Re: What does my avatar say?
 

I don't have any tattoos, if that's what you mean....

I actually don't know what that means.

I guess it is as I said above, the whole bugzilla process feels like it is against the bug reporter. "You found a bug? I don't see a bug. You sure you found a bug? Prove it!"

When I report problems to developers here in the forums, the responses from the developers are mostly friendly, and generally, the assumption is that the report is true unless proven false. In the bug system, it is the other way around. It is that way by design.

Yes, nothing against Niels. It is the system that is broken. The system treats the reporter like the suspect.

The bugzilla has improved, yes, thanks to pressure from people like sjgadsby, and hiring a bugmaster, but all my experiences with it have been poor.

Well, I'm not sure who voted me onto the Council (see, that's the problem with the STV system; you get unintended side effects like me), but I'm not going to pretend to like things about maemo.org just because I'm a council member.

Re: What does my avatar say?
 

Bugzilla is not a support system. Bug reports need to be accurate, clear and complete for engineers to have any chance of reproducing bugs and fixing them. Otherwise you end up wasting the reporter's time and the engineer's time playing back-and-forth trying to figure out all of the information that should've been included in the initial bug report (of course, this is why you have you have triagers, to make sure the report is clear, complete and reproducible before it's sent to the engineers).

If support is what you're after then Bugzilla is not where you should be. Please see these forums, the mailing lists or IRC for support channels.

Of course it's that way by design, because if you setup Bugzilla as a support system then everything falls to pieces.
Engineers aren't support staff. They're not paid for it, their workflow isn't setup for it, and they're often not qualified for it.

No, you're just coming to Bugzilla for the wrong reasons. :) If you want to be a user, then you have to be a user. Users don't use bug trackers, they go through the expected support channels.

When, however, you decide that you want to work with the cogs in the machine your role changes, and it's expected that when your role changes the expectations placed upon you will change and the responsibilities will change. One of the responsibilities of being a bug reporter is that you're expected to provide a lot of detailed information about the issue you're experiencing. One of the responsibilities of being a council member is to not encourage discord when it's neither merited nor deserved. ;)

I'm not saying Bugzilla is perfect, nor that work is done on improving it (a guided submission form has been one of my pet bugs for a while), but you seem to want to change Bugzilla's role into something it's not suited for, wasn't designed for and shouln't try to fill.

What Quim was referring to had nothing to do with aspects of maemo.org, it had to do with not undeservedly denigrating maemo.org staff members and sewing the seeds of discord in the community. You should've checked the bug to be sure of the situation instead of assuming the leveled complaint was accurate (turns out it was intended as a joke, but I'm fairly certain you were operating as if it were a serious complaint). There was no hostility in the bug, and the bug process was proceeding as usual (whether or not you agree with that process is a completely separate issue).

Re: What does my avatar say?
 

I agree. Let's work on that together, shall we?

Re: What does my avatar say?
 

Back on topic: I just noticed MY avatar doesn't say anything anymore. At first I was disturbed (more than usual) but I realize the cropped version is more mysterious. Cool. I can work with that.

Back off topic: qole, you sneaky, snarky devil... :D

Re: What does my avatar say?
 

There was no thanks button, so here

Thanks,

Re: What does my avatar say?
 

Perhaps he was referring to the avatar, which is drawn, is that a beaver, or is that what a qole looks like :D

Re: What does my avatar say?
 

This is why the community voted for you and wants you there. To me this puts you in the best position to be able to provide unbiased input.

Keep up the great work, we need your honest input and community support.

Re: What does my avatar say?
 

I believe the word qgil was looking for is "illustrious".

Re: What does my avatar say?
 

No, that couldn't be it. That makes no sense in context. Neither does "Illiterate," since he said I was educated. Hmm. "Illegitimate?" No, I was born in wedlock. "Illiberal," "illusive" or "illusory"? Perhaps. "Ill-mannered?" Yes, I am, but was that what he meant?

Just to wander back on-topic for a brief moment:

I cropped and shrank my avatar (drawn by Elia, by the way) to keep as much detail as possible in the tiny space available. I didn't want to just shrink the picture down.

Because then the illustration would be illegible.

Re: What does my avatar say?
 

Now you're just being silly.

Re: What does my avatar say?
 

Re: What does my avatar say?
 

I think Quim was just being illegorical.

Re: What does my avatar say?
 

I guess illuminated is the word...

Re: What does my avatar say?
 

As opposed to qole and you, I don't have such good knowledge of English. Consider that "illustrated" as an enhancement request. :)

La Ilustración is the period known in English as Age of Enlightenment and a person ilustrada is someone that has acquired a lot of knowledge from books and other illustrative sources. I guess the right translation would be cultivated.

Re: What does my avatar say?
 

Very cool. Cultivated. Like a field in springtime. I smell like one too.

Seriously, though, I would love to be a Renaissance Man; knowing something about everything, throwing my cloak before queens...

Re: What does my avatar say?
 

I agree, Qole is enlightened and full of wisdom....

Still not sure if cultivated is the correct word.

How about "wise beyond his years" as qoles usually are???

Re: What does my avatar say?
 

The German word would be better. Aufklärung (=Age of Enlightenment) also means "sex education". So being a person ilustrada translates to being aufgeklärt, which means someone told you 'bout the birds and the bees. And knowing that you know all of this already keeps us from having some very tricky threads in the future. ;)

Re: What does my avatar say?
 

If it was cultivated. ...wisdom is not what he would be full of then. :eek:

Re: What does my avatar say?
 

What if we try to fill in as much info as possible, but it's a bug that behaves strangely and is genuinely difficult to reproduce? Should we just not report it? Do the engineers want to know about such unclear but genuine cases? (These are all serious questions.)

Re: What does my avatar say?
 

I did not mean to imply that a bug to be submitted must be 100% reliably reproducible. The (unfortunate) reality is that many bugs aren't easily or reliably reproducible. Take the race condition on startup for late-run N800s, for instance, whose causes were environmental related and quite bizarre. It's the nature of bugs to often be difficult to reproduce and difficult to fix (if they weren't, it's unlikely that they'd've shipped in the first place).

No, you should just make sure you have as much information as you can gather about the bug when you submit your report.

I don't know if they really want to know, but. . . . ;)

Many bugs do fall into this category, as they're the type that's likely to be missed during normal testing and QA procedures and, thus, to make it into releases, and of course engineers want to ship the most bug free code they reasonably can. The key with reports of this type is to make sure you either get as close to figuring out what reliably reproduces the bug (some seemingly semi-random bugs only seem that way because you've missed a hidden trigger variable, like "it only happens between midnight and 1 AM", or "it only fails when there's an SD card in the slot"*), or provide as much information as you can come up with (even if you don't think it's relevant—if you can't fix the bug yourself you can be reasonably certain that you're not going to be able to accurately judge what might and might not be pertinent ;)) to give the triager or engineer the best chance of reproducing it themselves.


*This is what was causing sleep failures on my Dell Mini 9, but it took me a while to connect having an Sd card in the slot to failures.

Re: What does my avatar say?
 

Hee hee, I'm glad someone got it. I wasn't sure... :)

Re: What does my avatar say?
 

I think the Bugzilla discussion is important enough for its own thread.