than giving something away for free. It's the American way. :p
Today is Halloween here in the states and I am reminded that we start conditioning our youth to expect this from an early age. :D

...Unfortunately the real nut cases are there on Holloween too, and they will use the opportunity to advance their own twisted agenda.

Re: Talk Maemo: noise to signal ratio
 

I modded in a forum where the concept of 'troll' went to the level of hacking people's email accounts, posting their social security number online, and photoshopping the admin's head onto necro porn. Maybe I'm a little hypersensitive to atmosphere.

As you say, with any luck, things will settle when the devices actually start shipping (*sigh*). I just don't like the feeling that we've bounced in here and made the folk who've slogged on this project for years feel uncomfortable.

Re: Talk Maemo: noise to signal ratio
 

None of the activities you listed can be called "trolling". They are abusive hacking activities. Well, the necro porn is actually not a punishable offense in my book, but the rest deserves an immediate ban ("compromising other users' privacy, invading their lives outside of the forum"), case closed.

Thankfully, we are not seeing any of these on t.m.o.

Re: Talk Maemo: noise to signal ratio
 

I don't think you should do that, and also I'd rather you didn't do that. Firstly, I don't know how often you change devices, but I'd expect my N900 to have a lifetime of a few years at least, and it seems rather self-defeating to cancel and spend the next couple of years N900-less because you're upset at spending this few weeks N900-less. The delays are indeed annoying, and the standards of communication from Nokia have been lamentable, but cancelling the order's going to have more impact on you than it is on them.

Secondly, if you don't get an N900 I imagine you'll stop hanging around the forum so much, and I think that would be worse for everyone. I've only been here a fairly brief time too, and clearly there's a bit of a culture clash occurring (actually, I think, several overlapping ones all happening simultaneously), but I think your calm and good-humoured posting style helps in getting useful discussions to happen, and judging by your 'thanks' counter I'm not alone in valuing your contributions.

So, yeah, don't do that; it'd be sad.

Re: Talk Maemo: noise to signal ratio
 

We go through these expansion periods every time a new release rolls around. Usually it's bad for a month or two but eventually people either get bored and move on or become productive citizens. This one happens to be more severe than the others, but I expect the process will follow the same timeline.

We were definitely expecting it, but, unfortunately, there's not a whole lot you can really do to prepare for it. We organized the forums as best we could, agreed on some more structured administration guidelines and bunkered up. I'm of the opinion that we probably should've been more active in the moderation process (at least for the first few weeks).

benny's idea of peaceful anarchy is, quite simply, deluded. It works when you have a group of people who are comfortable with a community and its guidelines, it doesn't work when you get massive influxes of new people who are unfamiliar with what is deemed generally acceptable by a community and will run rampant over the unspoken rules. You need structure to handle that.

I recall a different situation myself, but perhaps that just because I was one of the people investing so much time trying to help folks. It's very easy to condem others from up there in the peanut gallery.

Re: Talk Maemo: noise to signal ratio
 

Kathy, not to discredit your experience, but...

Seriously, any decent statistician will tell you there's just no way such a brief period can tell you anything. True, you could not have timed it better-- the N900 is indeed opening us up to some (ahem) interesting characters and I'm sure the other moderators are having a fun time with some of them. We expected that.

But it will even out. There's a high level of tolerance here but even that has limits. ;)

And don't think this forum is "all about developers". Yes, they are certainly well-represented, especially since the old talk forum merged with maemo.org, but we've always had a steady influx of casual users-- many of whom have gone on to become heavy testers, superusuers, bloggers, brainstormers, etc.

And even if they don't, you've seen for yourself the high interest in accomodating regular users who just need a decent introduction to Maemo devices. We've not been idle in that regard.

I would hope you'd give the N900 another chance. The delay is not a bad thing overall-- it will ensure product quality. And yours has been a very welcome signal amongst the noise.

So please: stick around. We need you.

:)

Re: Talk Maemo: noise to signal ratio
 

I realise that my experience has been very limited in this community. My point was that if even I've noticed a change, it must be more acute for someone who's been in a Nice Quiet Forum for months or years. It doesn't scare me - I've lived with far worse. ;)

No, you haven't. I think that's part of why I'm concerned. The Clever People have been incredibly welcoming and patient with me, and with some others. But as the goofball and 'noise' ratio rises, I can see patience starting to fail. And that worries me. GA's post that it was expected is reassuring.

I've said all along that the most I will do is cancel my preorder and look at alternatives. I find the pre-order date-change stuff (for which nokia is notorious) very stressful. So far three hours researching have failed to turn up any device that as nearly matches my needs as the n900 - and that's without considering the huge value I find in a good, supportive user/developer community.

And thanks ;)

Re: Talk Maemo: noise to signal ratio
 

And my point is your stay here has been so brief that you can't really consider any event or series of events to be a change. Too small a statistical sample to be of any significance. A spike at most, and again to be expected.

But anyway hopefully most if not all of your concerns have been allayed.