Re: Ask the Council!
 

I think it's necessary but undesirable. It's basically giving Nokia carte blanche to bugger off.

Being "mentioned" is meaningless. Where has it been discussed on TMO? Where are the IRC logs? Have you learned nothing about actual open development?

Is this mechanism the same as has been done for Diablo?

the .deb package format has tons of "features" to address this sort of thing -- dpkg-divert, update-alternatives, etc. It is probably worth using them.

The services I'm specifically talking about are Ovi Files, Ovi Calendar, and all of the other services that either never worked with the n900, have stopped working with the n900, or have been dropped altogether.

I know specifically what's broken. I'll collect filesystem info and post it somewhere.

I'm going to take a step back from this conversation now, and see if you can piece together the logic of throwing up two-line posts on some third-party domain nobody's ever heard of. If that's your idea of open, you've got the wrong end of the stick.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Stenny,

What exactly are you so mad about? The fact that... the community is building a community SSU? Are you offended we didn't ask you personally for help?

You do realise that this is something that has been in the works for a very, very long time. I'm not saying we've been working our asses off every second of it, but I honestly believe we've been doing things when we could, as we could.

MWKN is hardly a website that nobody's ever heard of. It is most probably the single most concise source of general information regarding Maemo (and starting to take MeeGo hints as well). Upon every issue, a sticky thread that announces is posted. I started that stickyfying tradition (when I was a moderator), and I'm happy to see it continued, even after having left TMO quite some time ago.

If you had taken the time to search *a tiny bit*, you would've found that there is quite a bit of information available.

Googling "maemo SSU" yields one link to the Community SSU Notes, another to MWKN, a link to the maemo-developers ML discussing the community SSU and information regarding the #maemo-ssu IRC channel.

Googling "maemo community ssu" yields even more interesting results.

In other words: do not blame people trying to make a difference because you're not involved. Get involved.

Well, tough. In my case, I don't expect anything from Nokia anymore. From what I can tell, they've basically started EOL processes with regards to Maemo, and unless MeeGo steps up, the N900 is SOL.

We've never said we were experts regarding the Deb package format. I'm sure everyone would be happy to be pointed in the right direction.

If you think that's the way to talk to anyone, let alone a community member, let alone one of the most respected members of this community, then you're definitely not worth the time I invested in this post. Nor anyone else's time, for that matter.

Edit: Sorry to the mods for posting where I'm not supposed to. Rather than deleting, would it be possible to split the latest page or so that has diverted onto Community SSU trollfest into its own thread?

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU
 

This thread has been created from posts that were formerly a sub-thread within "Ask the Council!" Please continue discussion of questions and issues surrounding the development of the Fremantle community SSU here.

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU
 

Okay, to be honest, I've never heard of mwkn.net until now either. Given Matan's contributions in the areas he has contributed, I think it's quite telling that he didn't know of it, or at least the SSU discussions, either.

HOWEVER, I personally understand why I am out of the loop. I'm neither useful to a serious SSU project, other than perhaps on the off chance that my verbal diarrhea provides a good idea here/there, and I haven't taken too much time to look.

So the question is, are the people *****ing actually *****ing because it's something they tried to keep themselves in the loop on, or because they are so great of contributors that they had good reason to expect someone would contact them about it as it got off the ground, OR is this just people turning their surprise at just finding out about this into anger because, well, they're humans and humans have this remarkable propensity for irrational anger?

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU
 

From my observations on past behavior. The third option, and then some. . . .

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Relax friend :) this IRC resturant is open 24/7, go in and discuss all you want mate.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

As you'll know that a lot of discussion happened in the thread "Fremantle Community SSU" on maemo-developers (a better home for in-depth technical discussion about the vagaries of HAM), which you participated in. Many of your questions then were about policy - and, as stated above, this hasn't yet been discussed (let alone decided).

OTTOMH, some of the big policy questions to be decided are:

1. Who ultimately owns the CSSU?
   • Council?
2. How will included improvements be decided? (Matan)
   • Will there be an inclusive policy - every improvement that someone is willing to work on will be included - or will there be a gatekeeper that will decide what to include? (Matan)
   • Is the scope limited to improving packages which are included by Nokia in the OS; or should it grow to include "useful" stuff?
   • Should wholesale replacement of apps (such as Media Player) be done with open source, feature- & UI-compatible versions; if available?
3. How will testing be organised?
   • Positive
   • Negative
   • Regression
   • Installation from scratch
   • Upgrade from previous version
4. How will it be advertised?
5. How will it be supported?
   • Bugzilla
   • IRC?
   • Forum

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU
 

I suggest that anyone interested in the Maemo community reads Planet Maemo. MWKN is syndicated there (as well as TMO, forum.meego.com, Twitter, mailing lists, ...). You can read more background on why I thought MWKN was necessary in the wiki page (and the corresponding threads on Talk and on maemo-community).

See above. Matan has been involved in several SSU discussions, including here on TMO and on maemo-developers. I'm sure he didn't mean to imply he wasn't aware of the SSU work.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

That's a question for Mohammad; however, at the moment, I don't believe there's a kernel installed. You can see the packages in their gitorious home: http://gitorious.org/community-ssu - although I'm not quite sure that includes everything (e.g. there's no Modest in there with the proper quoting patches included from Bugzilla)

There's been some discussion (including with Nokians at the conference) about including a kernel. kernel-power is an obvious candidate, but without pulling in any of the settings utilities etc. Whether or not that includes the CPU speed bug fix, I don't know. As kernel-power can be installed for numerous reasons, I'm strongly of the opinion that the various user-friendly tools which allow overclocking need to display prominent warnings when exceeding 600MHz, even if they don't pull in kernel-power themselves.

Indeed, dpkg-divert is used in community-ssu-enabler to put a shim around /usr/libexec/apt-worker.

The problem with upgrading the Nokia components from Extras, and why an SSU is required, is that Application Manager (i.e. HAM) will not upgrade packages from different package "domains" which have different trust levels.

One of the primary tasks of community-ssu-enabler is to add the repository at an appropriate trust level, so that HAM will allow it to upgrade "system" packages. (In addition to installing the repo and GPG key).

Re: Ask the Council!
 

I've put that list on the wiki, but wikis are bad places to have discussions. I'd suggest one of maemo-developers, maemo-community or talk.maemo.org would be best.