Re: Heads up: new users may be coming
 

Well, a couple of months in, I've seen exactly what I figured would happen. The surge of N800 development is nowhere near what it was for the 770, the 770 is all but neglected, and both tablets have never achieved the greatness that the 770 did in the ensuing months after it's launch.

Everything seems half-assed though there are exceptions. Canola was done by people who 'got it'. It was polished, not left at the command line because that was 'good enough'. I realize everything's voluntary and some of the issues are the nature of the beast when dealing with OSS, but there's got to be someone who's anal retentive enough to take the UI and hildonize it even if the original author has run out of steam or has to address other commitments.

Re: Heads up: new users may be coming
 

As michaelalanjones observed: "You know, that's the thing about embedded devices ... they continue to work". The 770 does what Nokia designed it to do very very well. Any additional apps and functionality that the community contributes are strictly 'bonus' material, provided for free.

It is easy to lose sight of the fact that the userbase and hence developer base for the device is a tiny fraction of that for x86 linux PCs. It's easy to forget that for most of computing and open-source history, unpolished UIs and incomplete implementations were normal, especially when the given userbase was below a million.

Maemo and the scratchbox environment make porting and writing applications really easy and fun (otherwise i wouldn't have gotten anywhere), but few real programmers are going to approach development for these devices with a professional focus, especially when Maemo hasn't yet taken off as a cross-platform tablet OS.

This is not to discount Hedgecore's lamentations; I too would like to see good developers flock to the Nokia, and i'm somewhat surprised at how many people (even in the linux community) haven't heard of the products. But let's not lose sight of the fact that these are pioneering products - a lot of people haven't woken up to the possibilities they open-up at this price point.

For me the greatest thing about these devices is that they are PDAs for which even 'bears of little brain' like myself can actually write and port usable programs. I'm someone who hasn't managed to release or port any* software in his whole life, yet the N770 has inspired me to do so -- it's been more fun, and easy, than I could have imagined.

Thanks, Nokia!

Re: Heads up: new users may be coming
 

The quality of the applications on Internet Tablets is very, very poor - they're full of bugs which are never addressed which sets a general tone for the devices and prevents them from being taken seriously. In my opinion the apps shipped with the device should be excellent quality or not shipped at all - the sub-standard dross (Email, RSS, general lack of integration and UI consistency) would not be allowed on other platforms. The total lack of control that Nokia have over the browser shows a lack of ambition - Nokia should replace the browser with one of their own (Minimo, S60, whatever) which would allow them to drive the platform forward rather than wait for Opera.

Nothing about the software shipped with the tablets screams of quality, and it's expecting an awful lot from third-party developers for them to ship quality products built on such a shaky foundation. Canola is an excellent product but is often flawed and limited by underlying problems with the stock Nokia firmware. Same goes for mplayer.

Nokia customer support for Internet Tablets is a farce. The promised but apparently now "not going to happen" support for 770s is an outrage. The missing-in-action accessories (the N800 case? Where's the freaking case?) smacks of ineptitude - they remove the hard cover but are incapable of offering any alternative screen protection within a reasonable time frame.

"Half-assed" is being kind to Nokia. I'm a big fan of what they are trying to achieve but even I am slowly losing my patience. Between now and the "N900" they need to step it up, or frankly just give it up and not bother.

Re: Heads up: new users may be coming
 

Milhouse,

I feel compelled to raise questions in response to your comments:

I can only speak for the 770 (and this is a 770 thread), but since upgrading to latest IT2006 i haven't had any Nokia app crash or even behave strangely. What bugs are you talking about? Could it be that your post is full of allegations which are never supported which sets a general tone that prevents them from being taken seriously?

So you would prefer to pay a third-party company a lot of money for applications of 'excellent quality', developed for a new OS in very limited time. OK then: Divide the software development costs by the number of end-users of the app and then divide that by the fraction of people who would actually pay for (rather than pirate) the software to get the marginal cost, per app, that your proposal entails.

How are these 'sub standard dross' for bundled applications? Can you name for us a free application bundle - developed in-house for a comparable device in a comparable timeframe - that are 'excellent quality' by your ineffable standards? What do you mean by 'lack of integration' and what UI elements are inconsistent, exactly?

The total lack of analysis that you have provided shows a lack of cognition - How is Minimo, S60 or "whatever" better?

Nothing about the comments contained in your post screams of quality, and it's expecting an awful lot from third-party developers like myself to understand what you mean by 'such a shaky foundation'. How is Canola 'often flawed' but not always? What do you imagine to be the underlying problems with the stock Nokia firmware? What causes you displeasure with mplayer? I find it to be one of the most flexible and powerful media players ever made, and with the accelerated YUV/RGB it just 'screams' on my 770.

What encounters with Nokia support lead you to call it a farce? I own a 770 and just installed the latest maemo2.1 released in November 2006. That's a free, current OS upgrade that has made my device rock-solid.

Here is your first concrete point, and I agree that the n800 would have been better with a cover or a case. But if you decide to purchase a product without a case, you will get a product without a case. Do you also publically slam the manufacturer if you buy a jacket without a hood? Did Nokia falsely advertise the 800 as having a cover?

Comparing my 770, where over 90% of things are 'right', against your post in which over 90% of your claims are unsupported, I wonder whom to respect more; Nokia, who develops a new OS and creates an entirely new category of low cost Internet tablet, or someone who doesn't 'bother' to create a constructive, cogent critique?

To be taken seriously, a critique or analysis of a product must reflect some understanding of the field; it must compare like products based on similar technology being sold at a comparable price point.

To not be taken seriously, a critique or analysis can compare bundled apps for a new OS on a niche product with a small user base to high price commercial software, or to the best-of-breed open-source software from the PC world, or to some thoughtless users perfect personal fantasy wish-ware.

Arnim

Re: Heads up: new users may be coming
 

I don't really want to be part of a flame war, but have you people noticed that there IS actually screen protector film covering the screen.

So, in case your device is scratched, you can always replace that film with a new screen protector.

The film is of very poor quality though, but, anyway, it is there, nevertheless.

Re: Heads up: new users may be coming
 

This could get ugly. :eek:

Re: Heads up: new users may be coming
 

Go and read up on the OS 2006 AND OS 2007 bugs against Email, RSS, Browser, Media Player etc. in Bugzilla. Just because you aren't aware of the bugs doesn't mean they don't exist, or that I'm making them up.

I've paid $400 for the device - I expect at the very least "good" quality applications, applications that are fit for purpose which is definately not what can be said about the Email client or the RSS news reader. Opera is OK, but has a number of flaws that will not be fixed because Nokia don't control the browser on *their* INTERNET TABLET device. Surely if there is one application that Nokia should have total control over, it's the browser. As for UI incosistencies, read the web review of the Internet Tablet UI by Sean Luke.

You appear very happy with mediocre and sub-standard Nokia applications, that's fantastic, I'm very happy for you. I simply believe Nokia should do better, and the vast number of bugs in Bugzilla tend to bear this out - go read it. If you want to know about my dealings with Nokia UK support, read the forum - I won't repeat it here.

I knew the N800 didn't come with a case, but Nokia have been promising a case accessory for 3 months - where is it? You seem to have misunderstood the point I'm making, perhaps in your haste to respond. Try reading it again.

As for the rest of the post, I don't have the time to respond but it's clear you aren't reading this forum or Maemo bugzilla, otherwise you would be better informed.

Re: Heads up: new users may be coming
 

It appears one of Nokia strengths is also one of its perceived weaknesses.

Let me start by saying I bought my Nokia 770 (and n800) to do a specific job; replace my laptop when I travel. I need simple applications; email, web, remote access (to our business systems) and a way of giving presentations to customers. The nokia does all this and fits in my pocket: Job done!

Now compare it with other platforms (windows mobile for example) and you discover its amazing strength and weakness. And as an aside you also become aware of the difference between the Microsoft and Nokia approach to the market.

I used to use an xda 2i. It worked well for email, was limited for web browsing and useless for remote access (even though it came with the remote desktop software). But from the day I got it out of the box until the day I put it in a cupboard it ran the same software and had the same limitations! There was a small range of third party software product available - all of them over priced for the functionality offered.

So to the utopia that is my n770 and then n800. The email client is no doubt weak but claws-mail isn't! A free, stable, easy to install alternative - oh yes and fast! The standard web browser is fine 90% of the time but can't access our company intranet because of the windows security but minimo does - no problem...oh yes and it was free, stable and easy to install. (I think I can see a pattern)...RDesktop (version 0.1 worked for me....version 0.4 is much improved)...VNC (a little messing with the first releases but they worked, the current version on my n800 is excellent).

The point is simple: n800 is a very diverse platform and can be moulded to the needs of the individual. My requirements are the next persons requirements and what nokia has achieved is to build a trully portable platform (it still fits in my pocket!), with good battery life AND made it so that people can extend the platform with software.

So what to criticise? Well I can understand; the standard email client and web browser have limitations which really give a very poor perception - and beyond that video stopping after 20 minutes or so was another limitation (now fixed on my n800).

If this was a Microsoft device the platform would not exist because commercially it is too hard to control. Who is the typical n770/n800 owner? What do they want to do with the device? What is important to them? These questions are hard to answer. So Nokia have simply thrown out a rather "unfocused" device and said to people "See what you can make of this". As I result my expectations of the n770/n800 may be vastly different from the next persons; who may have even more different expectations than the next person.

The price of this freedom is organic development. Which means that the software I would like to see developed might happen very slowly but the software you want happens quickly - for example I have no interest in Canola! (It does sound like a pasta dish to me).

Re: Heads up: new users may be coming
 

Despite what others may think, I do actually applaud Nokia for what they have achieved so far :) Which is all the more reason why I'm so aggrieved when they let down the excellent hardware with such mediocre software offerings such as the email client, RSS news reader, media player etc. Sure, these applications can all be replaced by free, open source alternatives but should it be necessary, as it currently is? The device should be supplied with tip-top applications, open source or closed, that work well together and give a very positive user experience. The unfortunate truth is, the standard applications fail by a wide margin to give a positive user experience.

It's the rough edges that are present in the built-in applications (and still present in the N800, which is essentially a v2 product ) that let the device down, and which need addressing in the long term, whether by rewriting or replacing with OSS alternatives.

My view is - and in the last couple of posts, this is mainly where I'm coming from - that the future Internet Tablets should be usable by people like my Dad who know absolutely nothing about OSS alternatives. Within reason, the out-of-box Internet Tablet experience should not require a new user to consider OSS alternatives to replace or augment the default applications. Unfortunately, OSS is currently an absolute necessity for new users. I only hope that by v3 (the "N900") Nokia will be closer to the holy grail. :)

Re: Heads up: new users may be coming
 

There are some good points interspersed amongst the tension-laden remarks. ;)

IMO the linux community at large (Mozilla particularly) should be behind the 770 and N800 full force, as was stated in the recent inquirer review. So to to that extent, let's all do our part by redirecting the energy expended into debate here toward lobbying that community to step up and embrace the devices that best exemplify their goals. I'm gonna ramp up my own efforts.

Let's go!