Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

Ha! Outed!

Penguinbait is John Titor!!!!!

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

Those talking of the NIT as a computer (a Linux one at that) is in the same class (or nearly) as Steve Jobs when he says the iPhone is Apple's netbook.

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/21/read-my-lips/

No the definition of a computer is not a problem at all. The definition of anything is based on what the general understanding of its function and form and context is to most of the people in the world.
A computer by that definitiopn means in generic terms - a PC like computer to most people. I get your point that a Voting machine is a computer and so is so many other things (like this for example), But just having a chip in a device doesn't make it a computer in general terms. Its the function that it serves that defines it more.

In that sense I don't think the iPhone is a Netbook or the NIT a Linux computer.

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

And this is where I consider you wrong. I run a full fledged Debian Linux on my Tablet.

That's not a Linux mobile, not a windows CE, not a miniscule runned down crappy version of some hacked OS to fit on some mobile device whose function is to remember the crap I can't be arsed to figure out..

No.. I run a full (and one of the most popular) Linux OS's on my tablet complete with nearly all the exact and identical software I run on my Laptop and my Desktop. Complete with a USB keyboard, and mouse.

In any definition of the term "Computer".. My tablet fits it. It might not run as well as my Laptop. But screaming about that makes people look downright stupid.. you're comparing a 400mhz processor with 128MB ram to a 2.0ghz Centrino with 2GB memory and a video card with 256+mb Memory. By that argument my Laptop puts anyone's Netbook to shame.

Yes, obviously, the better the physical hardware.. the faster the computer.. but my Tablet functions exactly as a "normal" old P1 or PII class machine with 128MB ram would function.

That is a PC. The iPhone is not.. the iPhone runs a hacked, run down, crappy version of some kind of proprietary OS that has a specific purpose. Not the same device by a long shot.

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

may i ask then, what is the definition of a PC?

both the ibm compatible desktop defintion and the latop equivalent have come and gone imo...

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

The interesting (and scary) thing about that article was that Jobs hinted that Apple is going to come out with a next-gen tablet that will be competing head-to-head with the n900. I mean, why not? A bigger display, faster processor, camera, etc; of course they're adding these to the next generation Apple product. Do we think that Apple is sitting on their hands? And the scary thing (to those of us who want Nokia to win here) is that Jobs, as usual, "gets it." While everyone is raving on about netbooks, he sees that the future is handheld. And while everyone else is struggling to make ends meet in this economic downturn, Apple is going to be busy pouring their massive resourses into making handheld devices that consumers won't be able to resist.

My observation so far has been that when people say Jobs is wrong, they're wrong.

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

the really scary thing is that said handheld will be as locked down as the iphone, but as any current user of itunes and its halo of services can just grab one of these new devices and transfer their "life" onto it, it will win, no matter what...

itunes/itms is to apple what gmail and friends is to google...

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

I'd have no problems buying an Apple Tablet.. if it'll support open source.

If it's anything like the iPhone and all the decent software is pay-per-use... no thanks. No matter how "spiffy" he dresses it up it's just Mac OS X in disguise. Mac OS X isn't completely horrid per se.. since it's unix based an all.. but it's so custom and proprietary it makes Mandrake look like a blessing from the heavens. And the FINK project is the best way to get any open source to work right with it.

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

the way i see it, osx is a closed source DE running on top of a open source kernel. this means they could in theory toss it onto just about any unix like kernel in the future, without having to change much.

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

I personally wouldn't be surprised if Apple would enter the UMPC space eventually with something inbetween the iPhone OS/device and their desktop OS/desktop devices. What that something actually is and where does it position itself on the line between these two platforms is an interesting question. If I would be a betting man, I'd bet more on the side of the desktop OS.

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

Not quite... The kernel was a unix kernel and was bought - not open source.. and the entire filesystem structure was completely changed. Nothing even looks remotely right when you drop to a terminal in Mac OS X. They didn't follow the FHS at all so far as I can tell..

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

from what i recall, the kernel is a bsd derivative, under the equivalent license.

as for the file system, i would suspect that beyond the basics needed to get the kernel and initial user space booted, it wil have more in common with mac os of old then unix. that is, dirs that looks like single files in finder, specific dirs where the user can just drop those "app dirs" so that the DE can find them and use them, and so on.

think of it as linux with rox on top...

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

I disavow all knowledge of any such person!

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

Actually, it's more like NeXTstep, which is Unix-based and predates the FHS.

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

Looks like you were right in it was open "Darwin" derivative at some point.. but:
Apple closes down OS X.

ETA:
Very interesting... thanks for the info.

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDarwin

and i keep forgetting about nextstep, that company and os that jobs got going in his years away from apple.

i still think i have a nextstep tv add somewhere where jobs shows of the email apps ability to have the file icons of attachments be located inline with the text itself.

he also talked about the RAD toolbox that was available with the os...

all in all, that add reminded me of the reality distortion field, as his enthusiasm for the product was contagious...

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

Sorry, but I believe you made my point, If the NIT changes to add smartphone capabilties, it is, well, a smartphone by definition. At that point, we're talking NIT/Maemo/Phone vs. iPhone vs. Windows Mobile, vs. Android vs. PalmOS

May the best platform win.

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

I think OpenDarwin is a perfect example of how a big company can't release some rough, basic code as "open source," tell the community to fix it up and get it useable, and then not provide much help beyond that.

From the OpenDarwin wiki article mentioned above, the OpenDarwin maintainers give reasons why they were shutting down the project:

Please, Nokia, don't go there!

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

In the long term I think you're right. I believe ultimately Nokia's plans for Maemo are to make it their flagship mobile phone OS (or simply to have internet tablets/smart phones merged), while keeping Symbian around for the cheaper "feature" phones. I think all the MID-type devices (including the tablets) probably will be squeezed out in the long-term.

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

I think "squeezed out" is the wrong term; I think handheld computers will, by necessity, include text / voice / video communication capabilities, but it is more a case of the "mobile phone" category disappearing, rather than the "mobile computer" disappearing.

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

The form factor nokia have used is both proven and practical.
What I see happening is more integration and hopefully closer ties with desktop/cloud applications so you can continue what you were doing whilst on the go.
Much like how I take my compiler and source with me, at a pinch I can fire up pygtkeditor and code, but then when I'm near any large format device I can stretch out and continue what I was doing.

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

Totally agree to you lcuk -
I think this is where Nokia Maemo platform should be going - instant connectivity to cloud application - which in turn means you can work on the same app/task from your IT in the tablet form and continue on the desktop/laptop/netbook in the desktop form of the app.

That is the kind of "port" we need in apps - not a direct copy of desktop application 'ported' to the tablet device.

I think the key concept being complimentary devices to the same task.

Ex : I use Skype/Gizmo (both) from the tablet extensively and talk/chat to my friends.
But when I want my parents to see my child - I obviously go to my desktop (in a cinch the Gizmo on the ITwill do), or when I want to share a photo with them while talking I use the desktop file-send feature of Skype/Gizmo.

Or as when I am using my calendar extensively linked to Google Calendar - i use it from all platforms - but on Tablet I use mCalendar as the Google calendar form factor.

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

heh, rent-a-cpu? want to do some compiling on a project, just fire up a page, upload the source in question, enter your credit card info, and get a mail/im/text (those things should merge sooner rather then later) when it done "cooking".

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

heh tso, what do you think extras-devel does ;)

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

hehe, referring to autobuilder i take it?

yep, something like that. but in a more generic form. now that i think about it, google and amazon may have something going of that nature now. but i guess its not really aimed at individuals...

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

Good point, but closed standards or being dependant on one external (data mining) corporation isn't the way the go IMO.

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

I have an Eee PC and a NIT. I used to carry the Nokia around all the time, but now I rarely touch it. It just doesn't do enough to make it worthwhile for me. I also rarely turn on my desktop computer, and gave my big laptop to my daughter. The Eee does just about everything I need, in a small (although admittedly not quite pocketable) package. For me, this is what I've been waiting years for. I realize it's not for everyone, but for me it's just about perfect. What would be perfect would be something about the size of an N8*0, but which would actually run real programs like a desktop, and had a typable keyboard. The laser-projected keyboard might eventually work, and with that the NIT form factor might work for me. Until then, my NIT won't be of much use to me, it's just a novelty.

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

real software? would that be windows software or x86 compiled linux software? thing is, the tablets run "real" software, hust like any other computer. it just may not run the most common software platform out there (yet)...

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

The OS doesn't really matter, but I find that spreadsheets, word processing, and most other apps that I use every day just don't work on the tablet. It's bad enough using the small screen, but input is a joke. It's just not possible for me to do it efficiently and quickly enough to make it worthwhile. Without a real keyboard, the device just isn't practical for my use. A touchscreen is fine for a PDA, but the NIT is obviously not a PDA. I realize there are NIT zealots who use them for everything, but it just doesn't work for me.

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

Have you tried a good bt keyboard?

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

Did you consider using it as a paper weight? :p

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

Hey, welcome back Frankowitz.

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

Does anybody else find it absolutely bizarre the number of people we get around here that just can't move on?

I mean, damn, Nokia must really have something on their hands if it can generate so much interest for people that ostensibly hate the tablets. :rolleyes:

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

heh, i think its more that they have no better source of amusement. apple bashing is to mainstream these days ;)

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

I think that Nokia should note the number of people associated with this site who have obviously bought Netbooks and be aware that most of that money could have flowed to Nokia if it could have devised a product they wanted to buy.

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

...and then, bizarrely, kept hanging around here for some reason...

Perhaps we should call it the Karel Jansens syndrome? :D

But at least he still owns a couple tablets, right?

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

As a standalone "This is my only computer" I agree.
But -
With AbiWord I can keep extensive Word documentation in my pocket and update with small notes easily when needed.

With Gnumeric I can easily keep large single sheet spreadsheets in my pocket and update, modify etc.

Yesterday I had a small spreadsheet of about 50 computers we are getting rid of. I just walked in to the storage area where they were and updated/corrected bar codes, sn's quantities etc,

I produce the final, check it twice, and email, then drop my camera, GPS, word processor, encrypted password holder, email device, mp3 player, net surfing machine back in my shirt pocket with my glasses, sticky notes, and a couple of pens.

Everybody else either walks around with paper and transcribes (and introduces mistakes) then emails. Or they have to carry a laptop to the storage area.

Then when someone has a question about the spreadsheet created they have to dig it out or go to a computer. I just turn my music off and fire off Gnumeric and I have the answer.

My way seems more efficient.

Yes the small screen is a pain - we need a flexible roll out unit, and the keyboard could be better, but having a computer in my pocket that's the size of a reading glass case and runs for many hours is well worth it to me.

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

Good to see you again, sgosnell, :-)

I do data entry on spreadsheet 5 to 10 times a day. YES, 5 to 10 times a day, everyday, and of course today too :)

Ironically spreadsheet is what got me interested in the tablet in the very 1st place. I was using winCE, a Dell Axim which is still sitting at the table top corner now, the screen real estate is so small, that even with the 'real' M$ excel, I see only 3 columns and 7 rows. Yah, you have excel, but it is pretty much useless because of the small screen real estate/resolution, kind of like using spreadsheet on a cell phone, then I came across 770 with numeric ............................

My point, just like everything in life, large and small is relative.

I do agree with you about data entry on the tablet is not ideal. However, the tradeoff is you do not have to hold onto a thing most of the time, you can leave the tablet in a pocket whereas eeePC cannot. Of course, if the only choice is a large laptop vs eeePC, I would take a eeePC too.

I have tried to tuck along a BT keyboard for the tablet....nay, after only 1 day, I gave up, poking/handwriting on the tablet is quite ok if the alternative is to carry an extra object all day. I also tried VNC at some point, but the VNC data entry has problem with capitalizing the letters 'at will'.

I tuck out my eeePC only when I am in a car, because I know there is enough space and unlimited supply of battery. Otherwise, on the street, in airport, in restaurant, waiting in line, almost everywhere I go, I use the tablet because of the form factor AND battery life

bun

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

Are they ibm thinkpads? 560s? 600s? how do you get rid of them? If they need a warm, sweet, loving home, you are looking at one :-)

bun

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

Hey Bun,
I have 3 or 4 frankenstiened Pentium 3's if you are looking to adopt :D

Re: An 'internet' tablet or a Linux computer?
 

Did we talk about that, the small screen, in the past? I think the n900 is equipped with a projector like function, one can project on the wall to read the spread sheet or WorldTV99, something like that. I am pretty sure i read it somewhere at the itT forum ....

bun