Re: Perfect time to release Maemo 5.
 

With what they've learned trying to cultivate their own 'community' to develop maemo, I think Nokia would be foolish not to adopt Android and join the mobs (with their pitchforks and torches) in taking down the current king (apple).

Re: Perfect time to release Maemo 5.
 

I just want to chime in and recommend against the HTC Hero. It really is outdated, basically it is using 1st gen iphone hardware in a really pretty package with a slick(but slow) OS. The Creative Zii is really where it's at wrt the future of Android. Imagine cramming that awesome processor into a Hero with HTCs custom UI on top. It would be, bar none, the best smartphone. Until then, I think getting it is a mistake.

As for the Open Source argument, well first of all all these devices are running on open source linuxbsd. They all use Open GL, they all use an open source web browser(webkit). Compared to windows mobile, all the current smartphones are much more open.

Android is by far the most open and the iPhone is the least open, but they are all built on open source technology.

I downloaded the WebOS SDK to see what it is like in the emulator, and I love the interface. I would say it is better than android and much better than the iphone. Apple basically has no multitasking, the n800 has really crappy multitasking, and WebOS is perfection. It is really just so nice to have all those "cards" open and just flick through them.

The only things apple has going for it is the app store and better hardware. The Pre has some hardware issues, and the lcd is smaller than the one on the iphone. If the hardware keyboard was as good as a crackberry, the small lcd would be fine. Unfortunately, it just isn't.

I found that I typed best on android though, the predictive text is really great. I picked it up for the first time and just started hitting it and all i got was gibberish, but the predictive text guessed the right word even though I missed every single letter, and even before I finished typing it!

It is really unfortunate that the n800 has basically become a brick now. The LCD is just gorgeous, and every single smartphone in the market is a downgrade. Of course, the silky smooth scrolling, zooming, scaling of web pages on the other devices is a huge step up from the clunky, jittery, jaggedy, frustrating experience on the n800.

I am going to get an iPod Touch in September when they do the refresh. I couldn't imagine myself saying this a year ago(who wants to browse on a 320x480 display?), but right now there aren't any real viable alternatives to the iPhone. I will wait until there is an Android or Palm device that is actually as good as the iphone, and hopefully from sprint or T-Mobile so I don't have to pay AT&T any more money.

Re: Perfect time to release Maemo 5.
 

And yet... and yet...

http://tabulacrypticum.wordpress.com...rting-us-wifi/

;)

Re: Perfect time to release Maemo 5.
 

Please explain that statement. IME all released tablets multitask very well.

Re: Perfect time to release Maemo 5.
 

Technically, multitasking works fine, but there is no easy way to switch between tasks. I wasn't referring to the capability, but the user interface implementation. Really, 75% of the problem is the lack of tabbed browsing(midori doesn't count).

With the Pre you can just do a gesture to move between cards, side to side, or gesture up to zoom out and see a bunch of cards next to each other and tap one to maximize it. It is just so much more intuitive and it just sort of flows. With the n800 I always get the feeling that the OS is getting in my way.

Like I said, the SDK is free and comes with a really nice emulator, try it out for yourself if you want to get an idea.

BTW, I took side by side pictures of my n800 display compared to a simulated iphone display on my desktop LCD to see the difference in resolution. Obviously it isn't apples to apples, and the technique isn't perfect, but I think the difference is big enough that it is still a useful comparison.

If anyone is interested, the pic is here http://omploader.org/vMjIyYw (3MB)

Re: Perfect time to release Maemo 5.
 

I think page 17 of Kate's presentation alludes to task switching problems that are "Fixed in Fremantle." In the end, I think Maemo has been a bad multi-tasking marriage with the n8x0's. The screen and input freezing I experience regularly would be unacceptable on all other devices/platforms that I use. Maybe we've all put up with it because we still can't believe that someone actually created these cool Linux-based devices. But the honeymoon's over.

YMMV

Re: Perfect time to release Maemo 5.
 

@drizek: (re: comparison) it's almost like comparing movies through still pictures though. The iPhone has such a fluid interface that you can use to manipulate the object almost effortlessly to zoom in\out and pan around to find the areas of interest (be it webpages or pdf files, office files, etc) while the n800 displays a very high resolution but quite cumbersome to manipulate.

Of course, I personally cannot wait til we can get the best of both world.

Re: Perfect time to release Maemo 5.
 

Uhm... you have the taskbar and a hardware button dedicated to task switching. I find it very easy to switch around multiple programs running at the same time personally.

That has nothing to do with multitasking though.

Re: Perfect time to release Maemo 5.
 

That refers to the various applets being dlls and taking down the whole hildon desktop when they crash. As we can see in beta2 statusbar applets are still dlls in Fremantle, but they are loaded into a different process so they can only crash the statusbar. Nothing to do with task switching either.

As long as you stay within the device's limits it multitasks fine, and it's nice to be able to stretch the limits when you want to (but the old adage about Unix giving you enough rope to hang yourself is still true).

Re: Perfect time to release Maemo 5.
 

Whatever other problems Maemo may have, I have no problem switching between tasks in Maemo. It is really really easy, easier than in Symbian/S60.

What does this have to do with task switching? A tabbed browser is a single task. Also, I am not sure if you know it, but by pressing the hardware button with two little intersecting rectangles you can get a list of all open browser windows. It is just like tabs.

In other words, you just want a Palm Pre. I do not see what the problem is then: buy yourself a Pre and be happy with all the sliding action.

I can tell you without any pictures that 480x320 at 163ppi will look shittier than 800x480 at 225ppi.

Re: Perfect time to release Maemo 5.
 

That's the only reason I haven't bought one yet. But my gadget lust is just getting really anxious for anything at the moment. Come on Nokia!

Re: Perfect time to release Maemo 5.
 

i really want to want a maemo 5 device, but if this Android powered Zii arrives first i will be sorely tempted.

Re: Perfect time to release Maemo 5.
 

STILL on hold. And have been for ~12 months now, with no (official) announcement of a device yet. Lots of announcements about the OS, but what good is that without a device?

Re: Perfect time to release Maemo 5.
 

Yes, what I probably meant to say was that Nokia seems to have admitted that they might have made some poor decisions about how they implemented some major frontend components, and I agree with them based on my own multi-tasking experience.

I think it's the OS's limitations that I'm referring to, not the devices. So I disagree. But I do agree that Nokia is probably feeling the noose getting a little tight.

Re: Perfect time to release Maemo 5.
 

When you have an internet tablet, having multiple websites open is a large part of the multitasking experience. I know it is technically one task, one thread, etc, but thats not the point.

For me the big problem is switching between fullscreen apps. Yes, there is the hardware button, but it can be annoying depending on how you are holding it and often if you have multiple browser windows open you can't tell which is which. For example, if I open up 5 topics on certain forums, they will all have the same name and the same icon, and you have to cycle through them to find the one you want.

I guess it isn't bad, but nokia didn't really go out of its way to optimize task switching for mobile devices. They basically just put a windows list and a window switcher on the panel and called it a day, really no different from what something like XFCE uses.

Re: Perfect time to release Maemo 5.
 

Maemo MicroB allows that.

This isn't much different from the desktop version of FireFox or IE which will show the same name in all 5 tabs, as long as the forum web site does not change the page title accordingly.

Yes, they did. And it works pretty well. Is it somehow wrong?

Re: Perfect time to release Maemo 5.
 

I never said it didn't work. I just said Palm did it better.

Yes, but on the desktop you have much longer tabs than the app switcher, usually big enough to fit the whole name.

Nokia did not go out of its way to optimize the experience for mobile devices. They took a desktop concept and figured that since they had a desktop resolution that they could get away with it.

App switchers and task bars are desktop concepts from the 90s, and no, it doesn't work well. I use a program called Switcher on my desktop to get Expose-like functionality, which is really nice. Moreover, MS really improved the taskbar in windows 7, giving you graphical previews of all your open windows. Alt+Tab and Win+Tab also give you screenshots, and Compiz in Linux does all of the above. Opera also implemented graphical tabs in 10, so you have a tab bar with screenshots of all your windows. You can also mouseover to get tab previews in Opera 9.

It seems most people prefer the idea of looking at their windows instead of getting a truncated version of the window title.

Re: Perfect time to release Maemo 5.
 

Like the ones in Chrome? :D

I'm not looking at small windows, I'm getting work done. Probably many people too. Why would you need tab previews or even application previews? The only reason I can think of is to watch a progress bar without switching to it. Yes, it is flashy, but it gets in the way most of the time. Expose? Brrr... That's the single most pointless effect ever.

Re: Perfect time to release Maemo 5.
 

Expose is actually pretty useful, I use the Compiz equivilent, Scale which is much more elegant and smoother. It helps when you want to switch between windows on different virtual desktops quickly (when I'm not using Gnome-Do).

But on a mobile device..yeah I don't see Expose/Scale being that useful.

Re: Perfect time to release Maemo 5.
 

I'm saying we need window previews as a more suitable task switcher for mobile devices. Not expose, but something where you can see multiple apps open and select the one you want with the touch screen.

Re: Perfect time to release Maemo 5.
 

http://zenvoid.org/tmp/fvwm/fvwm-ico...s_20090727.png

It isn't as cracked up as it seems to be

EDIT: this is darned slow, btw. :P