Re: The noBounds Project
 

From the comments of the video:

noBounds is installable SW or Firmware on N8x0, and Firmware SW on some recent Display devices.
Alternatively this functionality could be implemented in a small HW dongle to connect traditional interfaces of not upgradeable display devices.

Re: The noBounds Project
 

What is the contraption he wears around his head which projects on his eye glasses??

Re: The noBounds Project
 

hopefully the dongle will be made widely available- None of my TVs or Monitors are equipped with WiFi :)

Re: The noBounds Project
 

It's a small screen HD display. The glasses were only worn to show the reflection of the image.

Re: The noBounds Project
 

That was going to be my next gripe on this thing. We can't play video at a decent resolution on the built-in screen, but apparently full HD 30 fps is no problem once we connect it to an external monitor?

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot???!!

Re: The noBounds Project
 

1. What's the big deal with WiFi? You're still going to sit in front of that screen, with your Itablet on the table in front of you. I call overkill.

2. Exactly how low is the power consumption? Without figures, everyone can claim amazingly low power and later say that they're just easily amazed...

3. I have a problem with fanboism. This video out feature is nice, but hardly world-shattering, and it does nothing for the video annoyances I'm experiencing with my Itablet every day.

Re: The noBounds Project
 

Sorry, we don't want to bother you with demo-SW :rolleyes: . It's also intended to be open sourced, but please be patient for the time it takes. :D

Re: The noBounds Project
 

Because the LCD controller isn't involved here. . . . :rolleyes:

Re: The noBounds Project
 

It's nice, but what does it do for the video problems with the built-in screen?

Also, I didn't buy an Itablet so that I could hook it up to a big screen; I bought it specifically not to hook it up to a big screen, because of its brilliant native screen. Of course, that was before I found out Nokia fixed it so that I could in many cases never use that brilliant screen to its full potential.

This is the same con Nokia keeps playing: Maemo has no decent HWR, but instead of developing/buying something usable, they bolt a keyboard on an "upgraded" model and claim they're veering away from the stylus-based input model.

Itablets have problems displaying video? Don't fix that! Just make them display video perfectly on an external screen. That'll shut the stupid users up.

Re: The noBounds Project
 

See my reply to "spartanNTX.

But don't let me stop you from going: "Oh boy!"

Re: The noBounds Project
 

Wohow don't worry about us... we like demo sw ;)

Can you comment on the chances of getting OpenGL ?

Re: The noBounds Project
 

Yes, you can now see the lack of decent productivity software on a much larger screen.

Re: The noBounds Project
 

:rolleyes: I see- you've given up on convincing people this isn't neat and have moved on to complaining about the tablets in general. Wonderful.

Re: The noBounds Project
 

The LCD controller issue isn't really relevant here. If you want to ***** about that go start you own thread where you can moan to your heart's content, there's no need too troll here.

Besides, this really doesn't have a ton to do with what Nokia proper is doing. Sorta like *****ing about the INdT guys not doing something you think Nokia shouod be doing.

Anyway, fixing the LCD controller issue isn't something you can do with software. Wait for step 5 and OMAP3 where we'll have a built-in controller that can handle 800x480. OMAP2 and the N8*0s are a done deal.

Re: The noBounds Project
 

TVout is IMHO physically not available in N810. But noBounds uses 'physically unchanged' N800 / N810. Thus, it's a little more tricky engineering work than just additional wire(s) :)
Btw, 32GB miniSD cards are comming... and FullHD (MPEG4 AVC; H264) is 20..40Mbps which you could stream from e.g. Vimeo: http://vimeo.com/471243

Re: The noBounds Project
 

ah, so thats the troublemaker for local playback. so far i had only read comments about some internal design issue.

that makes it kinda interesting, even if it means bringing along the N800, usb hub, usb drive and connector, 3 of those needing their own power adapter, to show a suitably long video in HD...

i guess the best bit is that one can with this turn the N800 into a web terminal of sorts for the desktop ;)

hell, one gnumeric and abiword get really going i guess one could replace many a home computer with a N800 hooked up like that.

Re: The noBounds Project
 

And of course that^ development dynamic will change as more productive users will now have a compelling reason to carry a tablet. However, having data in a presentable form I would think is a more often cited reason for bringing a laptop on a business trip than simple data collection.

The pressure now will be on Nokia to provide a usable Exchange client.

Re: The noBounds Project
 

Well the interface to LCD controller is of course much faster than Wi-Fi. Almost anything is faster than wi-fi (especially the one in our tablets :-). The whole demonstration looks strange. Things on N8x0 display do not match things on big display (1 fish vs tons of fish, 1 house vs whole city, hildon UI vs no UI on big display, 3 thumbnails on the left in quiver vs more on big display). And of course you can't push full screen HD video over wifi (or even usb 2.0 which is ~10x faster) uncompressed at 30 fps. There is simply not enough bandwidth, they must cheat somehow. The most plausible part is accelerated OpenGL which is technically possible with our OMAP chip but still quite improbable. We'll see :-)

Re: The noBounds Project
 

exchange? make that powerpoint ;)

Re: The noBounds Project
 

If you've not the right Display available, you could use a dongle with additional power supply. But the N810 USB OTG can provide power through the USB cable, so that you don't need three power supplies.

Btw. I'm searching for gnumeric, abiword, impress,... for our demo N8x0. If it runns you'll see another video. Could someone help?

Re: The noBounds Project
 

http://repository.maemo.org/extras-d...ee/g/gnumeric/

Abiword isn't quite stable and there's no Impress AFAIK.

Re: The noBounds Project
 

I could share a PDF presentation if I liked. There's my wow factor... and I would feel the same regardless of employment. ;)

Re: The noBounds Project
 

You made good points!
The local N8x0 3D rendering is limited. Externally, more details are enabled. The UI handling is not yet done consistently (it's 'demo-SW' :p). It's fine for e.g. quiver, lybniz, MaemoPad, web-browser, and other GUI programs.
You could look more closely in full screen, therefore I've uploaded it in full quality: The N8x0 shows the left upper 800x480 part only. Later versions might have local panning. The FullHD shows the full 1920x1080 output synchonously. Shrinking the huge display content to the small would render it simply unusable tiny, or do you have so small fingers *fg*.
You're correct, uncompressed FullHD video (~3Gbps) won't fit in WLAN or USB2.0 HS. Thus the available compressed MPEG4 AVC, H264 movie-file is easily streamed (20..40Mbps) and to be decoded at display side.

Re: The noBounds Project
 

Hmm ok, but first tell what the x in 8x0 stands for :)

Re: The noBounds Project
 

So the actual FullHD decoder will be in the dongle? Wouldn't that make it quite high-priced?

EDIT: About the Impress - here's a straight compile of an old Impress 1.0 viewer - Imposter, not hildonized, but works.

http://bundyo.org/maemo/imposter/imp....3-1_armel.deb

Re: The noBounds Project
 

Unless, of course, you don't fall for the notion of sitting about staring at whatever content someone else feeds you, and hence have no TV in the house. Radio's OK, because you can listen while doing something else. But if I'm gonna sit and stare at a piece of entertainmeent or information, I'll jolly well run the show! Computers good, TV bad.

No matter your opinion on that, I'm sure there are many people who would rather have SVGA (Super-VGA, BTW) than s-vid, if only because they have a nicer computer monitor or (e.g. classroom) projector than TV.

Well, you can get about 4x as many on an N800, you can have multiple cards, or you could fail to acquire the slack-jaw screen-stare, and use that resolution for presentations, web browsing, etc.

Yes, 40 million seconds before. They did their best to stop N8x0s from getting features, but you know big corporations move slow.

Re: The noBounds Project
 

Impress would be good for creating stuff, but export the presentation to pdf and eVince works great.

Re: The noBounds Project
 

Oh, I'll be getting an OMAP3 allright...

Re: The noBounds Project
 

Heh, not sure why, but I don't think you're talking N900... ;)

Re: The noBounds Project
 

It's simply for my laziness :D: x stands for 0 and 1 => N800; N810

Re: The noBounds Project
 

All valid points... but I doubt that this function will have any practical use for the average user... I didn't hear any mention of audio capabilities for instance.

I can appreciate KJ's frustration. I think like him, I have come to the realization that Nokia has no motivation in developing the tablet into a PIM replacement and has left that up to the community.
I have also come to the realization that Nokia sees the tablet as a development mule and our community as potential presenters of whatever "concept" use they want to promote at the time. For instance, this and other future capabilities will just be "there", with no supporting applications.

Our community will then produce a flurry of activity in developing these new capabilities into useful applications only to eventually run into the brick wall of hardware limitations. We'll go through yet another period of disappointment and then BAM, Nokia will again present a new capability that they developed, in house and behind closed source code.

In reality, our community is just a means to help change the public perception of Nokia from a cell phone manufacturer to a computer company.

In essence we are promoting a future series of devices beyond "N"....
It sucks that we paid cash up front for this "privilege" though... I'm thinking we should at least be offered a dang stock option. :D

Re: The noBounds Project
 

Thanks for the Imposter.

That's correct, the decoder is due to the severe advantages external in this approach. Hovever, price isn't something I could speak about publically. Btw. if you've a recent digital TV, BlueRay player or Set-top box you've such decoder already several times, as it's e.g. needed for DVB, IP-TV or MP4 file playback. So why not use it.

Re: The noBounds Project
 

Being, can you provide any clue's on if there are actual plans @ nokia to offer this software (and what license?) and that dongle thing? Or is this more a pure research thing and actual delivery is just way out the hands of this/your group?

edit an while you're at it:"A fully mobile usage with a single 1200mAh phone battery powering the phone, USB and an Near to Eye Display (NED) estimates to allow more than 6 hours typical office application usage time without a power supply."

how the hell do you get 6 hours on a N8x0????:confused::confused::confused:

Re: The noBounds Project
 

Very interesting, and cool indeed.
And to think I posted today on my personal site about aspects of the tablet that hadn't met my expectations. This does - to a small degree.

Getting past the wow factor, as I understand it, only a few GUI apps are supported thus far. That makes me assume that for the upscaling of these apps that there is some UI convention that has not been passed to other applications so that they can (1) be uniform and (2) work with this new functionality. That part is fustrating. Its almost like most of the IT's development happens as a result of people wanting to bring order to a device of primeordeal ooze.

Still, its neat. And will be interesting to see how this comes out in 2.5 years (date guess from Texrat's saying that he presented this in '06 only for it to make an appearance now)...

Re: The noBounds Project
 

Its comments like this that I REALLY don't understand. The tablet is worth every cent I spent on it even if development stopped TODAY. I use it every day to listen to music in at least 3 different ways, type notes in meetings and classes. I have no problem being part of a 'test audience' if I can get as much *real* use of this I am doing presently.

If you don't like this function then post that you don't like it and step back and let those of us who do like it to discuss it without stepping in just purely to stir up crap. Karel commented on my first comment loooong after I had posted it, surely only to troll the thread further.

If you don't like what the tablet does for you then sell it and buy whatever device you think would your profile better and go troll their forums. :)
As for me any additional functionality is a good thing even if I only use it once.

Re: The noBounds Project
 

Much of this smells like vapourware - or certainly something which wouldn't be useful for many of the use-cases people are imagining (watching your own videos in hotels, complex presentations etc.)

The differences between the tablet screen and the big screen have already been noted (especially visible in the 3D scenes). Other times we can see "Full HD" being decoded which is going to need more than a USB->VGA adapter: *something* is doing a whole lot of donkey work here, and it's not going to be a pocketable USB dongle; more like a laptop or other computer running a full-blown OS. Which then leads to the question, what's the point?

Having said that, from watching the video it seems hopeful that we might see two things:

1) A driver for the various wifi projectors etc. that are now available.
2) Drivers for an (official?) USB->VGA/.../... adapter from Nokia.

In particular, an official USB->VGA adapter from Nokia would be enormous for no other reason that it'd be a proper after-sales add-on, supported by Nokia for more than just memory cards or USB chargers.

Although I echo Karel and YoDude's sentiments: so much of this cool stuff is going on behind closed doors, with occasional glimpses popping out - often of half-baked software. My N810 doesn't yet do what I bought the 770 to do, but it does things I didn't know I wanted very well. Still, a more varied, rich and polished set of bundled apps would be helpful :-)

Re: The noBounds Project
 

No no no! NOT what I said. I said I saw the capability mentioned in data sheets prior to release, but was told it was not going to be available at first. Don't get me in trouble! :p

Re: The noBounds Project
 

Yes, I troll. Obviously. I spout nonsensical arguments against the Itablets just for the fun of it. I'm really Mike Cane.

Re: The noBounds Project
 

Didn't we already establish you were actually John C. Dvorak?

:p

Re: The noBounds Project
 

Great! Hold tight Karel its about to get interesting! We shall soon know!

Ok, edited to invoke skepticism.