Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

It's another fictitious "award" system that "counts" activity in the "community". ;-)

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

The truth of the matter is, you really can't be involved in maemo.org without generating at least a little karma.

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

Maybe Thanks points here could equate to X number of Karma points in the future...

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

It's being worked on as we speak.

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

As has been pointed out before, it's quite easy to do bugzilla, iTT, IRC, mailing lists, and more without having "karma" because you don't have a maemo.org account.

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

Whoa! Keep doing the airquotes and you might fly off. :) ( I miss Chris Farley heh :P )

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

Just a note to anybody planning on voting who hasn't already.

Polls close just before midnight tonight UTC (23:59 UTC), so if you're gonna vote, do it soon. ;)

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

...and often.

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

So? If there's no other definition of the community, you're going to have to register *somewhere* to vote. That's is - and will remain - maemo.org. I can contribute to my local village's community without signing up on the electoral role.

If you register with maemo.org (for whatever reason), you're making an explicit statement about being involved in the community centred around maemo.org (which is not a developer site!). As you then participate in the community, that gets recognised (automatically) on levels of participance - not quality (who'd define "quality" anyway).

Back to the slightly more on-topic bit, my thoughts on the definition of the community etc. are on the maemo-community list:

http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//ma...er/000859.html

(Which, also, had a number of threads querying the candidates for their stands on a number of issues and is probably worth reading).

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

Jaffa,

The problem with the voting rules is that they were designed to preclude those who did not meet the definition from becoming eligible to vote. With so many avenues open to work in/with the "(Maemo|maemo.org|ITOS) community" and no set of voting rules set out far enough in advance for others to "sign up on the electoral role" as you would say. This precluded, maybe more than a handful, of people who are active participants from voting.

http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/mae...st/000658.html

and that was not the only complaint.

http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/mae...st/000650.html

Like, for instance, the mysteriously vanishing 25 karma points needed to vote?

https://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Task:Com...a_requirements

That rule was changed less than a month ago... I think, there was no formal list activity on it short of this comment.

http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/mae...st/000663.html

You went from 250 voters when voting was first setup, to 450 voters that appeared to be the consensus on the list, to 12288 voters when it actually got created and wonder why those people, active enough to care are annoyed when they can't vote?


You had to start somewhere, but don't pass this off as something *everyone* should have just known about since the rules were in flux right up until the voter list was created.

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

Correct.

I'd guess you are right. Pragmatically, though, do those people have opinions and requirements which are substantially different from those who are participating?

This is not government: this is primarily to streamline and focus communications between "us" and Nokia. Does it actually matter if someone is unable to vote, if the statistical representation is there?

I also don't think that we as candidates are that different in this election: it's more important that whoever is eligible does vote (assuming they agree with our broad platforms and opinions) - this'll make anything the council says as representatives of the community more authoritative. Turnout is more important than the results (and with apparently over 800 votes, I'm pleasantly surprised).

Hardly mysterious. There was always going to be complaining about the process once the process was put into place, despite all the opportunities and invitations for debate before hand.

I agree with GeneralAntilles though, getting 25 karma points isn't hard if you're active in the community; especially once ITT integration is completed and would argue for that rule to still stand in the second election.

Over 12,000 people were eligible to vote in this election. What's your argument? That anyone who wanted to, and had an email address, should be able to vote?

The council's primary constituents are people with maemo.org accounts, all this fuss from people without them may be misunderstanding exactly what the council will be able to do. This is not a council which will be determining the direction of the Maemo platform.

I wasn't aware that I did do that.

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

I don't really have any idea how I would go about to get 25 karma points. I'm in the single digit range at the moment. I'm happy enough with the fact that I was allowed to vote, I even think I'm qualified to vote (the impudence!).

Anyway, this is the first round, you have to start somewhere. The next round won't be in the next century or anything, things can be improved on for round two.

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

If this is the objective, why bother with masquerading it as a democratic process? Why not just appoint somebody (or somebodies) and then tell everyone that they're statistically represented.

There are more than a few small countries that have done this on a national basis (some even use the word 'democratic' in their name!) and tell their constituents that they are "represented". ;)

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

His point was more that the few active people shut out will be statistically represented in the other 12k voters. That's assuming that more than 1% of those voters actually vote.

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

I wonder if they will release how many people voted?

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

So far 880 I guess... so maybe closer to 7%.

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

Hey, just thank God that Diebold isn't involved in vote tabulation! (that might be an inside joke for those outside the US, sorry)

:D

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

Texrat --

I live in Florida. I should be used to this treatment, by now. ;)

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

Thanks for telling us briand.

The system has been updated so that your vote no longer counts.

Have a nice day.

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

Hehe.

Diebold and blackbox voting in USA has been in news all over the world, and in other countries in the world there are also NGOs combating those blackboxes (NL, DE). It isn't a US-only problem.

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

I'm glad I got to vote, even though I don't have nearly as many karma points (7! Woo!) as "test_user". :D

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

heh. The system, as it were, has already been updated so that I wasn't given the opportunity to vote in the first place. :P

;) ..and, yet, my day continues to go well, thanks. :D

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

I have 4 accounts *blush*. Go find them. ;)

Maybe its time for a n800.de community council, an internettablettalk.com community council given the maemo.org community council is clearly unrelated to these communities...

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

according to the "Maemo brand"

Oh I forgot it's the maemo.org community.

Translation please?

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

Nah, we just need a domain name for the maemo.org community... maybe maemo.org.org?

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

www.maemo.org.com :P

Darn.. there's a squatter at org.com! :)

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

This means Nokia has nothing to do with maemo.org. I repeat: Nokia has nothing to do with maemo.org. I repeat: Nokia has nothing to do with maemo.org. Ad Nauseam.

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

Just over 30 minutes remaining. If you're gonna do it, now's the time.

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

I got beat on once here for making a US-centric joke. Once beat, twice paranoid.

Um, no. Maybe you're just joking?

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

Ehehe, I remember that one. Quite the beating, indeed. Some people just can't handle a little joke. ;)

Part of what's happening with Nokia picking up the Maemo trademark for use directly by the company is that maemo.org is moving away from direct Nokia control and more into community hands.

So, of course Nokia isn't completely uninvolved in maemo.org (they do pay for and run the servers ;)), but maemo.org is moving into community hands.

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

Well, duh. :p

I was quibbling with the word "nothing". Leave me to my pedanticism, ya numbnut (I think I just invented a word).

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

Clearly not.

By the way, the unofficial results are in. We're just waiting on dneary to call it now.

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

Obviously I need to update Firefox's inadequate dictionary. :D

Can't wait for the vote results!

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

Well, they're definitely available. Just go back to the same place you voted. ;)

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

People from the various campaigns are coming around to take the lawn signs back, right? Or do we take 'em down and return them to the campaign offices?

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

No no no... you run around switching them to different yards. O, the fun we'll have.

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

I wonder what this means: "This member chose to vote for none of the possible choices."

Is that someone who went into the voting booth and marked "none of the above"?

Is that a hanging chad?

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

No, but it should be a hanging offense.

ba-da-bish!

Re: maemo.org Community Council Voting
 

First of all, it does not mean the same as not voting.

It means the voter took the time to vote and express that he/she did not wish to vote for anyone of the above.

Like with all other options the reason for this vote isn't stated although there are theories on why someomne would vote for such option. In some (feedback related) polls it is possible to state such ie. "None of the above (please specify)."

Although I don't know how this is called in English, in my language its 'blanco stem' which translates to 'white vote' or 'blank vote'. AFAIK it is a normal option in a voting process...

Reasons for voting blanco often include to express disagreement with voting process.

Reasons to express disagreement include (taken from Wikipedia NL):

* The provided statement to vote on is explainable in various ways and therefore has to be redefined.
* The voting procedure is vague.
* Those who proposed the vote haven't fully informed the eligable voters, or have done so unclearly.
* Disagreement with ability to vote. For example, to express disagreement for specific reason to vote such as in case of referedum, or to express disagreement with the democratic voting system, or democracy in general.
* Voter does not agree with any of the options.

There are several differences between a blank vote and not casting a vote. Reasons not to vote (taken from Wikipedia NL) include

* Voter is neutral to outcome.
* Voter is indifferent about outcome, cannot decide, has not looked into the subject.
* Voter is not interested in subject to be voted about.
* Voter is not for the proposal, but has a veto and with voting against the proposal would be rejected (this happens in the Security Council, where permanent members have the right to veto).

In general, by voting blank you express that you are involved (interested) in the democratic system while by not voting you express that you aren't.

Some people want everyone to vote so the percentage of voters is higher. They only do this to justify the voting process. A person who does not wish to vote, for example because he/she hasn't looked into the particular issue, has their right to do so. They could make an uninformed vote by force because they feel they have to decide based on pression from others, but this is not a sincere casted vote.

Because I don't agree with a Plurality model I always vote blank when able to.