Re: Some hope for 770 owners...
 

The fact is Ari indicates a slight retreat from the original stance. That in and of itself is positive for the user and developer bases. Just like I said earlier: people were jumping too hard and too fast. Provide critical feedback, and wait for a response before going nuclear.

Re: Some hope for 770 owners...
 

I consider shutting down regularly without any apparent reason an outright crash, but that's probably just me. Opera on the 770 is not nearly as stable as it is on the desktop. I'm still hoping Minimo will eventually become usable enough that I can ditch Opera.

I don't know what IE7 is.

Re: Some hope for 770 owners...
 

What I'm saying, Karl (and I thought was very clear, sorry that it was not) is that I have never experienced that browser shutting down problem-- regularly or otherwise. Ever.

And IE7 is the commonly-used shorthand for Internet Explorer 7.

EDIT: I need to qualify the above statement: some websites with technology unsupported by the 770 have caused browser crash, as have network connectivity, other buggy programs and other factors. I just tend to eliminate those instances since they are not the fault of the browser in and of itself.

Re: Some hope for 770 owners...
 

I expect Opera to be as stable as Firefox.

Opera on the 770 disappears on me frequently - more than daily. Some people might not call that a crash, but I do.

The only way to keep Opera stable is to only have one window open at any one time.

Re: Some hope for 770 owners...
 

Texrat: it's worrying when a person in your position isn't aware of the instability of one of the key applications.

See, for example: https://maemo.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=743 - or also the behaviour where Opera suddenly decides that following links is much too much like hard work, and gives up doing anything but highlighting the link when you tap on it.

Hopefully the newer version and more memory on the N800 will have resolved some of these issues, but everytime I use Opera in a rush, I'm always worried it'll crash or just stop working at the most inconvenient moment.

Hence NetSurf.

Re: Some hope for 770 owners...
 

Yep it quits on me quite often. Sometimes (fairly frequently) I close one browser window with the close X button and all open browsers dissapear. At other times just clicking a link can cause all running Operas to dissapear. I also commonly experience browsers just freezing up - where you cannot click on any link (or rather you can but nothing happens - if you click 'hard' and choose 'open in new window' then the link works but the 'current' window is stuck/buggered.

Ajax simply doesn't work. In the current web environment, that is a glaring hole which renders the 'internet tablet' 1/2 useless.

As its an 'internet tablet' we're supposed to use stuff like Google Calendar rather than local PIM apps, however most of the on-line 'apps' like this simply don't bloody well work in the current version of Opera.

Maybe I exaggerated when I said it was buggier than IE - to be honest I don't use IE any more, FF all the way! It is buggier than I /remember/ IE to be! :)

Re: Some hope for 770 owners...
 

My statements are being misconstrued.

For one, I haven't revealed (and can't) the nature of my involvement but it's a role I guarantee most people here won't accurately guess. The nature of my role has me focused on highly specific areas to the point that I can't spend much time on the things that are near and dear to the developers (but trust me, I wish I could!). So I'm out of the loop in some ways due to time constraints.

Second, as I said, I'm personally not experiencing that Opera flakiness. So the question becomes: why not? I'm running the same OS. I'm running many of the same apps. In fact, I tend to install some apps you guys won't see, one in particular that is very alpha and prone to wreaking havoc on the device. So there have to be contributing factors that just aren't present in my configuration. What they are I have no idea at this moment.

Re: Some hope for 770 owners...
 

I'm with you on this one. I found my 770 pretty stable and had very few issues with Opera. (I only upgraded to 2006 a few weeks ago and was very annoyed to find horizontal scroll bars though! and found it would often close all windows instead of one after the upgrade).

I'm guessing one reason I found it stable was whilst I used it for web access daily I almost always used it for the same subset of pages. It was never really used for general surfing.

So lots of forums, the BBC site and the internet movie database about summed it up. I guess I mainly use sites that don't do naugthy things to browsers!

Re: Some hope for 770 owners...
 

That's an important statement.

The main sites my 770 (and the N800) experience problems on are online gaming sites that my kids like to frequent. They wreak all kinds of havoc due to the tech, popups, spyware probably designed for Windows, etc. I don't need those sites and so I avoid them. Sites like this one, CNN, hotmail, ebay et al give me zero problems. I'm sure that's a factor in my Opera experience.

Re: Some hope for 770 owners...
 

I don't quite understand why upgrading (or not upgrading) Opera on the 770 should be of importance. It's only an application. If certain programs will not be available for the 770, there will be reasons for this, technical or legal. More important: As we're using a relatively open platform, you can still use another browser if the currently installed version opera isn't what you need. Same goes for Flash, Skype and everything else. (People who want a vendor to take care of each and every aspect of their computing experience should seriously consider Apple. I don't want this kind of paternalism.)

From my point of view, Nokia isn't responsible for application development on the 770/N800. It's nice that they do something in this area, but I don't expect them to. I see Nokia as the company that made the hardware. Period.

What they should do, though: As long as the actual operating system isn't fully open and free, it's up to them to support and enhance it. After all, by using closed source elements in it, they made us depend on their work. So, yes, I do expect them to bring all those low-level changes to the 770.
Of course, I'd rather have them open source all of ITOS2007 (except for the apps mentioned above, but incuding all drivers/libraries/...), throw it at the community with an evil grin and say: "Now show us how you make this run on a 770". This is the way it should work.