Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

There were 4 arrow keys on this keyboard. They were placed on the lower right corner of the keyboard.

So the up cursor was on row 2 and the other ones were on row 3.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

No. And all of the development devices had the same "form factor". Again: These were no polished devices. Just the hardware put together so no outlook on the final product possible.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

3 rows of keys

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

So having (hopefully) addressed some specifics... here are my thoughts:

Wow!!

And that is not really for the device - it's for the people!

I've worked for a major UK telco for a while and unless you've been in a similar position it really is hard to understand how much effort is clearly going into being open with Maemo... and when you meet these people in person... that impression just gets stronger and stronger.

However... the exclamation also applies to the device :)

My impressions... kinda replaying the timeline of my experience....

It's solid but more manageable than the N800. The plastic casing is a bit lumpy and bumpy and you can't really say how smooth it will be to handle. A black theme is going to look very cool (but someone commented that the SDK theme is not going to be on the product).

The screen feel is smooth and precise. The UI is different and I spent many many seconds figuring it out ;)

I was impressed with the responsiveness (though I expected no less) and the sharpness of the image.

The "click outside the box" thing is different but works well on the device... (later I thought it could be annoying if developers start nesting things too deeply). It is really nice to see too; the blurring of the background is very cool and *very* effective as a usability hint. The whole gui experience was great.

There was no other application SW installed on mine (#7) but IIRC the Application Manager had much improved categories ;)

It has a stylus... small but present... so that's good. I don't recall actually using it though.

There's a camera on the front.... and another on the back and flash leds? :cool:
I tried to look inside and count the pixels but gave up at 2 million :rolleyes:

No stand obvious though... but the final case may provide that.

Keyboard.... as I posted, the keyboard is great. I typed happily on it and the soft keys on the x-terminal worked well. Shame about the tab but I can see the sense to omit that from the hard keys.

At this point (having spent a while moving around the UI) I actually noticed the screen size as I launched xterm. It felt a bit small for hacking in; I think that's because the font was big (pixels) and it reminded me of an N800 xterm with a virtual keyboard. Having thought about it a bit more I did a little test and when I held the N800 at a 'normal' distance (about 50cm) I found that holding the new device a few cm closer (45cm... not exactly tip of your nose!) gave the same perceived screen size... I reckon this is why it worked.

It was odd though ... I had to lie it on top of my N800 to convince myself the screen was actually smaller and it still didn't compute. Having used it I personally do not think the screen size is an issue.

OK.... later on I had the chance to get the Mer version (arm 5) of Qt running on it and that worked well (although I can reveal that you run out of space on the flash when you install big chunks of Ubuntu).

There are some bugs when you rotate the screen (nb there was no automatic accelerometer to RandR link in the prototype) and the scroll and redraw speed was really bad... apparently that has fixed but the demo version didn't have it.

My Mer/Qt application ran nicely on it, looked really good and "just worked".

I note that the discussions around 3D suggested to me there was some internal frustration with the hardware limitations and they'd like to do more; I don't know if this relates to the driver or the HW.

There was no opportunity to look at the functionality of the GPS or camera(s).

Overall I had very little to want to change... I think the only bug I'm going to file is that when I lie it on the table with the keyboard open then I want the screen to wake up when I pick it up :cool:

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

Well, it was very informal and lots of people made comments and I'm 100% sure that they were listened to.

Hardware: There's almost no point feeding back on hardware. OTOH I had nothing to feedback as long as it works.

Software: Immense interest and communication around how to make it better... Verification to us that the SDK UI works. Also suggestions were made (by us) as to how the docs and guidelines could be developed. I personally shared thoughts on API for screen orientation - but that's on the -devel mailing list too.

Other things... suggesting the UI is different enough that videos and galleries would help... I think that was taken on-board.
Again though, when they release API docs ASAP then they aren't finished. We understand that and I'm happy that releasing early docs that aren't polished is much better than releasing perfect docs later.

We also discussed mechanisms about how we could self-support Nokia tablets after Nokia begins to end-of-life them and how this benefits the community and Nokia.

Nokia are making this easy - I have plenty of devices that simply get abandoned and freeze... my tablet won't be one of them.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

From twitter

http://twitter.com/PeterMaemo/statuses/1988845545
http://twitter.com/luovanto/status/1989283476

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

Does the task switcher emulate the fennec model in the slightest way, e.g. you can pull the window over and get stuff (controls) from the side?

I am assuming this is how they are saving screen real estate.;)

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

jandmdickerson, what task switcher?

remember, we saw essentially the SDK that you can download and install now with the exception it was running on an omap3 touch based device itself.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

I guess it's hard for us "normal people" to realize how far from "standard practice" the Maemo guys inside Nokia went for this developer session. From what I understand they took quite a risk, I appreciate it and hope everyone involved maintains the discipline so they don't get in trouble for that...

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

First off, thanks all for the views of those devices. I'm an analyst by hobby and day-job, I look for everything in everything (unfortunately).

That being said, what Nokia is doing is a biggie; developing a platform/ecosystem just isn't done in this open of a manner. And honestly, I don't know if many other companies will be able to pull it off (in mobile; in web, there are a few folks that can and have done this).

The impressions in this thread have me second-guessing a likely N97 purchase. Not because I like the IT more, but because I *know* more before I've gotten my hands on it. To that end, Nokia/Maemo has granted this person some considerable good will that will be returned several ways.

I guess the next thing is to continue to sit back and watch. Hopefully, I'll be able to get in on a few more projects here and see things a bit more under the surface. Until then, sessions and threads like this feed the beast nicely.

Thank you.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

Someone already specifically said that the task switcher wasn't present.

What I keep thinking (with no evidence to back it up) is about the way Android does notifications. You have the standard info bar at the top of the screen, that pretty much every phone UI has. But with android, you can drag it down like a "pull down" sort screen. When you have notifications in the status bar, these become list entries in this now visible window, so you know the details behind the status icons.

You could also do something similar for a task switcher. Dragging down the status bar could give you a list of running applications that you could switch to, kill, etc.

But that's just what keeps going through my head when they talk about a new way to do task switching.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

That'd probably be the only way you couldn't tell easily how small the screen is compared to the n800. For example, my cousin's iPhone screen size looks similar to my tablet (especially when I'm not fullscreened and you can see how icons eat up space). But if he launches Youtube (an app that doesn't up the entire screen) or I go into full screen I can clearly see the difference in screen size. But for iPhone apps that use the entire screen there's no noticable difference (at least that one can easily see).

The problem with a 3.5 inch screen is that if the UI is still going be like Diablo (with the icons on the side and icons at the top) then a 3.5 screen will easily show the smaller real estate compared to the n800. But if the UI hides way like the iPhone then the smaller screen size won't be an issue.

Obviously since the device isn't finished yet you can't answer this question. But one problem with the n800 and n810 is the recessed screen (how the frame/case of the device is on top of the screen kinda). Which makes it hard to hit things like the X button in the upper right hand corner with fingers. I wonder if the next device will fix this. It also makes scrollsbars tough to use at times (even with a wider scrollbar theme).

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

It can be answered :) If you take a look at the Fremantle screenshots and vidcasts you will see that there is now a single status bar on top (a bit more prominent than the current one) and no sidebar.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

I guess where you also see the difference is web broswing.

The N800/810 provides a nice web browsing experince because at the given resolution and screen size you can still hold the device at comfortable reading distance. And contrary to other web enabled, mobile devices like the iPhone you don't need much zooming in/out or horizontal scrolling when surfing the web.

Can sombody who got his hands on the Development Device comment on the web browsing experience? Were websites still easily readable when using the default font size / 100% zoom?

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

Ah that won't be as bad then. Though I'd still prefer a hideaway option. Not sure if the iPhone has a status bar stuck on the top permenantly (haven't played with his iPhone in a while).

Though I meant the unanswered question for the following question. Whether the screen is still recessed behind faceplates and what not.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

we were looking at a different browser, and when I went to liqbase.net I could read everything fine without messing with anything and it loaded quickly etc.
(liqbase is such a simple site with no complex stuff and baseline html)

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

...and video playback.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

From my point of view this is (at least) being addressed in the SDK; the hildon stuff (gtk/Qt touch enhancements) is adding finger-scrolling to use the entire window as a scroll surface.
The xterm switched from finger-scroll to text-select; gtk has a pannablearea widget and I wrote an extension to Qt to make ordinary scrollareas gain fingerability.

Additionally there's a lot of real-estate gained by making the scrollbars indicators rather than functional bars.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

Readability of the default fonts in the web browser is one of those seemingly simple questions that isn't all that simple to answer. I will start by saying that is one of the places where fonts were a bit small for my taste, but I'm not sure it's that big of a deal. For one thing it looks like the font being used was different than the current one. I'm thinking it might just be a placeholder. It also seemed like fennec was attempting to do some fancy "fit page to screen" thing which seemed to be shrinking images/fonts at different points. Also, keep in mind that if the screen DPI is set correctly by the X Server a 12pt font will be exactly the same size on your desktop, laptop, N800 and N900. That being said, I'm hoping there are plenty of options for selecting font sizes. :)

-John

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

Here's a bit of a weird question:

If I understand correctly the N900 is bezel free (hoorah). Were there any indications that the resistive input ended at the edges of the screen, or indications that it extended beyond the edges?

The pre uses off screen touchability for task selection. If this is the case with this device interesting things with touch-input could be accomplished.


YARR!
}:^)~
Moun Cappita'

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

That's why I am not asking any penetrating questions either - just soaking up all the info - and I seem to like what I heard so far.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

Bezel! That's the word I'm looking for.

Edit: Seriously, if you looked at my other posts I've been calling it a hard case, overlay, almost everything besides bezel since I couldn't remember what it was called.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

Pretzel!!!

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

As we already heard in this thread, the screen size reduction isn't really that noticeable when you actually use the device.

I also got to play with the development device, and I have to say: cool! Much faster than N810, with better keyboard and touchscreen. And Midgard2 runs! :cool:

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

He didn't mount it in his car and use it for driving directions, either. :p

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

Having now read this a number of times, it seems as if the changes in the UI have decreased the amount of OS/application chrome - making the perceived reading space feel the same despite the smaller size. Such a thing is good, and if it has no bezel (whoohooo!) then that makes it even nicer for reading.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

3 rows on the keyboard is less than I was expecting. Based on my N810 (4 rows) I was hoping for more rows, not less, although I haven't tried this prototype device.

For the extra symbols reached by shifting, were shift keys present on both corners of the keyboard? On the N810, the Fn key is only on the left, making typing 1, 2, 3 harder than it should be (and yes, I know you can press Fn and release).

In fact, can anyone recall the layout in general?

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

How many of those who did the hands-on with the proto are on record as favorably-biased toward the 3.5" screen?

:p again

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

True... even the 4"+ screen on N8x0 sometimes feel a bit small for in car use.

But, as I see this the Navigation use is no longer "marketed" as key feature. I can understand this since dedicated GPS units now sell so cheap that if you need a GPS navigation you likely buy a dedicated GPS unit for this anyway... Just my 2 c about this subject. :)

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

We just can't get away from that Other Device Required paradigm, can we? ;)

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

The total device is considerably smaller than the N810, hence the keyboard is too.

When you shrink the total area of a keyboard, you generally have 2 options:

• Less keys
• Shrink keys

Unless you have pencil shaped fingers, option 2 just isn't very comfortable :)

It was a lot easier to use this keyboard then the one on my n810. Better shaped keys and less pressure needed.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

The third one is to make the overlap between upper and lower device halves smaller to increase the available keyboard area.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

... except, maybe, when you use the device as a portable media player, but then ...

... maybe we'll have to buy a dedicated portable media player in addition to the dedicated GPS unit for that, too.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

exactly.

haha! and a spare phone for when the big fat one has run down the battery in other uses...

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

On the screen size issue I'm quite indifferent. The reduction was unnoticeable enough that I heard it about here and didn't notice it while playing with the device itself.

However, if smaller screen would make the tablet more pocketable, I'd be all for it. Similar reasoning to why I think it would be great if it had a phone:

• maemo device that fits into my pocket
• maemo device that also functions as a phone

...means a maemo device would be the "universal communicator" that I always carry with me.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

I'm sticking with my opinion that the first ~4" screen without the N810's peripheral real estate will be a mind-blowing success.

I take that back: COULD be.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

I think there is one key difference: The GPS you most likely use only in the car... so why not just leave it there all the time? The media player though... that you take with you everywhere, so there you have a point.

What I see that there should be two "device classes":
1) Pocketable with ~3.5" screen
2) "Cargopocketable/Purseable" device with ~5-6" screen.

The first device is the "take everywhere" device (including phone) that fits in pocket. The latter should work good as GPS navigator, video player and ebook reader? Likely better for serious web surfing too...

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

I'm trying my best to consolidate gadgets. When I go to my car now, it's:

Nokia N810
Garmin GPS
iPhone 3G
Sony PSP or Nintendo DSi (sometimes)

There's an overlap in features, but I'm tired of carrying so much to my car and charging so much while in the house. I wanted to get rid of two of these... the Nokia N810/Garmin GPS (originally the N810's GPS was to be the only one... yeah right).

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

Heh - the 'confirm or deny' phrase springs to mind... the weekend just did not give us enough information to go beyond speculation. The prototype cases had a big plastic bezel on them that came up to the edge of the screen - short of sliding a screwdriver inside and levering it off (which I didn't do) I don't think there was any way of saying yes or no; and that pre-supposes that the plastic simply covered and didn't stand-in for a finished faceplate.

If you were really interested then there may be clues in the SDK? I really wonder how you'd expose an API for something like that? I can think of a few approaches but it's quite a challenge.

I suppose it could be totally reserved for the task manager and not available to apps... but that's a bit odd too.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

I read someone used xterm, was the device used to emulate 80x24 terminal? I ask this because many ncurses applications won't work with anything less than that.

Were any (Mozilla-related) milestones achieved during the hackfest?