Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I would LOVE to see a multifunction card slot that supported various accessories, such as cell modems, WiMAX modems, etc. But when I first threw that out here wayyyy back when I was amazed at the opposition. Some people don't want expandability. Wow.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I think I have a wee bit of understanding. And you're still wrong.

This guy gets it though:

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

YOU are wrong.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

true, i just wonder how the system will deal with customer at voip provider A wants to call customer at provider B and similar.

say, like calling someone on skype, from gizmo...

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Ultimately, the same way eveyone makes sure all web pages render correctly and identically on every browser.






Oops...

:D

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Wow, I just can't compete with so strong an argument.

No wonder my kids win them all.

:rolleyes:

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

i suspect some envision this:
http://www.mobiletechreview.com/tips/ipaq_sleeves.htm

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

thanks, now thats what i call nightmare fuel...

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

lol... what I imagine is that, at least in the US, our illustrious FCC is gonna have to remember that they are a regulatory agency, and do their job. And if necessary, Congress has to remember that they are supposed to legislate for the common good, and do THEIR job...

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

That one cracks me up.

Yet more incentive to redouble my efforts to get every piece of closed-source software on the platform either opened or replaced (see Advanced Backlight ;)).

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

It's 80% more than some competitors. ;)

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Well, you've got SDIO and ExpressCard. ExpressCard isn't supported well by OMAP, and is absolutely huge on the tablet's scale. SDIO is already included in the N8x0's card controller, so it looks like a much more appealing option.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

So what? We're not talking about competitors, we're talking about Maemo and Nokia. ;)

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Yeah, but neither exists in a bubble.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Really, though? I remember you saying the N800 and N810 were co-existing devices forming a family; but they weren't: the N810 has completely replaced the N800 in terms of Nokia's marketing and, in some instances, availability.

Given the next device is orders of magnitude more powerful (by having the OMAP3 and graphics acceleration) it'd be utter foolishness on Nokia's part to try to maintain the N810 and N9xx on the same platform (however, as GeneralAntilles' pointed out: there'd be riots if they don't).

Of course, you might be hinting that there'll be a family of N9xx devices to cater to different needs. That would be big news - I'm not sure I'm convinced it makes the best sense, but would be very interesting ;-)

My concern about the HSPA focuses around three points:

1. Increases development and regulatory costs. Therefore production costs are, all else being equal, higher. Now, different components can change the "all else being equal" bit.
2. May diminish the focus on Bluetooth connections and keeping that a first tier option.
3. SIM-only broadband plans aren't massively advertised in the UK (if they exist). The closest are £15 ($30) a month for a 3G USB dongle. Not sure the SIM card can be extracted, but that's nearly doubling my line rental.

The HSPA bit will cost me in the region of $350 a year. That's a lot of money. If the NxxxHSPA was subsidised to free by a carrier on a £15pm contract, that'd be fine (but that reduces many of the benefits of the original two-device proposition). But I'd be surprised if they did that, given the feature set makes it look like a high end phone.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

So this would mean that Nokia (and probably Google) are going to put themselves in a position where telephony standards begin to look more like the W3C. Good if they can pull it off, bad if another IE4-6 trip happens.

Does the various Linux foundations that Nokia is a part of have any precident towards this level of standards development.

And I agree, the FCC will have to open things up considerably. Man does this open a can of beans that cannot be stopped without some nicely public pandering and lobbying (in the US). Outside of the US, this might be a great equalizer for some markets better than others.

This really has me thinking...

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

sounds like skype to me...

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

You cannot so casually dismiss the period of overlap. However, I do wish the N800 was still currently produced. Also, I'm not limiting my comments to the current status quo. I'm not really hinting that there are solid plans for broad diversity, but I think we can all agree that would be the (ultimate) necessary state.


Only if you utilize it.

I think we can all agree that there are cost/benefit analyses we all perform, even if they're instinctive and emotional. Will I buy an "NxxxHSPA" even if I don't use it and the extra cost is $20 USD? Yes. $40 USD? Maybe. $80 USD? Doubtful. But you get the picture.

I just think people need to calm down a bit and not turn the addition of an HSPA radio into the Internet Tablet Apocalypse. :D "Kill the platform"... sheesh. :rolleyes:

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Why do you say that? You exist in your gun-free-zone bubble. Why don't you move to Europe and Canada?

The N8x0 is fine with just the BT and WiFi radios. Anything which ties these devices to the cellular companies will have undesirable consequences.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Please take your bizarre and misguided political rantings elsewhere.

And you are significantly misunderstanding what the HSPA development portends. I suggest you read a bit more and ponder a bit harder.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Thanks for clarifying.

True, but then the addition of the radio is useless (to me) and has - even if in some small way - increased the cost for no good reason.

Indeed.

Agreed. If this was Bugzilla, it'd be tagged "MOREINFO" ;-)

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

lol... thanks Jaffa. That last remark still has me grinning.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I do not switch off my N95 on a plane. I just put it offline (it turns off the radio part), and I use the N95 as a music player. I never had problems with this (and I travel often).

You probably can do the same with N900

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Heh.. quite fun to read the views on the HSPA. I suspect it will not increase the cost by 25%. Therefore, for most average joe consumers (that Nokia is obviously aiming for in the end) will appreciate having that choise. As for the operating cost: turn it off.

Anyway, I think the other new specs are equally interesting and it would be fun to hear a bit more views on those. HD cam could mean anything from 1mp up. My guess is about E90 quality cam. The new processor should also speed up things nicely.

Any speculation/rumors on Haptikos being on it?

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

to bad i can no longer turn wifi off and keep bluetooth on in diablo like i could in chinook, thanks to "switch on bt"...

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Another way of dealing with 2 celllular bills can be...

For the primary cell phone service have a family plan addon for 10$ a month. That can take care of incoming and emergency calls.

And then you have the unlimited hspa for 30$ a month.

That way you can keep your bill below 50.

That is how i plan to do it.

I would try to make most of my calls via skype so that i do not use much of my family plan minutes.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Jaffa, in the UK Three offer their 1gb "mobile-broadband" package on Pay-as-you-go as an add-on for £10 per month. Or, if you just want mostly web/mail (ie no VOIP, VPN etc...) they're £5 internet add-on gives you 1gb of traffic for 30 days.

It works fine for me; I rarely make a phone call or send a text from my phone, I use it as a bluetooth modem with their £5 add-on. I figured that if (when) there was an Nx00 with HSPA I'd put my PAYG sim in it and get another for my phone.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

See http://www.internettablettalk.com/wi...United_Kingdom, you can get HSDPA access from 3 for as low as a fiver/month.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Well, sorta...

Skype, Gizmo, Comcast, Bongo, Truphone, Vontage, and everyone else that does a SIP will have to get on board with doing something according to a standard and then take down the ego side that says what they are doing is more profit making than what another is doing. By rules of a free market, two or three will come out on top as the most used, and then the rest will fight over niche opinions from users.

Does Nokia (Google, carriers, and cable cos) have the moxie and the power to create a standard for such use. Because that would indeed make for the end (or at least a heck of a suite of competition) for voice services as we know them now.

----
Given what we have seen about the Internet Tablet timeline, it would seem to me that the next device to be released would be something that's more of a replacement to the 770 than anything else. Something of a kit device that is almost like the low end car in a model series. Something to display the product, and development potential, but open the door to the N800 being replaced with something a bit more advanteageous.

Now, putting together a few dispiarate facts:
- we could see an AMOLED screen considering Nokia's recent request to increase production of said screen types
- we should see at least one new web browser, maybe two
- some type of video out would be there
- and maybe a new suite of development tools considering the jump that this should be for the platform

All in all, seems like Nokia/Maemo is setting up a bigger snowball from the device side than just an increase in device specs. Something says that Step 5 could indeed be like the Morph Concept, if not exactly (nanotech is a beatly subject) but given the OS advancement, the functionality could open the hardware to look and be considerably different.

-----
I want to sit and agree that HSDPA will be bad for the platform; and it could be. Given what we have seen from the wireless manangement issues and successes of the current ITs, it would be something rightly called into question.

However, it would be shortsighted to see the opening more of the platform in this respect as something that would kill it. What will kill it is pricing, legislation, and a general mismarketing of the device. I'm hopeful that in pricing and marketing that Nokia will get it right. Not because they want to, but because of devices like the HTC Touch HD, Xperia X1, Toshiba G910, and iPhone which are all very similar devices and now all have a very similar feature set and aim.

To take that view that adding this will be bad though is to be stuck in a comfortable place in one's way of use and you no longer want to be challenge. Open source, mobile, and internet technologies are about challenging and changing paradigms for the betterment of all. Some steps are easier to see than others, some are easier to attain than others. But a step forward is always a step into an uncomfortable unknown. Given how much the ITT community has stood by a tablet that has pretty much marketed itself, its probably time to put down the defensive mindset that change is bad, and pick up the mindset that you are leaders in a type of computing that is very much the stuff of dreams.

----
Nokia becoming a services company that leverages open source methodologies and technologies will pit private industries against and with governaments for matters of communication. Reminds me a bit of the history of the Christian church, wonder if anyone is studying history and trying not to repeat the same mistakes.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Ari Jaaksi's blog post

Today's slides on slideshare

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

hmm, SIP. from my limited understanding, SIP is only about setting up a connection between two parties, beyond that there is no single say about what codecs and so on to use ones that connection is in place...

and i dont think skype even uses SIP, but some other homegrown solution...

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

SIP (Session Initiation Protocol) is indeed used to set up the call, it also handles authentication and codec handshakes. The actual call happens over RTP. However, when most people say SIP, they mean SIP/RTP.

Skype uses a proprietary, closed-source, evil(?) codec

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Genuine idea: use open standards. How about SIP (RFC 3261)?

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

We have dozens of commercial VoIP operators here, including the market leader in voice telephony. It's quite an important market, with most commercial customers switching from POTS to VoIP.

I'm not aware of any standards set by the regulation body, but as they all use SIP, there's no interoperability problem. SIP+RTP+ENUM is a combination that works fine.

So I think this will not be a problem. Skype, of course, is out of this game and will probably be gone sooner or later as they cannot join the real business and rely on "I want voice calls for free"-crowd.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Interesting. More info on three.co.uk

T&Cs don't seem to mention any minimum top-up either. So an HSPA version does seem practical in the UK.

Hopefully, there'll be good switching from HSPA -> WLAN when in range of a configured connection - which is currently a big downside of the "Connect automatically to Bluetooth" functionality.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

For me, WiMAX is pretty useless.

I'm very, very happy with this announcement. I don't promise I buy a device unless I paid it (or fronted / partly paid), but I am very much looking forward to this device.

I will use it for SIP, won't need non-data plan. I also know good deals for data plans. Yes, these cost some money, but they give the device so much more power. Non-24/7 connectivity is simply no competition to good smartphones.

Many thanks to Nokia for listening to the community!! Vote with your wallet. I'm sure there will be more devices.

As for PIM, all the NIT needs is some dedication to port one, good PIM application to maemo making it good enough for usage. The NIT isn't meant to be the best device for all its possible usages. The power lies in its wide flexibility (quite related to the FLOSS nature of the bird but dont forget size, weight, low power). PIM however, is software side. From what I read in this news this post is solely about the hardware side. For now, we know little to nothing about the software side...

My experience is that you have to put all electronic devices off when the plan takes off and lands. Even a DAP. If you know what you're doing, you might not do this, but such rule exists to protect the innocent (read: clueless). Besides that, you must disable all radio (including WLAN, 3G, BlueTooth, ...). The rule is that you have to set the device in offline mode. Incidently, that is why that feature is called offline mode.

SIP is between your software/hardware phone (SIP client) and the SIP server (PBX). Whatever happens from the SIP server (PBX) or the person you're talking to is of no concern to normal end users. For example, I'm able to get attractive prices phoning international using SIP. The other person can reside anywhere in the world.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I hope we don't get further bogged down in semantics on this one. :D

My experience, at least with American Airlines, is that they are fine with offline as an effective off state. In fact on my last trip I noticed that was inserted into the pre-takeoff spiel.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I've not experienced it, and their top-ups don't expire either. I've been using this for about 12 months now, no complaints, I probably put on £20 every 3 months or so. And with it being PAYG, worst case if they cut you off you just go and buy another SIM from them and start all over again.

I tried the mobile broadband, the only thing additional I got that was of use to me was VOIP and that was pretty patchy. I've also streamed from shoutcast and last.fm on the £5 add-on with no problems.

[edit] I've also made several skype-to-skype calls from my n800 over Three, as I have a friend on it. Each top-up gives 30 days of skype-to-skype, so I'm not sure whether it was free because of that or the internet add-on

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

"Dear Zir/Ma'am, we're zorry zoo inform you zat you have zoo put your device off. Zis means no Zuspend-To-RAM. Next time, consider to fly business class. Zorry for any inconvencience this may cause."

No warries, ze Dr. Ztrangelove has zpoken :confused:

Really, its just there to protect the innocent. If someone doesn't know what offline mode is or how to put a device in this mode, disable the device. If in doubt, axe zit or exit. ;)

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

all this discussion points to one good thing about what nokia is implementing in the NIT the CHOICE for the end user; 1, tablet with wifi and bluetooth- 2, or tablet with wifi and wimax and bluetooth - 3, tablet with 3G/4G and wifi and bluetooth, well if this is what they are doing then everyone might find his taste but i do not know anything about thier plans though.