Re: Why is WiMax such a big deal?
 

Yeah, I should have started in this thread with a parody:

Re: Why is WiMax such a big deal?
 

I'm gonna have to setup an open AP with SSID "Municipal WiMAX" to confuse people, too.


:cool: <- Me
((( I ))) <- Municipal WiMAX
:confused::eek::rolleyes::o:( <- Them

Re: Why is WiMax such a big deal?
 

You picked a bad parody.
This caused me to look up my references on TCP (Transmission by Carrier Pigeons) .
http://www.pocketpcaddict.com/module...umNews&id=2328
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=13170
http://www.notes.co.il/benbasat/5240.asp

Are just a few links.

Remember this was back in 2004, with the dramatic increase in memory card size I expect they could easily reach at least 10Mbps today.
/edit
I looked up what they were using for "memory cards"

So I revise my above statement and estimate (this is on the fly) 20@ 16GB microSD cards/Bird, total capacity approaching 1TB, or about 500Mbps!!
Take that WIMAX!!

Of note:
Windows cause them to crash
CAT5 is terrible (heck even CAT 1 will eat them)
Do not stand under when they download!!
:)

Re: Why is WiMax such a big deal?
 

Everyone's a critic.

Re: Why is WiMax such a big deal?
 

Any opinions on this: Australian WiMAX pioneer trashes technology as "miserable failure"
?

Re: Why is WiMax such a big deal?
 

Yeah, that was addressed here recently. Other industry analysts have pointed out that the Australian situation is a poor example due to half-hearted installation and support, to put it very simply.

Re: Why is WiMax such a big deal?
 

To answer your questions Texrat and Asqwasqw allow me to tell you what happened. I was on the Boston - Fitchburg train with my N800. I accidentally deleted a file and I figured I'd try to get a copy off my home computer at one of the stations by grabbing a quick WiFi connection. I did a search as the train pulled into Belmont station. I got this NuWave network listed a being open. I got in and started getting my file when the train pulled out. I thought "Crap", but the connection didn't break, I had a connection for about a mile which was just long enough to get my file (2.54 Meg) THEN it broke. I kept the WiFi search open and the NuWave network would come on for a while and die out about a mile later. When I got home, I looked up this NuWave network. It's a WiMAX company with a tower right next to the train tracks about 5 miles from my first connection. I looked into whether there were any other WiMax networks in my area and I found Boston Free WiMAX which is currently under construction, but walking around the city, it comes and goes. Not able to get on at all, just sees the network. Also North Shore WiMAX, which I haven't tested because I don't go to the North Shore that often. I do not know how or why, but isn't the whole purpose behind this WiMAX stuff is that the connection is good for a longer distance than WiFi? Could it be that I lucked into a string of WiFi repeaters? I do not know.

Re: Why is WiMax such a big deal?
 

Note deleted.........................

Re: Why is WiMax such a big deal?
 

Could be an AP on the train, uplinked via WiMAX?

Re: Why is WiMax such a big deal?
 

I don't know the Boston area. Is there any chance you were near Northeastern University? Was the network named "NUwave-guest"?

Re: Why is WiMax such a big deal?
 

Wimax in my area covers a lot of ground but its stupid expensive to my pockets. WiFi for me is the bomb! I have a 1.5mbit dsl connection at home connected to a Linkys wifi router running the latest dd-wrt firmware and a 24dbi parabolic antenna on the roof and i`m able to send that signal 4 miles away to another linksys router that acts like a repeater at my grandma`s house which blasts the signal even further and guess what ? i`m able to stay connected on my n800 on my way to work without missing a ping! Will be adding another router to provide myself even more coverage :) P.S both routers are blasting signals at 225 mW :) Monthly cost of the dsl 50 dollars, two linksys routers 90 dollars, having wifi out in the open on my daily commute priceless :P

Re: Why is WiMax such a big deal?
 

Sweet. Flatlands, I guess?

Re: Why is WiMax such a big deal?
 

You bring up an excellent solution. The train people have been saying that they were going to be testing a WiFi thing on certain trains. Not the one I ride. I did try it out on the Boston - Worcester train. It's called "Commuter Rail" and it's slow.

I grabbed a Topo map and checked out where the NUwave WiMAX antenna is. I see why the NUwave network would come and go, the signal fluctuations are from as the train rises in elevation the signal comes and goes as line of sight to the antenna comes and goes.

That brings up a question. NUwave has a different icon in the Wireless detection window. That's the big reason I thought it was WiMAX. The icon looks like the standard WiFi one with a dot on top.

Re: Why is WiMax such a big deal?
 

That icon denotes an ad-hoc network, not an access point.

Re: Why is WiMax such a big deal?
 

Yup. not that many building or huge trees on the way. Plus the antenna at home is on top of roof mounted on a 25 foot pole!

Re: Why is WiMax such a big deal?
 

For most people WiMAX will be a bust. From other threads the Canadian service is pre-WiMAX except for some small WiMAX rollouts, Sprint has delayed their US rollout, and many other CITA devices support both WiMAX and LTE. With both Verizon and AT&T rolling out LTE based networks I don't think you will ever see a serious WiMAX deployment in the US.

Re: Why is WiMax such a big deal?
 

I just want to ask if i buy this nikia Wimax tablet will it work in wimax networks in pakistan or in middeleast or not. Is it specific to only sprint network only? is wimax also have standard frequency like wifi or have different standards acording to regions.

Thanks

Re: Why is WiMax such a big deal?
 

Unfortunately WiMAX covers a broad spectrum and there are reginal bands within that range. You will need to find out if the WiMAx range covered by the tablets is compatible with your region.

But it isn't specific to Sprint.

And contrary to brontide's opinion above, if GSM and CDMA can reach their current levels and coexist in the US, then so can LTE and WiMAX. You guys just see what's publicized. There's enough money already put into WiMAX (especially by Intel) that the stakeholders won't give up easily.

Re: Why is WiMax such a big deal?
 

Every now and then i travel by Train (TGV) between Paris and Brussels and I use my N800 all way connected to Internet. The train runs at 350 Km/H (225Milles/hour) with Wifi in the cabins and satellite backhaul to internet. It works fine.

Few years ago I worked on a project in HongHong where we used pre-wimax from Alvarion to connect the trains to the stations. The train rolls at 80 km/hour and we could send non-stop CCTV images from the train to the station without interruption without problems (part of security system).

Therefore, I believe that WiMax could be a good means to provide connectivity in Trains, if not directly to terminals (N830-WIMAX), at least as backhaul to a on-board Wifi network.

Re: Why is WiMax such a big deal?
 

At work we deploy a WiMAX modem + Wireless Router combo, and I've been fairly impressed with it. It's quick, the coverage is superb [though we only use it in larger cities] and the response is relatively impressive.

The reason I'm so impressed with it, I suppose, is because the quality of our cellular data networks is so bad it's almost comical. When I looked into a dataplan for my cellular phone, it was going to be inordinately expensive... to the degree where it would have been about as expensive to order an American service and bite the bullet on roaming charges for out of country activity. Now, things may have changed slightly since the last time I looked [as it was some time ago, and I may be exaggerating slightly] but the digital-cellular system was only ever half-hearted.

Cellular affinity doesn't seem to have ever been an interest of Canadians I believe, it certainly is interesting to see the leap-frog directly to data.

So far, so good... depending on the N810-Wimax edition's reviews, I may switch over to all-wireless. Guess we'll see. For now, WiMAX at work seems to be working out fairly decently for us.

Re: Why is WiMax such a big deal?
 

^So are you confident that the WiMAX network here in the land of stupid cell service will be usable with the new 810? Because of the sorry state of the cell companies and the unusable data plans I don't even own a cell phone and rely solely on my N800 over SIP/WiFI. And what areas are being covered? I can't get a a single company to respond to my queries. They seem to only concentrate on unserved areas such as the far north and rural areas like Milton. Not a word on whether or not I can bring my own device. The brick modems that bell <spit> and rogers <spit> offer are of course not what I'm interested in.


And it is definitely true that up here cell service and in particular wireless data service is a joke. It doesn't work where I need it and where it does work it is outrageously expensive. WiMAX has big promise but right now I'm doubtful that the incumbents would give up their monopoly and terrible service. Even at 1/2 the cost it would be too expensive.

Where is HSDPA?
 

The question is not "Why WIMAX", but "Why not HSDPA?" Especially for an Internet Tablet.

To be "surf anywhere" the device needs to support wireless internet access that is available everywhere.

That's not 802.11, that's for the home, university, maybe a coffee shop or airport lounge. It gets a little better if you add paid hot spots, but that never took off here and anyway everywhere != densely populated areas of big cities.

That's not WIMAX either. No service in sight here, nobody outside of the tech crowd has ever heard of it. Seems more like a replacement for a conventional DSL/cable/fiber, read: stationary, net access to me.

An then there's HSDPA, which is dirt cheap (f. ex. EUR 20 / GB pay as you go without a contract, USIM free) and available everywhere (every Austrian city I've ever been to, worst that can happen is that it drops to GPRS).
USB-HSDPA modems for laptops can be had for ~EUR 100 so the cost of the radio can't be the problem either.

I really don't get it ...

Re: Why is WiMax such a big deal?
 

Sure it will work? HAHA, no... hoping... praying, even... possibly. But... I have my hopes. The rollout of WiMAX in Canada-land might make it a tempting target market for Nokia. This is my hope at least.

And no kidding about the customer service right now, it's quite abysmal... BUT I seemed to get the impression that they weren't marketing the system for mainstream use in densely populated areas... It's quite nice of them to not force not-ready-for-primetime systems on the customer base.

We namely got it by forcing bell's hand. To be honest, I would never personally deal with Bell in any way shape or form... they've given me far too much grief in the past. Still, we have a good corporate relationship with Bell, so things started moving a bit quicker. I'm sure a regular consumer could get the system as well, it's just not as predominant as their other services.

Also, don't even get me started on a proper map for coverage areas... even the stuff they have is a joke. Still, there is progress being made. Areas with large rural or sub-urban areas are mainly being targeted, but so are bigger cities. I believe the current hesitation is that they don't want to overload the infrastructure before they even get it off the ground... but this seems very unlike big-telecos normal course of action.

Personally, I think WiMAX is further along than Bell/Rogers give it credit... certainly seems further along than the Xohm service in the US even though they're marketing it as available there; but for now neither Rogers nor Bell want to tip their hand as both of them have heavy investment in our [highly substandard] cellular networks. Give it time, and as we see more wimax capable devices they'll move on things. [My hope at least]. As it stands right now, the only devices they have for sale are modem bricks that are clunky and sad.

Re: Where is HSDPA?
 

While I agree partly, and simply cannot comment on more evolved cellular networks, I'll just point out that WiMAX makes sense here.

Our cellular networks aren't bad... they're remarkably bad. I think the telecos here are just trying to jump the bandwagon and get onboard with a potential service that is more future proof, and has better coverage rates.

If WiMAX provided what it says it will provide, then it could save them some time and money... and make them look good from an "embracing emerging technology" point of view. Canada has about the population of NYC, yet it's spread out over an area that is several orders of magnitude larger... and all these people want, nay, *expect* high-speed networks. Call it pretentious, but if you could deliver a one-solution-fits-all system that handles all networking traffic over that area [and didn't have a pre-existing infrastructure in place] you might think differently as well...

For places like the US, Europe and Australia... I'm not sure. There's a chance we'll see some break-in with WiMAX but only time will tell. HSDPA makes sense where the towers are already in place, I defiantly agree with you there. I'm not sure what market they're going to try and sell to *ESPECIALLY* when everyone already owns an HSDPA capable cellular phone.

Re: Where is HSDPA?
 

That's exactly it ... Will, might ... my point was, HSDPA is deployed and mainstream in Europe now. Nobody needs a tablet with wireless connectifity that might be available in 5 years time. I'd expected the EU market to be big enough to warrant even a custom device version, if need be.

Hm. Connecting via mobile phone is tedious, error prone and depletes two batteries at once. Maybe if there were cheap (<EUR 50 with contract) HSDPA phones that paired effortlessly with everything and contracts with both cheap data and voice on the same USIM. At the moment most data service is data-only.

But I'd much rather dump the cell phone entirely and put a HSDPA USIM in every mobile device I own. They're as good as free, after all.

Oh well, there's a bunch of MIDs on the horizon that'll supposedly have integrated HSDPA ... perhaps WIMAX will be here till they're out :-)

Re: Where is HSDPA?
 

Nokia makes no money from cellular service fees and the cellular networks/Qualcomm are so powerful in NA that Nokia is failing to capture potential profits even as an OEM for HSDPA devices. Nokia stands to gain $$$ if they can participate in another Mobile Internet model without the cellular networks taking their pound of flesh. Nokia has plenty of HSDPA devices; the tablet/WiMax is their end-around strategy, not that I necessarily agree of course...

Re: Why is WiMax such a big deal?
 

Yep, we're agreeing I think.

HSDPA in Europe, etc = likely the way to go.
WiMAX in other markets = possibly *a* way to go.

Besides, someone has to be the guinea pig, right?

Yeah, I like this as well... more options for more markets... it's too bad that WiMAX implementations vary from country to country though.

Re: Where is HSDPA?
 

You're jumping too early. Patience grasshopper. And WiMAX will have enough of a reach that, if properly-deployed, means anything but stationary access within supported areas.

And yes, I know the size of the IF. ;)

Re: Why is WiMax such a big deal?
 

I know very little about HSDPA but two things: having a standard that works over most of the world is a good thing, U.S. != world. And, I don't own a cell phone and don't plan on getting one as long as I'm living in Canada with the unacceptable cellphone service here. I'm much too comfy with my own SIP system and not likely to switch anytime soon if ever.

So, if HSDPA can be had on a device and I can run simple fast data vs voice specific or gawd forbid anything that they claim as data as it is currently offered up here I won't care if it is HSDPA or WiMAX. Just give me internet on the go at very low rates (what WiMAX promises) and I'm very happy. If it is anything like a cell service that says if I drive 20 minutes east I'm suddenly "roaming" and must pay insane rates to do anything then I'm not buying. WiFI doesn't care where I am so I always know what it will cost.

Re: Why is WiMax such a big deal?
 

The irony is killing me... On the one hand I have zero need to be online while driving and where I drive cell doesn't work anyway (I rarely drive highways). But I do drive through the area that I know is being served by WiMAX (rural Milton, Ontario). But I can't use my own device on that network (brick modem only). The coverage maps of course show my residence as being covered (semi urban near the lake) but since we're covered by other means I can't get anyone to even offer WiMAX here. I tried using a cell instead of a landline years ago but again, coverage inside any house that I've lived in was terrible. So I'm not looking at bell <spit> or rogers <spit> for the next generation of wireless.

Re: Why is WiMax such a big deal?
 

That tends to be a consequence of the higher bands, ie 1900/2100. 850/900 fare better. Is one of the latter available to you?

Re: Why is WiMax such a big deal?
 

I don't even know but that isn't the problem actually. Step outside to use the phone but it isn't a strong signal. It was the same when I lived in a major suburban area and even the top floor of an apartment. They seem to go out of their way to *not* cover residential areas so that people like me won't give up the landline. Well I don't have either because of the how the plans are structured here. I prefer to live away from highways and major arteries but I'm certainly not in a rural area. My DIY SIP system is much more cost effective, gives me all the convenience and multi phone capabilities of a landline, cordless, and a cell (WiFI). This is why I'm curious about WiMAX or anything that gives me simple data like WiFI but with longer range coverage.


Bell and the boys are not going to easily give up their gold mine or make it easy for someone new to get on the towers with a potentially competing system.

My hope is that WiMAX/4G comes and I can get the service like I do with any wired internet service, i.e. simple and cheap while using my own device. And that is "why WiMAX is such a big deal".

Re: Why is WiMax such a big deal?
 

Coming to cellular providers and contracts. India has a wonderful mobile system. FIrst of all there are NO contracts!! AND NO suBSIDIES!

And then there is prepaid cards where you just buy a certain denomination of money and then use it as long as you want. ANd they are pretty cheap.

1usd = 40 rupees. You get a minute for each rupee and incoming is free all the time.

The US has to learn something from here!!

Re: Why is WiMax such a big deal?
 

And maybe 10 years after that happens Canada will learn. Actually neither will learn the lessons, they will join the planet after a lot of kicking and screaming. But as long as DIY'rs like me are a small market they won't care much to get my business back.

Re: Why is WiMax such a big deal?
 

We probably need to see this by market type.
In Europe, mobile operators are moving to HSDPA and later to LTE (Long Term Evolution = 4G). With this move they try to enter the fixed operator market. However, fixed operators are betting in Wimax (802.16e) as it will allow them to enter the mobile market. And in 2010 with 802.16m (Wimax evolution) the performance (including the latency) of WiMax will be close to the LTE specs. This means that by 2010 we will have a true convengence where mobile operators will compete with fixed operators and vice versa.

In developing countries like India, where there is not much copper arround, WiMax has a clear advantage because it allows fixed operators to provide broadband in short time at low cost (no need to deploy copper/fibber).

The main problem in Europe with HSDPA/LTE is the roaming costs. For example in France I have a 3G pack that is very competive IF I connect in France, but if I move 300Km into a neibouring country it is far too expensive to use data in 3G (this is why I use mostly the N800 with WiFi. In Europe most cities have free wifi).

The main problem for me is that there are several frequency ranges both for HSDPA/LTE and for WiMax:

HSDPA/LTE:
2100 MHz, 900MHz, 1800MHz, 700MHz, 450MHz (Europe, Asia)
1700MHz, 2100MHz, 700MHz,... (USA)

WiMax: 2.3GHz, 2.5 GHz, 3.5GHz (depending if you are in Europe, USA or Asia)

Many mobile phones support quad-band, and I think that the N800 WiMax should support the 3 existing WiMax bands to really compete with the mobile world. That would give real Internet everywhere with WiMax.

Today N810 WiMax is only available in US, with means that probably only supports the US WiMax range. I hope that the N8x0 (next itt) will support the 3 standards...

Re: Why is WiMax such a big deal?
 

Sure that would be great except that Canada doesn't allow tethering and/or charges a rate of 5 cents per KB of data transfered using tethered device and non Rogers certified phones. (IE: Anything but WAP data)

Re: Why is WiMax such a big deal?
 

makes me ponder how spoiled i am here in norway, as my current operator (telenor) have a pricing of 12,50nok pr MB (combined upload and download, tho) or about 2,21cad if im doing the math right.

there is also a roof of 75nok pr day, or 13,31cad...

i could, if i feel the need, slap on a 499nok/88,53cad option that would allow me free use of the mobile phone as a internet connection (within "reasonable" limits probably).

or if one wants the numbers in usd or euro:

pr MB: €1,70/$2,17
a day: €8,23/$10,48
option: €54,73/$69,72

Re: Why is WiMax such a big deal?
 

Your rates actually look rather expensive to me. Here are some of the better rates available in the UK:

Pay As You Go - Pop an "Asda Mobile" SIM card in your phone or USB modem and pay a flat 20 pence per megabyte. That's 25 Euro cents per megabyte, or 32 US cents per megabyte.

Daily cap - T-mobile has the best deals here, £1 per day (up to 40 megabytes), or £2 per day (up to 100 megabytes). Strictly speaking, you can't use the £1 rate to tether a "computer" to a phone, although the staff at my local T-mobile store didn't think the N800 counted as a "computer". That's 1.26 Euros or US $1.62 for 40 megabytes, and 2.53 Euros or US $3.25 for 100 megabytes.

Monthly - Typically £15 to £20 for 3 Gigabytes, although there are a lot of different monthly deals according to whether you already have a monthly voice contract, whether you are using the phone or a USB stick as your modem, and whether an N800 counts as a "computer". That's 19 to 26 Euros, or US $24 to $33.

Something really good about T-mobile is that they don't charge extra for going over a limit. If you regularly go over the limit, they will eventually tell you to move to a more expensive plan, but there's no chance of accidentally incurring a thousand-dollar bill.

Regards,
Roger

Re: Why is WiMax such a big deal?
 

Keep in mind this is about T-Mobile UK. In other countries the service of T-Mobile differs.

Also, in Europe, WiMAX is very much welcome! More competition with current 3G telcos is good for the market.

Re: Why is WiMax such a big deal?
 

heh, im not surprised that there are places in the world that data traffic pr the mobile network is cheaper then norway.