Re: WhoGo Maps
 

OK, let's move this discussion over to https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=97823

Would you mind to

* paste a screenshot of OSM Scout Server log showing requested URLs

* check which version of OSM Scout Server do you run. If its not the latest, please update at OpenRepos

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

WhoGo maps testet on Jolla 1 with vector tiles. SFOS 2.1.4.14. Everything works OK. No crash. I also tested mapbox-sfos 10.6.1. this version crash when using pitch or bearing. mapbox-sfos 10.15.1 crash upon start.

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

Since older demos (mapbox-sfos) were C++ apps with Mapboxgl linked, it indicates that some chages in MapboxGL are responsible for better stability. Great news!

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

Another bug: places search seems to work strangely, i.e. it doesn't prioritize locations near me. I can search for "Starbucks" and it returns 10 results scattered across the USA, but not the one two miles away.

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

Okay as it seems we are listing here, another oddity that seems similar to taixoz's (which really bothered me):
when entering a navigation target in search make sure you enter street before city like
'street x, city'

If you enter like
'city street x' you get no or strange results.

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

@taixzo: normal search does not convey location information to the search engine. To make the location count, you have to use "nearby venues" search. Its available either in the main menu (then searches next to current location) or via POI when clicking on it and selecting nearby. In that search, "Type" can be either a name or a type.

When compared to the plain search, algorithm is different. In nearby, you essentially have to apply spatial filter first and then go through objects in the database trying to match them to the search string. For OSM Scout Server, that means that I have to hope that there are not too many objects in the radius of interest.

@peterleinchen: I can speak only regarding OSM Scout Server, but probably its done similar in the other search engines.

When you get search string, it has to be parsed to form some kind of hierarchy that can be searched for. For that, OSM Scout Server preprocesses the string using libpostal (https://github.com/openvenues/libpostal) - an impressive software lib that does its best to guess from this short string what is what. [Recommended longish reading: BLOG posts https://machinelearnings.co/statisti...p-b9d573e6cc86 and https://medium.com/@albarrentine/sta...2-80405b988718 ; if don't want to read, see animated GIFs]. To guess what was what, libpostal also uses relative location in the string that should be in accordance with the norms of the language that you selected for parsing. Hence, its important to put it in natural manner for your culture. For us, its frequently

Notice, it has to distinguish it from

Hence, when you put city in front, it may think its house name instead of the city. I actually print the parsing results in the logs of OSM Scout Server, so you could check it there.

After getting hierarchy, my job is relatively simple - I have to match normalized strings and see if they are a part of any available hierarchy. This is relatively fast process due to the manner I store the data.

For libpostal, commas don't matter. However, to assist the users, I added a primitive parser. This parser forms search string in a manner:

Essentially, it forms hierarchy by strings separated by commas. So, when libpostal fails, you could try to use this notation and see if it helps.

I am planning to work on the search component soon. I have to update to the new libpostal (we use a version that is more than 1 year old), train on country-split data, and so on. Hopefully, I can make it better.

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

I took both the Jolla 1 and the PhotonQ (the two phones on which the GL-related crash was found), for a few km walk with WhoGo Maps.

TL;DR : no more GL crashes, So WhoGo is compatible with all phones. But the memory could still be too low.


So, the configs are:
* Jolla 1 : freshly update to 2.1.4.14, with lastest WhoGo from openrepos and OSMScoutServer with latest maps for only one region of France
* PhotonQ : 2.1.3.7 from xda, and here also latest WhoGo/OSMScoutServer, with maps downloaded today. It is running nemo UI, but didn't seem to affect the outcome here.

I don't have anymore the mapbox-sfos test app we used last time (and you removed the repository) so I can't compare with this, but the "mapbox-gl-qml.qml" from October the 13th doesn't crash anymore.

Using WhoGo maps at home I could not crash them either. I then took them for a walk (about 1 hour), playing with one and the other successively, sometime routing to my correct destination, sometimes routing elsewhere to see how the live rerouting was working.

It worked quite correctly for the first half of the trip. Then I started to see some performances problems, probably related to memory usage.
Both had lipstick crash once and restart, but the app survived.
I had the OOM kill some app that were opened on the Jolla (one messanging app that I didn't close, and gPodder that I was listening to).
On the PhotonQ, at some point the app became unresponsive. I later found it closed.

I should have a 1h trip by car this week. I will try to use it to make some tests with a freshly rebooted Jolla1, and see if a "normal" usage of setting one route and following it correctly through a 100km leads to memory problems too or not.


Anyway, the original problem is solved, and WhoGo maps looks really good !
A big thank you to rinigus and otsaloma for this huge and great work !

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

@rinigus
thanks for explanation and links, I only made one of them ;) but impressing.

I somehow was used to put city in front. No idea why...
And yes I was/am using OSM scout maps and search.
So conclusion is to enter adresses in the country specific way! Right?

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

Yes, its a long read, but impressive. I am very happy that @otsaloma pointed it in this direction - it was/is great fun to see it work.

As for conclusion, yes, do it as if you put it on a letter envelope (nb! postal codes not supported by osm scout server, at least not yet).

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

i couldn't find out if mapqest open or osrm considers traffic for navigation or rerouting, do you know anything? i just found out that mapquest business uses that

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

I'm quite sure they don't. MapQuest Open is just plain open data (which traffic is not) and somewhat deprecated as well, it's not being developed. And OSRM is just the demo server, it's not a proper service at all.

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

Thanks, that was my problem too. Like nthn, I would also prefer a vector option being the default. There is no future for raster.

So I have played with WhoGo on my Jolla 1 for a while and I can definitely say that I like it. I still need to put it through some proper test though.

I have my first question. Here in the UK, postcodes are the way of providing directions. Even a car park in the middle of a forest (for example, for a popular land mark) has its own postcode. Which profile knows postcodes? "Recommended for vector tiles maps" it ain't.

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

I am preparing OSM Scout Server version that has changed default and more meaningful error message when lacking maps for the selected backends. Maybe then we can focus here on WhoGo Maps :)

As for postal codes, OSM Scout Server doesn't support it. I don't know how to implement it exactly, would have to think about it. Corresponding issue has been opened: https://github.com/rinigus/geocoder-nlp/issues/38

I am sure that some online services do support it. Which ones and how much, don't know

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

Thanks for the reply on postcodes. I am sure the postcodes were listed when I swiched profiles and was clearing the old files, but I do not remember having actually tried a lookup using them so cannot tell whether they worked.

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

check the following link, it has mappings of id,postcode,latitude,longitude:

http://https://www.freemaptools.com/...de-lat-lng.htm

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

Fixed link:

https://www.freemaptools.com/downloa...de-lat-lng.htm

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

This is a great find, I've never seen it before. Just did a check of 5 postcodes I know off the top of my head - they were all in the database and the lat/long were all correct.

Just wanted to echo pichlo and say postcode search to set a destination is essential for navigating in the UK, so this would be a great feature to implement if possible.

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

I continued testing with the Jolla 1.

Made 2 trips by car, each around 1 hour and covering 100km, mostly following the highway. Normal usage (set the destination, and follow the instruction, not constantly interacting with it). Didn't closed all opened applications, but they were not heavy.

Everything worked perfectly !

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

Continuing in the tune of silly hashtags, #MeToo!

Except one thing. For the life of me, I could not get a single word out of the damn thing. The rendering was perfect, the rotations smooth, I even made a few deliberate detours to test the automatic rerouting, all worked fone. But - no voice instructions. What am I missing?

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

Did you install a TTS engine like Mimic (openrepos)? Follow the instructions in the description of WhoGo maps on openrepos

For me, WhoGo maps works perfectly including voice instructions. I even like the name WhoGo maps ;-)

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

@pichlo,
did you activate voice.navigation at all? ;)
I remember I struggled with it, too.
The activation tick marker is a bit 'hidden' (when using landscape mode which I do always in car) inside the navigation option screen, with begin/reroute/clear :)

It was mentioned also here or on the PoorMaps thread just a few days/weeks ago.

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

TBH, I can't remember if it was even available. I have now installed mimic as suggested by JoOpen and it is available now, albeit not during active routing. You need to pause, activate and resume. It still does not do anything but that, I assume, is because I am not moving. Iwill try it on my commute tomorrow morning.

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

Voice navigation is off by default to avoid a loud surprise when just testing or preparing. And it can only be enabled, while navigation is paused due to some technicalities, but that should actually be changed, it has bothered me as well, I'll see if it can be done.

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

I am curious if the road speed limits are available in the data in the OSM Server maps and if it is something that is already or could be retrieved from WhoGo maps ?

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

There is quite powerful map matching interface in Valhalla which I am planning to test with WhoGo Maps. Among other things, it shows current speed limit if its known. There are many issues with speed limits (some depend on a season and so on). However, I am tempted to try and see how well it works together with snapping position to roads.

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

OK, so I put WhoGo through the paces and I must say, I am absolutely delighted. I'd like to emphasize that I have been using it exclusively in offline mode, with no SIM card in the phone, and it performed as expected in all situations. The routing is spot on, auto-rerouting works well and kicks in at just the right time when I take a diversion, the animations (tilt, rotation) are smooth and reflect the directions just right. Following the hints I received yesterday, the voice instructions work great too. Even the battery drain was better than expected: from 100% down to 71% after a one hour's drive yesterday and from 92% to 72% after about 45 minutes this morning.,

All in all, an excellent piece of work, on a par with some commercial alternatives.

Of course, it would not be me if I did not find some, let's just call them "potentials for improvement". Quite a lot of them related to the voice instructions. Some really trivial, others not so. Some essential, others maybe "would be nice to have", but not that crucial. Quite a lot of them are advanced features I cannot really expect from a product someone develops on his own, in his spare time.

So, here we go:

• As already mentioned, UK postcodes would be a very welcome addition. Having said that, I have used a commercial product that did not have a full postcode lookup and I had to use other methods, such as GPS coordinates (if available).
• It would be nice to have an option to save a location as a POI. For example, when you are on holiday, saving the hotel as the base would be quite useful.
• I am not sure you could do anything about this, but I find the roads rendered too narrow. I can only expand them when zooming in, at the expense of, well, having to zoom in, i.e. losing the big picture. And even then they are waaaaay too narrow. I would like them at least twice as wide, if not four or even five times. They will not be to scale but that does not matter.
• In fact, everything is far too small. I had the phone stuck with a sucker on the windscreen and could just about see the map and icon with the next manoeuvre and the distance, but not much else. The current speed, for example, is microscopic, totally unreadable at a distance between the driver's seat and the windscreen.
• Talking about the current speed, the speed limit info would be a welcome addition.
• This may be too much to ask, but speed camera locations would be nice too ;)
• Back on the topic of things on the screen, I have noit figured out what the number under the current speed is supposed to represent. At first I thought it was the elevation, but that seems unlikely, given it shows figures like 3.3 yd.
• The voice instructions need some getting used to. I was at first confused with "enter the blurghburbhump and mumph the hunghxit", which, as I later figured out, was supposed to be, "enter the roundabout and take the third exit". After 10-15 minutes, I got used to it, but still confused with "rarautaut". It took about four times until I grokked that it was, "re-route found".
  Some of that confusion might be caused by the differences in accents. For example, "route" sounds like "root" in British English and "raut" in American. The way the thing pronounces "roundabout" is quite funny too.
• The voice instructions confuse yards and miles. As in, "in 700 miles, turn left", when the screen shows 0.4 miles, i.e. 700 yards.
• Some instructions sound a bit odd. For example, "continue for sixteen point miles". The word "point" is redundant. Another one, "four tenths of a mile". It may be cultural, but "zero point four miles" would sound more natural to me.
• In countries where you drive on the left, the roundabout icon is drawn the wrong way (see picture).
  
  Attachment 39852
• It would be nice to have the number of the exit somehow incorporated in the icon. For example, in the middle. Roundabouts are very common in the UK so this would be a nice addition.
• Some instructions a way too verbose. "Take exit 4 on the left toward A404 etc", as in the picture, is way too much information. It covers too much of the screen and takes too long via voice. A simple "take the exit" would be perfectly OK.
  
  Attachment 39853
• Sometimes, the instructions are a bit misleading, for example when an approach to the junction is a gentle curve in the direction opposite to actual target of the manoeuvre (see picture). Or, similarly, when the manoeuvre ends up being quite a sharp turn but the instructions suggest a gentle curve, because the approach begins gently. I have had a commercial satnav that did the same and I understand that it is not an easy nut to crack, but for example TomTom has managed.
  
  Attachment 39854
• I said earlier that the animations are smooth and so they are, but the little symbol that shows your position keeps jumping forward and back. It looks like it is moving along the map and when too far, then the whole map including the symbol is jerked back. It is not too distracting but noticeable.
• I would prefer the ETA more visible, current speed much larger and included in the same area, and the blurb like "enter the roundabout and take the 4th exit" removed completely, but that might be only me. Perhaps making it configurable might be the way to go.
• In the landscape orientation, please consider moving the black info area from the top to the side.
• Please consider a wider range of map scale in Preferences. 0.5 to 2.0 seems more logical than 0.5 to 1.5.
• Some commercial satnavs display a progress bar, showing how far into the journey you are. WhoGo have that on the Navigation screen, which is nice, but including it in the main screen would be even nicer.

Phew, that was a lot! As I said, most of it is not really important, merely a "would be nice to have". I am currently completely out of cash and it is still only the start of the month with at least two payments still pending, so I am not in the position to send you a big donation, but rest assured I will as soon as I can. Please take whatever I am sending now as a token, just to save you in my PayPal list ;)

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

I'm also experiencing something like this. I live in Milan, Italy. No matter which address I try to search, nor how I format the search string, I never obtain an exact match as a result. Only points of interests with a similar name.

When I search for my home address, for example, I only get the various bus/tram stops (that have the name of my street in their name). I can't get the directions to point to my house exactly. I can workaround this with my house since I know which bus stop is the nearest, but when I need to go in places I don't know this becomes a problem.

To further comment on the search string formatting discussion, here in Italy addresses are usually formatted like this:

Street name, civic number, city

Which is different from the suggested

civic number, street name, city

I have no idea how this should be implemented, but I think each country's "standard" address formatting method should be taken into account somehow.

I'm hopeful I'll be able to make a "real" test soon, while actually traveling, but I will join the choir of people impressed by the constant progress on the WhoGo / OSM server combo. Once the address search function gets more reliable, I think I will no longer need an android solution (even though I still like Here WeGo quite a lot).

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

clearly, it's time for 5.5 incher then :D

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

Haha, very funny. That's exactly what I need, to slap an even bigger thing on my windscreen. With the result that the text will increase by what, 10%? When the bare minimum to make a difference would be more like 400%?

Fail. Next clever suggestion?


Incidentally, I did not want to post again, but now that have been forced to...

Some commercial satnavs have a nice feature to automatically zoom in on the approach to a junction. This would be a nice feature and would render my request to make the roads wider unnecessary. Just sayin' ;)

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

I would actually disagree on this point. In some interchanges, particularly cloverleafs where exits may be spaced very closely together, speaking the actual exit to take is very useful.

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

Fair enough. There are situations calling for complex maneuvres ("take the exit, then turn right"). I would err on the side of brevity. When in doubt, a quick glance at the screen should clarify.

But there is no pleasing everyone. I found it irritating when my (commercial) satnav gave me three warnings before the maneuvre. My other half complained about the exact opposite, one warning is not enough :D

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

I'm with you on that, those that talk to much are annoying and sometimes too confusing. Google maps is perfect example of that.
"Take exit 4 on the left toward A404 etc"
Take exit 4 is enough.
On the left really makes no sense to be there at all since all exits are on the left.

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

libpostal (used by geocoder-nlp in OSM Scout Server) is expected to parse addresses in your natural way (Street name, civic number, city). The second option is a workaround.

Please add an issue at for your search troubles when using OSM Scout Server at https://github.com/rinigus/geocoder-nlp/issues . When filing an issue, please provide example search string, screenshot from OSM Scout Server on how it parsed it (switch on full logging for that in Settings), and expected result.

I'll be working on updating libpostal in near future and then I can look into it.


PS: @pichlo's analysis does warrant longer reply, at least I would like to outline my POV on the issues. it would just take some time to get to it.

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

I suppose the best option, if possible, would be to make this a configurable option in settings ("verbosity level"?)

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

Thanks pichlo for the detailed feedback.

Many of the things discussed relate to OSM Scout or online APIs, which from my point of view just are how they are, and some nice to have details, I'll just pick a couple things to reply to.

This has come up before and my opinion remains that I don't want to show unreliable data, in particular showing a higher speed limit than actual. The bar on that data is high. At least OpenStreetMap speed limit data is not good enough.

That's the positioning accuracy. Maybe I could try adding a diameter symbol "⌀" there? I know many map apps render a circle around the position icon and that would be possible now with Mapbox GL, but I don't like covering the map with such pulsating junk, it makes looking at maps indoors unpleasant.

It should be recentering at same frequency as GPS sends positioning data, and for me it has seemed smooth, but might vary by device? It is technically though as you describe, I'll check if some reordering or animation skipping could make it effectively so that the position icons stays put and the map moves.

Ah, OK, yes, will consider. It was meant for finetuning in case the DPI detection is a bit off, but maybe if you look at the screen from afar, you'll need a bit more and that should be doable.

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

I have shuffled replies in accordance to the part which they correspond to. There is a mix of issues / improvements in terms of which software they are expected to go to. So, I collected them accordingly. Sorry for long reply, but you raised many interesting concerns.

Search enhancements

Postcodes, while we have now the database linking UK postcode to lat,lon, for search, I would have to relate it to object. I suspect that the expectation is to get also description of what you have behind that postcode. Bit tricky to do it correctly and I will have to think and see how others are doing it (libosmscout has some support for postcodes, I believe). Corresponding issue is https://github.com/rinigus/geocoder-nlp/issues/38 , feel free to chip in data/links/ideas.


WhoGo Maps "nice to have"

https://github.com/otsaloma/whogo-maps/issues/3

WhoGo Maps / Mapbox GL style for car navigation

I would like to see enhancements in WhoGo Maps for car navigation as well. There are several aspects that would have to be addressed.

The road size and text will have to be changed in corresponding Mapbox GL map style. The corresponding project for OSM Scout Server maps is https://github.com/rinigus/mapbox-gl-styles [issue https://github.com/rinigus/mapbox-gl-styles/issues/10]. Specific ideas, such as style changes, which POIs have to be emphasized (gas stations and such) are welcome. There is similar issue for bicycle-oriented style. For Cartago online, @otsaloma maintains it at https://github.com/otsaloma/cartago-styles. Styles need work, but also ideas on how / what to change.

In WhoGo Maps, you choose the style via Maps. If we get many specific case oriented styles, maybe we should organize them as a family. So, you could choose Cartago English, for example, and the specific style will be selected in accordance with the map application current task (general viewing, driving, ...).

In addition to map style, I think we need, at least for driving, driving-oriented controls arrangement. I would like to see current speed, speed limit (if available) and such. At some point, @otsaloma was opposed to idea of turning Poor Maps into large speedometer. Maybe we can convince him that its a good idea to have driving-oriented mode. One way of doing it, is to implement and test the code and ask for inclusion via PR. For code writing, would be good to have an idea on how to arrange the controls (portrait and landscape modes separate) and what to display, how to show roundabouts and so on. So, for active users, I suggest start making mock-ups, let's discuss and agree on them. After that, code writing is considerably easier.

When we talk about available data, please see the list under "trace_attributes" in https://github.com/valhalla/valhalla...i-reference.md . Most probably, while I haven't tested it yet, we have access to all that already on our devices via Valhalla wrapped in OSM Scout Server Router module.

I encourage those who use WhoGo for driving to think and figure out the interface (what to keep, what to add, how to shuffle).

It can bring us into trouble with the law in several countries, if I understand correctly. I am not planning to implement it.

Voice and shown instructions

Instructions come from Valhalla: https://github.com/valhalla/valhalla . Valhalla was developed by Mapzen and now, after Mapzen shutdown, the team moved to Mapbox. Its actively developed project and, in the cases that seem odd, you should start filing issues there.

In the case of instructions, WhoGo/Poor Maps is a messenger. So, we don't have an option to make it less or more verbose. This has to be done on Valhalla's side. As for British units, see https://github.com/valhalla/valhalla/issues/874

In the cases with misleading instructions, check how the data is represented at OpenStreetMap. What confuses Valhalla is the change in the name of the street that it immediately tries to convey. But it can be discussed with Valhalla team by filing issue there.


TTS

The default English voice is from mimic and is American. There is rather small choice of TTS solutions in Linux (open-source). I raised the concerns regarding it when I was packaging TTS engines for SFOS while working on voice instructions for Poor Maps. Corresponding post was done at TJC with the hope of official response, didn't get any: https://together.jolla.com/question/...post-id-165969


Sorry for long reply.

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

Silence!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ljFfL-mL70

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

So let me say: here all exits are on the right ;)

But have have hou ever traveled from Aachen/Germanyto Paris/France via Belgium? There is one 'exit' where.you really 'leave' the current motorway to the left.

But yeah in general you are right.

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

First of all, as said before, your contribution has been very welcome, filling a gap in the sailfish offer, at a level I wouldn't have thought possible for a two mens project (otsaloma and rinigus, or I am missing someone else ? MartinK maybe ?). Thanks !

Now for the constructive comments:
There are several use-cases of the application which could need different information. A "one size fits all" maps may not be the best solution for this, and I have seen several gps system having a dedicated "drive" view.
On Here Maps for symbian for example, they even made it two separate applications (maps and navigation), but I obviously wouldn't recommend that solution.

Anyway, I can see the following usages:

• "I'm lost" : need maps of surroundings, maybe nearby POI (looking for a pub to buy you a beer for example :D). Scale of the map and GPS accuracy are key data here.
• "Looking for some place elsewhere" : kind of the same usage than above, but GPS fix doesn't matter, it could has well be off.
• "Planning a trip" : Must be able to see the full route and be able to zoom on specific parts. If the routing engine can provide several paths, be able to show them and select one
• "Driving" : Attention must be focused on the road, so that the data shown must be easy to read at a glance. For example, showing accuracy doesn't matter much in that case, GPS either has a fix or doesn't, if accuracy is too large to place you on the good road, then you wouldn't be able to do anything about it. Scale also is not needed, it is always the same and what you expect while driving. What I found as main information provided by usual navigation systems are, except the map itself, current speed, next action (big icons like today are great for that!), distance to next action, remaining time to destination, remaining distance to destination, estimated hour of arrival. HereMaps for Symbian allowed to choose one of those last three as showing all would be two much. Details of the next action like its road name are usually not easy to spot while driving, but in some case like big city directions on highway does help, not sure how to handle those...
• "Walking" : there may be different information needed compared to driving, and you may have a bit more attention to the screen than when in a car

There is not a need of one view for each of those use cases, but the driving one seems different enough to justify its own. For example, fitting to Sailfish design guideline when driving shouldn't be a requirement as having a nice high contrast black on white display of the remaining time would be a lot easier to spot quickly.

The difference between my N8 with its good AMOLED screen and black/white theme with big fat text on HereMap and my Jolla1 with its less clear screen (to be fair, I hadn't pushed up the luminosity in my tests...) with sailfish themed smaller text helps reducing the time needed to check the directions, which is important when driving to keep eyes on the road.

As it seems to be only QML to change for this, and only changes on a cosmetic level, as all is already there, I will try to tinker it a bit and come back with a proposition of what I could see as a dedicated driving view. I'll let you know if I come up with something that could be good enough to be discussed here and see others thoughts on this.


Once again, I really like what you have done !

Re: WhoGo Maps
 

Here in the US, most exits are on the right, but maybe one in twenty or so is a left exit. For those, it is really useful to know which side of the road to start heading towards before you get there.