Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

There's the denial I was talking about.

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

Buyer denial = that's wrong

Customers buy - in innovation - if the provider is the first (time to markets)

and at a good price / profit (see example Apple iPhone or Asus eee)

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

Frank I think you've been programming too long. :p

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

It's okay to try to pin me down, but it's kind of difficult in an online forum, isn't it?! ;-)

Anyway, we don't have anything to announce on the Maemo 5 lead device right now. I understand that it would be important and fun to know more about the upcoming products but Nokia has a large business and launch dates are a complex issue. If you launch too early, you loose the excitement until the sales start. If you loose too early, you might cannibalize your existing product portfolio. If you launch too late then you don't give enough time for application and content developers to create content. If you launch too late, then you increase the risk for product leakages. If you launch too late, then you can't do wide-spread field testing with regular customers risking quality at sales start. And so on... The race is still on whether the Asus P565’s, the Palm Pre, or any Android MID will actually ship in a place near you before the lead device for Maemo 5.

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

Palm seems a bit closer to me right now. Plus, they've just got too much riding on getting it into consumer hands to not be putting everything they've got into this product.

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

http://www.umpcportal.com/2009/01/us...ith-windows-xp

hmm will it launch before this? i have a feeling intel mids are going to overtake the market and leave nokia behind.

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

Peter, you raise some good points, but if you look at the past history you see that time to market and price in the end is the key point. Often it is not the best product that succeeds (see beta vs VHS).

And regarding financial crisis, people tend to cut on traveling, buying expensive items (e.g. cars), but the sales of gadgets increase, because they are a cheap way to boost the moral. It is cheaper to buy a X360 for the kids than to take the kids out to amusement parks... Just look at the most sold items in EU and US in the last months.

I do hope Nokia releases the N900 sooner than later, otherwise it may miss the boat. ASUS, LG and Samsung move fast.
I am considering replacing by N800 and the N95 by the N97. With the N97, the N900 will not provide much value added (I have a Netboot-tablet to fill the gap).

However, I do appreciate to see the strong support of Maemo community. It is like the Amiga PC user's group activity when I was kid.

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

It's a shame what happened to you, but (touch wood) I'm fairly confident in keeping my job this year. Other people will too.

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

Very valid point. We aware of this. But VHS versus BetaMax was more a fight about technologies. And the licensing terms made all the difference at the end, even for an inferior product. The technology battle is another, yet linked, battle than the fight for the consumer's hearts and minds.

With Palm coming out with the Web OS, the choice for developers has just become again more fragmented, but Linux as a choice has been again strengthened.

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

exactly. skipping a step is what I was getting at - is it "step 4" that is being skipped?

And 've been folowing other threads about it GA, but things do seem to be changing and morphing, so I think it's a valid question in this thread.

and, if after all this wait, development, etc etc, if this ISNT step 5 of 5 (ie the final, non-geek mainstream consumer-friendly end product) then i really think they've missed the boat.

Also, if this is going to be step 4, i think step 5 really will include a 3d printer, telporatation unit and cloaking device!

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

Counting steps is like counting sheep: the more you count, the more tired you will get. It's not like step 4 is nothing and step 5 is everything and there would be no step 6. Just hop along ... and enjoy the ride. ;)

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

No, and the discussion about what step the RX-51 represented took place well after it was made clear that Elephanta had been cancelled. Maemo 5 and the RX-51 are step 4.

The relevant morphing and changing took place before it was made clear Maemo 5 with the RX-51 was step 4. ;)

Missed the boat on what? It isn't as if the whole market's suddenly going to dry up in the next 6 months.

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

I didn't see that in the Nokia materials! When will it be released and can it fit in my pocket??

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

Every time you ask the price goes up $1000 and they add another 6 months to the release date.

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

I'm reasonably certain many people have been saying that and are now unable to find employment. It's not like he didn't have a valid point, under the global circumstances.

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

My turn. I read all the post and I only wanna say one thing: the economic situation is not going to make people buy cheaper, but buy beater. We got used to change phones and tablets every year and pay 700 bugs for a new device simply because it was a little bit faster or had another color. But devices are getting the point watches got long ago. All watches give you the hour. So the point now is what watch I buy that is durable, I can feel proud with. If N900 manages to be a long selling device it will last against its only competition iPhone. If not it will happen to it the same that with the rest of the industry: too many diferent systems that don't last enough to have a strong comunity creating software on it.

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

So after a year and a half, N900 needs to:
1) Have an almost perfect keyboard you can use as fast as a computers one (n810 keyboard is not sensible enough).
2) Cool interface.
3) Great connection with your Nokia phone: That means you shouldn't even take your phone out of your pocket to use it: PIM editing and call through bluetooth.
4) portrait and landscape modes. Shouldn't have to use both hands.
5) Cool exterior. Must fell durable.
6) Intelligent elections: Use of MiniUSB instead of MicroUSB makes it unnecessary to carry arround a wire. Use of SD Cards or MicroSD cards make you able to have more HD available or at least it doesn't make you carry an stupid Mini-Micro converter.
7) A little bit bigger screen will not harm if weight is not affected.
8) Look and Feel: All major projects such as Canola or a PIM should feel integrated.
9) Abandon stupid restrictions: Surely Phones/iPhones way to startup aplications are better for a touchable tablet that the windows/kde like Start button of Maemo (needless to say that the three start buttons are horrible). Don't be afraid to try new things but never be afraid to turn back when those prove to be worse.

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

or perhaps - is Samsung faster with this innovation in 2009 - as the Nokia N900 availability - I hope not :)

http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/09/o...exible-screen/

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadgetm...es0001main.jpg

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

I think at some point we have to stop using the step 1 to 5 analogy. This analogy was presented when? Was it the Web2.0 event in end of 2007? Obviously, a lot of things have changed, both in Maemo evolution and in the industry since then. What is it we are trying to identify by step 4 and step 5. Step 5 being the final step of ???

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

I think foldable screens have the potential to turn a smartphone into a internet tablet competitor.

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

heh, lets not forget about that crazy folding device patent application that nokia recently filed.

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

No offense, Jaffa, but that's rather trite. Check the latest:

http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/09/mark...ion=2009010904

If anything I'm being conservative. People would be well-served by addressing the economic crisis seriously instead of blithely assuming it's all going to go away soon. Again: the impact has not yet been felt. The worst is yet to manifest.

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

Regarding that "step" discussion, and the future for the tablets in general, take a look at an Interview with Anssi Vanjoki:

http://www.mobile-review.com/article...anssi-en.shtml

The rest of the interview is also quite interesting and definitely worth a read.

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

It is shame, that this can be seen in 2-5 years. so there's no point arguing about this now. Only time will tell for sure. Unless you have ported some kind of fortune teller that is always right into your tablet..

But in the world economy there isn't any significant movement into brighter future yet. And the multiplicative effect works with delays.

ps. to the guy who said that nokia will fall: if you look the competitors stock price movement in one day and make your decisions by that, I feel really sorry for you for typing that here...

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

sure, I have never looked at the evolution of the device reaching some 'step 5' and becoming set in stone - BUT, it was presented as a nokia roadmap, and GA asserts that the next device is step 4 of 5, and so that leaves me thinking what is going to be "held back" in the next generation that will stoip it being a "consumer ready" device for the mass market?

and if this is the case it's bloody stupid on nokia's part.

so, is the '5 step' thing not something to bear in mnd anymore? GA?

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

Probably the past year's research, and the next year's development.

One doesn't make a multi-year plan assuming better hardware components won't become available, and software naturally evolves over a series of devices.

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

I think I'll simply spend the 2009 budget for gadgets on beer...
Makes simply more sense...

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

The point of a 5-step plan is that each step builds on the last. "Step 5" becomes easier/cheaper/quicker by having a "step 4". So RX-51 will have the best hardware that Nokia can afford to put in it at the price point it's targetting, and will have the best software that Nokia can develop in the time available.

There won't be a discussion of "well, this is step 4 so let's not make it nice and usable"; there'll be discussions of "well, if we do this nice feature it may sell better, but it'll push the release date out"; or "the hardware's not up to it, but by the time the N1000 comes out with Harmattan, there'll be more grunt to play with".

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

Didn't step 5 meant Consumer Ready? As in working out-of-the-box, grandma-certified, lots of apps and most importantly ADVERTISED. The previous Tablets were just a niche product, were never advertised and considered a linux geek gadget. Not that it's a bad thing...
So... in regard of that, will the next Tablet be step 5? :D

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

Step 5 : Same plan than Cortex (The Brain in english) (Pinky and the Brain) ...

... Biological Recombinant Algorithmic Intelligence Nexus ...

http://img.presence-pc.com/news/m/i/...sizedTo560.jpg

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

Ah, so much energy invested in threads like this one...

Nokia hibernating? Silence? We are around maemo.org and related upstream projects every day. We actually comment a lot, also about future plans, compared to the usual practices in this industry.

If you want to know more about the future of the Maemo platform and even help forge it, go to http://bugs.maemo.org or http://www.octofish.net/bugjar/ and vote, comment on the features that interest you more. Or create new requests if what matters to you is missing.

There is quite a lot known about Fremantle thanks to the push done by people like you investing their time in fruitful work there and also looking at the pre-alpha release done in December. And there are even some sparks about Harmattan.

About the 5 steps/generations, a tip: don't get too obsessed. In his posicion as vice-president of Markets, Anssi Vanjoki talks mainly about hardware (discrete objects) while Maemo SW people like Peter, ragnar or myself talk mainly about software (continuous development). This is why you see the software people less concerned about such steps. Think also that you, me, Anssi or Peter might have very different barometers for what "mass consumer products" means.

And don't get obsessed because you are going to be impressed by Fremantle and are going to be impressed by Harmattan as well.

About the devices to come with Maemo inside... trust Nokia. B) If you liked the progress 770 --> N800 --> N810 you are probably going to love what comes next.

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

LOL. Ridiculous! How much per MB does it cost? And do they not allow that they instead cap you, or close your subscription for the rest of the month? Do they notify you that you reached the limit?

It really depends on what you use your device for. You can download some heavy bandwidth stuff via your WLAN, USB, or BlueTooth. Just surfing around will not cost you much (especially not if you'd use Opera Mini btw) except for things like software downloads, some big pictures and Flash (banners, Youtube). Using specially crafted websites like .mobi won't burn much.Things like checking your e-mail, getting updates on OMWeather, using AGPS hardly use data traffic while they're very useful being able to use 24/7 as is the case with a good WWAN network. With current tablet you can grab RSS feeds in the morning and use 'em throughout the day, and check your e-mail in morning too. With WWAN, you can do this throughout the day, and the traffic is really minimal. Just be careful wrt roaming. All in all, for the usages I described you'd have more than enough with 400 MB. The added latency does not matter for something like OMWeather either. Think about it: 13 MB a day, and if they're a nice corporation they won't bother about a few MB more one month if you use a few MB less the other month.

My issue is rather. Will they allow a mobile phone subscription, or a laptop subscription? The laptop subscriptions are more expensive. But allow more data being used, and do allow tethering. This is calculated in the price of the subscription.

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

If you look in some threads about economy I clearly described how the economy is based on a lot of hot air. It has to collapse one time. Might be now, might be later. If you make money digital its even more easily created allowing more flexible handling.

If you take that into account, and look at the price of hardware which has been going down for years, you might see how devices are still sold if the economy doesn't completely go boom (my assumption) provided the devices are useful. I don't know about you, but a device which gives me a lot of information about what is going on in the world and allows me to manage my communication whereever I am is a godsend. (And if it will have some kind of user-friendly PIM then I won't need to use my E71 for that anymore either.)

If the economy goes completely boom however there are a lot of other issues than Fremantle. You'd save your prayers to have a roof above your head with some -I mean any- food while your income is the same but the money worth jack and squat because of inflation. Case in point: Iceland. If that happens, Nokia and a lot of other tech corporations go bust, and the government will have its prioritoes to save corporations for example those which are important for infrastructure.

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

I can only say that after having using a N800 for a while, with the latest Diablo release, I feel it a little fragile and slow, but still gets the job done (after some research). It is a swiss-army knife, but with some blades missing, some that I need to add on my own using complex instructions and others that doesn't seem to match the set.

I hope that Fremantle has the impressive and robust UI that the Palm Pre is showing... It has a OMAP 3430 inside, and it shows. I have been a Nokia user for many years, and I know they trade UI/usability for raw features, but improving user experience is something that is getting overdue for them.

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

The situation appears to me that it will fall between your two bookends. At some point this year significant numbers of consumers will be seen to drastically change their spending habits, but it won't be enough to put the likes of Nokia out of business.

One problem with economic downturns is that companies overreact, and individual people underreact. That is in fact what's going on as we speak.

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

That brings me to the question:

Why did nokia think that touchscreen phones were not the right thing of the future? I mean the 7710 was a good phone with a great screen at that point..... why did they chose to close down the touchscreen series? I mean it was so obvious that touch was going to be the future. Apple just came in and it became the inventor of everything!

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

We all know that fremantle is going to be great and so on. But we are just a little frustrated for not having a new hardware since more than 2 years. I understand there is major re-structuring and am really happy.. but it is just that frustration, that is all.

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

yeah, there really should have been an N800 follow-up IMO.

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

I also have no clue about these statistics regarding decembre. Sure, people might have spend more than in a previous year, but that does not mean much. They might have saved up. Or cannot save up now anymore. I know my expenses are increasing a lot this year... (but still, like I said, a perfect or near-perfect device would be a good investment. A toy, no thanks.)

Anyway, you would rather not want to see Nokia jumping further on touchscreen bandwagon? Then what? The competition would then sell these devices as of now, and have to quit that later this year when the bubble is truelly at its bursting end? Or, you think by the time the devices are released the bubble is already bursting leaving Nokia with stock of mass produced devices which aren't selling? When one then argues Nokia was too late, that'd be accurate conclusion?

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

Which harkens to my favorite line from NewsRadio: "Midnight was just a loose guideline. I'm dealing with a corporation here, not magical fairies."