Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

python... that's what I'm trying to make understand to all :D

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

I" want an easy development environment."

"I want to make an amazing app and made money from that."

A lot of developers won't make the jump if they don't get this. Never understimate the lazyness of the average Joe.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

Google wants their services everywhere :)

If Maemo becomes a more spread platform with a lot of people using these devices, Google will be more than happy to write these applications.

I really would like to have a native GMail client, GMaps (with latitude support), ecc.... I think you already know how/if starting a commercial collaboration with them.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

I agree with you.

But nobody seems interested by ideas in Reply #29 of this thread ?
#29

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

@ysss: I think is okay if it is removable if you have the knowledge. But if the platform is popular and there is a lot of end users that don't have that knowledge, ability and concern, then there would still be a lot of exposure for the add.
for instance: there are a lot of free templates for websites, but they have the companies emblem on them at the bottom for their exposer. You can remove it if you have the knowledge to change the script, but since it is small and a lot of people don't have the knowledge to change it(total guess, maybe 80 percent), they just let it stay and the company gets what they want. I take the time to remove it and I get what I want. Both are happy.
I'm just saying there are a lot of free things out there where the advertising that actually pays for it.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

That is the point, there is no war.

There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving and that is your own self. --- Aldous Huxley

Be the change you want to see in the world. --- Ghandi

The only way something gets mainstream is people falling in love for it. We can't push OpenOffice down everybody's throats. IBM got big because they seduced their millions of customers somehow.

The auspicious path is we keep developing our platform here. If it's good, some day people will acknowledge that, and start to use the thing.

Unless... I would like to know from Nokia: do we have to be afraid about Maemo and the NITs fail if they don't gather more users soon? Or have we actually found a nice and honest niche product that can continue to exist even tough it doesn't have millions of users?... Are we in that situation of having to grow not to die? (In portuguese we sometimes say a company has to "crescer para não morrer".)

Today there is no war. There is just people opting out for one or another product, and we are lucky enough that the companies are managing to offer different products to different people. Is that scenario at risk? In this case, then I can agree we could try to do something to make the NITs more pop. Unless it's "selling out" too much. In this case I would try to move on to something like Pandora, I don't know....

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

@nwerneck: and Nokia is a robin hood type selfless charity that tries to raise opensource fund by selling low-mid level mobile phones to fund your altruistic movement? wake up :D

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

Ysss, ce n'est pas avec cet état d'esprit quôn vas avancer.

Always have large company like big evil is not the best of things.


Nokia, with the choice of free, shows that it leaves the choice to the people to participate in the products and not just consume.

And this proves one thing: At Nokia, among the employee, there are good people.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

I never said that. I am saying that it might be the case that the NITs as they are now can perhaps be profitable enough to justify the product existence and keep my egocentric derrière happy. I am not a robin hood altruist myself, I'm a hedonistic bastard. I don't really care if Nokia is making money, I want to know if they will build more devices like the N800 in the future, and cheaper, so I can buy them while my friends keep buying that expansive and feeble iMtireds.

Unless you tell me the NITs can go extinct unless more people start buying it, I won't care about attracting Joe the Plumber and Aunt Tillie to use it.

Will the price drop if more people start using it? Will it drop if iPhone users move to it? or will it get as much expansive as an iPhone?

Now, maybe the Nokia people need a new yatch or something. And they decide they will try to use Maemo to get more users... Why not letting them decide alone what would be the strategic move? Can we users and third party developers really help them? Should we really care? Are we sure, for example, that prices might drop if we help them really hard?

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

@korbe: Ok, let me just rephrase it differently.
Nokia is not in the 'opensource business' solely for opensource's sake.
Surely they see this as an investment, an incubation project to grow an opensource OS that can be used on their products because they're not in the OS business. AND if you understand this part, then you'd see that going mainstream (and succeeding) is in the symbiotic interest of both the community and nokia. Unless, this niche can grow big enough, to be profitable enough to sustain the niche's dream.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

well nokia is one of the most wonderful companies out there. Their motto has always been to empower the user unlike apple.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

But who said it is not profitable enough already to sustain itself?

And why does a "niche" has always to be considered some naïve dream? Why is it considered an inherent waste of time for big companies? Hey, with the mass mainstream market saturated with iPhones, it might perhaps be easier and more profitable for Nokia to take some niche than just focus on that larger and more difficult fight. You must choose your battles to survive the war!...

I won't doubt it if you tell me the NITs are not much profitable yet. And I bet they aren't profitable enough to award yachts and mansions to all Nokia executives and shareholders. But do we know for a fact if they are "wasting" money in Maemo right now, and they would have to make drastic changes in the project because of this?

Maybe this feeling that we currently have to do something or else Memo and the NIT will fail is totally artificial. Maybe we are conditioned to think that closed source is right and open source is inherently some impossible naïve dream because it is so beautiful. But I question this idea.

This is questionable by itself, but in the NITs case is even worse. It is difficult to see how a software company can make money with free software, but Nokia is not only a software company, hardware is quite important to them. Maybe Maemo is profitable enough right not as it is because the company is making enough money with the hardware (they say it sold more than they imagined). If this is the case, we should not be worried about making some extra effort to grow its user base "or else".

Maybe it's not the case, maybe Maemo will in fact fail unless we are successful in making it mainstream. But how do we know that? It makes no sense to just be admired with the number of iPhone users and developers and be afraid to be smashed by it somehow.

Why can't we just be happy with the way we are, this small little happy sustainable and profitable niche? Why do we have to be concerned about reaching the stars and rivaling the iPhone? Why become something else entirely?? Are we thinking about what we want for us in our lives, or are we seeking fame an glory and hordes of mindless fanboys to be part of our gang? If it's profitable enough already (perhaps the release of a fourth table is a proof of that), why do we care if our neighbors and Aunt Tille uses it or not? What do we care what other people think?

As for Nokia, I imagine they would in fact like to take a bite out of the Apple pie. But we can't know what they plan. They probably wish Maemo becomes good enough to beat Android and w1dowze in the consumer's minds. But it's up to Nokia to take steps in this direction, and not us. Or do we believe the tablets are so bad right now that all it users are in the verge of migrating to other devices?

It's Nokia's call to make a decision like: "Maemo is not making enough money as it is, let's just make some iPhone clone instead." We, the Maemo community, shouldn't care much about this, we shouldn't raise the subject from nothing. Unless Nokia comes top-down with some news like this, it makes no sense for us to be arguing about what we should do to suddenly "take the mainstream" (like Linux will one day "take the desktop")

Now, don't think I am saying it's all perfect right now. I do agree there are some deficiencies in the Maemo community right now that should be fixed. Somebody suggested in this or another thread that we might pick up some ideas in how Debian and other distros work in managing their packages. That is a very good idea. The Maemo garage right now is just some kind of Freshmeat, and not at all like Debian where there is a project leader et cetera. This sure is lacking in Maemo. It doesn't feel like a distro right now, but more like "a mere bag of packages"...

This may be because we see Nokia as leading Maemo, but nobody would like to "work for free" for Nokia, following project manager's decisions like in Debian and others. Perhaps we will see this kind of stronger organization build up around Mer? Who knows...

And I am not against Nokia hiring someone to make a number of applications for NIT users to buy. I don't mind if Microzoft releases "Maemo Office". I only hope we can always opt out such things, and that counter-piracy concerns doesn't end up making life a hell.

Sorry again for long post. It's Friday night and just had a few drinks!. I thought a lot about the subject because I was reading the thread at the bar, with my tablet you know... :D

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

It took me some time to realize an ocarina program is something inherently multi-touch, so it won't happen anytime soon. :rolleyes:

But I might still try some other kind of synth, not much different from the Theremin app currently available.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

So many ideas... some good, some great, some bad.

But I just keep thinking... it's all "me too". Nokia, Maemo, et al... all of this discussion should have happened last year so something would be in place this year, if not right now.

I want to see something come from these discussions, and I feel that it will. Some serious great ideas, discussions and insight into what's wrong with other offerings.

I can't wait. And that's my main problem... waiting.

Now... for me, to entice me to develop on Maemo, I already develop on OS X and Windows. Rarely do I develop in Linux now.

But as it stands, I'd develop if it were as accessible as XCode was. And despite my epic amount of hate for it, .NET Visual Studio is very accessible and downright intuitive. I can't replicate everything in Mono yet. And since my switch to mostly Adobe Flex... well, I know that means no Linux either. But if you had some IDE - yes, IDE - that also had commandline, you'd bridge the gap.

Sure... I could write Python by hand all day if I wanted to. But I don't. I could fire up the GCC and compile up via commandline if I chose. But sometimes, I wouldn't. There's no Unity 3D out for the platform - a 3D engine that's easily deployable - and that's a problem (I like to make 3D games as well).

So what do I have to look forward to on this platform?

So far, I'm not seeing it. And I want to. Badly.

Regardless... good luck. Can't wait to see what comes from it.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

I'm having a hard enough time getting the SDK we DO have up and running at all, sadly enough.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

If interested, please go to

Applications You Wish Were Ported From Other Platforms

on the wiki :-) and edit to your heart's content.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

I bet 10p that within a couple of weeks it's full of superfluous and ill-thought out suggestions like "wine" or "someone should make a PS3 emulator".

Back in 2005 there was exactly this kind of wiki page (which went along with the application catalogue wiki page). It got noisy and useless pretty quickly :-(

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

i fear they may be right, altho they are using it to shore up their own ego more then apply a logical argument.

i fear that multitasking confuses people, especially when there is a gui involved so that one may never have a indication that anything is being done.

this is, i suspect, why viruses and so on work. people do not have the "sysadmin" attitude of looking at the task manager/top/whatever, and read up on the names of the entries listed.

i cant help wonder how many only have a spreadsheet or text document open on their desktop all day, and use the computer as a typewriter with unlimited correction fluid...

for them, a task going on in the background, could just as well be going on at the other side of the world, they would not know, or care, about the difference.

i ones read that elderly people, ones being shown the basics, found the command line of a unix environment informative. This mostly as they could tell when something was going in (no blinking cursor) and when a task was sent the the background, they would told it was waiting there when they did something else.

thing is, while our brain is a multiprocessing machine, it constantly scans sensory inputs for potential dangers, we are not aware of that. We are mostly focused on the one thing we are working on at the moment, and studies have shown that multitasking will actually degrade our performance more often then not, as it takes time for the brain to bring itself back up to speed about what was done on a task previously.

So when a teen is studying with music and tv on 11, its more about applying white noise to the senses, rather then distractions.

when one speak about a wish for multitasking on the iphone, what it seems one is often really asking for, is for the apps one leave, to remember their state, so that one can leave a ssh shell open, pop over to a pdf or web page, read up on some commands on wants to give, and then pop back into the ssh session to enter said commands. The iphone fails here, as it closes down the ssh session when one leave, and needs to be reconnected before one can continue (potentially dumping all one have done unless one is running screen at the other end).

so multitasking is more a case of telling the computer "hold that thought", then of really trying to do multiple things at the same time. At best, the other "tasks" are supplementing ones ability to do a "primary" task.

the thing is that while we are attempting to replace the secretary, librarian and other jobs with a computer, the people performing those jobs are potentially creative, and attempts at making the computer creative have so far been poor and annoying (clippy anyone?).

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

There's a lot of truth to that. Multitasking for multitasking's sake on such a limited platform (CPU, RAM and most importantly Battery) can be a loose cannon. And going by iPhone's example, they have actually enabled 'multitasking' (or rather background execution) for some of the most common tasks:

- Email checking
- Music\podcast playback
- Application update

There are also a class of apps that are apparently been better run as external services that delivers 'push notification' only when there's something new:

- RSS reader, social web clients and the likes
- IM apps are almost usable in this setup, because they are idle and consuming some resources for most of the time

And the true apps that require multitasking, mostly with streaming:

- terminals
- downloader (p2p, media streamer, file downloader)
- live constant chat (irc, conference mode IM)

So if you want to boast about multitasking, to make it the showcase feature of the platform, make sure you use the right class of apps to present.. otherwise they'd just be idle drain of resources on your limited device.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

True. But Nokia *IS* in OpenSource business and with each iteration it is more in. With each generation there is more code opened and more transparency with development (although you could probably not notice it due to all whining here ;) ).

Nokia apparently decided that OpenSource isn't bad for business and goes with it.

Maybe they noticed that in global scale there is enough people interested in OpenSource products that they can maintain whole line of products?

BTW - according to recent article on BBC site about Red Hat OpenSource is now about of 20% of global IT market.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

Yes, they've realized that OS development isn't their core business and that there is a chance that an open sourced OS can be incubated to be used in future products. This way they can concentrate on hardware (and services?) developments and manufacturing, and hopefully the community movement can be fostered and grown to support the OS under their guidance and guardianship.

Yes, I believe the bulk of those 20% are in infrastructure (servers) and kiosks-type environment.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

Take a look at this post:

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...6&postcount=52

"Oh, and as for development platform: Nokia should take a tip from Palm. They are fresh on the stage with WebOS, and their platform made me smile. They have a Debian package tested for Ubuntu specifically (it being really popular and all). After installing, a single terminal command (as a regular user) pulls open VirtualBox with a fully functioning WebOS emulator.

Then I looked at Maemo again:
http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_4-1-2_diablo/
That site demonstrates what Nokia is doing here: They are running on some delusion that everyone who wants to do software development is willing to spend a day reading through convoluted documentation to set up an SDK so that they can maybe compile a little command line app for their tablet. They assume that developers don't like easy stuff, that everyone writes in Assembly and anything higher level was developed by evil commies to destroy our minds. Oh, and that developers don't read, so documentation is useless.

Then I looked back at Palm:
http://developer.palm.com/

Okay, which one would YOU build software with? "

Edit: This too http://developer.palm.com/index.php?...rticle&id=1772

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

Simple: We need an SDK that is downloadable in one file in one .dmg and installs politely in Mac OS X (=as a single movable and removable app). It should have options for multiple projects, buttons for compiling the project(s) and running them in a virtual emulator.

At the moment developing for Maemo for anyone running OS X includes so much work before you get to the actual developing that at least I give up.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

Given the responses in this thread, it's very safe to say that Maemo doesn't want, nor know how to entice iPhone developers.

Different mindsets, different goals, different ideas. In the end, we'll see which one is around longer.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

you entice people by ignoring them
really, **** the world and just write the app you want to write.

liqtorch just went through extras devel, whichever apps I want to push through individually will follow.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

"It's very safe to say"? Good that you are not in our product planning team. ;)

Comparing the Maemo SDK with the WebOS development just by the installation instructions is good to reach one conclusion (getting started with Maemo is today more difficult) but distorts the rest of the picture (the Maemo SDK is a much bigger and deeper beast allowing developers to touch almost every corner of the OS).

WebOS is a web runtime. Getting started with the Nokia Web Runtime tools is much easier than with the Maemo SDK. Even developing with Python is much simpler than natively with the Maemo SDK. Qt Creator is also a much better start.

The ideal scenario is to offer easy tools for developing simple stuff in the surface, easier tools to develop applications in the native environment and also powerful tools to allow platform developers to come with those rare wonders. It's very safe to say that we are working in these directions, and for us pushing on doesn't mean eliminating the other too.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

Yep, that's what I was thinking too. Even a simpler cross-compiler toolchain without any kind of cpu transparency would be useful for most native applications -- save for ports of already existing GNU packages, mostly have no need of overly long "configure"s requiring complete sbox-like environment (and thus can work in a cross-compile env that can't run compiled binaries). Then a simpler buildpackage tool (written in standard portable C) could do the job of creating the .deb file; it just needs to tar the appropriate files.
(See the iPhone GNU toolchain for examples)

Of course the debugging/emulation issue is still there, and sbox should be still there in case the need for anything more complex arises.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

its entirely feasible and comfortable to get a dev env on the tablet itself, i know ive been usign it for over a year now.

a maemo-dpkg-buildpackage for maemo is something I have tried multitple times to do, but gnuisms get in the way. I know its possible because I've built a package once with it - but after rebooting my device was screwed.

its something I would put a bounty upon.

it would take someone with a bit more linux knowledge to do it, but would be an excellent thing to have.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

For reference, check how the Cydia iPhone guys are doing it:
http://www.saurik.com/id/7

From the official dpkg-buildpackage toolchain they seem to be only using dpkg-deb -- the packer, which is readily available even on windows. He then tests on real device.

Also, they have standard cross compiler installed in /usr/local/bin/arm-apple-darwin8-gcc, etc. (from reading some of the Makefiles of cydia iphone software I gathered).

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

I apologize for my ignorance and for this being maybe offtopic but... will these widgets one can make with the Nokia Web Runtime, usable in the Maemo 5 environment? I mean, is it possible to make a desktop widget for rx-51 with these development instructions?
Thanks :)

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

According to the Maemo Summit schedule[1][2], I think so :)

[1] - http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2009/Schedule
[2] - http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2...ia_Web_Runtime

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

Quite right. I would have had this discussion publicly last year and products ready to go this year.

When will these tools come to fruition? Talk is incredibly cheap.

Time to deliver or you will entice nobody.

Let's face it. The request(s) for games, 3D engines, location aware apps, have taken a backseat to bash, emacs, tcp/ip stacks, and root access with Open Office being thrown around to counter the MS Office announcement(s).

No disrespect, but that does show a tremendously different mindset. And nothing is wrong with that at all. The Nokia Maemo set is a different set. If I want to play Touch KO - made with Unity 3D 2.5 - on my iPhone, I crank it up, play for a bit, enjoy the 3D textured, motion captured boxers in their multi-touch glory, close that app, check for any sales via the Priceless Picks - which has MasterCard and Amazon backing - for any sales nearby using my location, and head out of the house using the Trapster app that tells me if any cops have been seen near my house before I hot-foot it out in my car too fast.

With that said, I don't see any of that here on this site. We have apps that work... some damn well. I can't attack that. I won't.

But I see immediate responses to "I don't want iFart apps". I don't either. But the media centered on that stuff... because well nobody thought it was wanted and it sold. Somehow. Oh well... can't say that people all have good tastes.

And that goes both ways. Yet, to sit here, read an entire thread of IT professionals that are as far removed from the mainstream middle as the iFart puerile app purchasers too. Deliver the goods that were semi-delivered last generation. Video using the camera... that means get Skype, Gizmo, Fring, RTCom involved.

Office suite stuff... you got Microsoft involved on Symbian, and once the N900 is officially released, I'm sure there will be another announcement.

But to sit here and not notice that what's been talked about will never entice an Apple iPhone dev - lack of tools, lack of focus, lack of interest - as an registered iPhone dev, I'd not dev for this platform because it doesn't have the audience I'd seek for my products.

Perhaps if I made stuff that tweaked the dbus, bluetooth stack, or something like that... yeah. But location aware or entertainment apps... not mentioned here enough to cause interest.

I'm sure your typical stalwarts will gladly reward you with yet another thanks for anything else you state; but seriously. How many shells, emacs/vi/pico editors do I really need on a phone?

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

I do think Apple was smart to restrict multitasking to a few strategic applications, the way ysss explained. It makes things simpler, and prevents the users to see the system ever get sluggish from too many open programs. Myself, I prefer an unrestriccted system with a warning window like Maemo.

To get back in topic, maybe the greater liberty in Maemo should attract some developers and users looking for that. Of course, it would be just a minoroty of users, but here is a point we can explore to attract people, in opposition to remove this difference, make Maemo the same as iPhone and trying to attract them with... I don't know, lower prices?...


I think I know this text, I like it very much! :)

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

What you're not considering is that the iPhone and Maemo are at two different stages. The iPhone is at a mature state (for the most part), but it took time to get it there.

Maemo is still in a young, immature state... and that's something that's been known since the beginning. The difference here is that Apple did all their development internally and behind closed doors, whereas Nokia decided to try and experiment with Maemo and make it open WAY earlier, putting out hardware earlier.

Yes, there's a different market for the two right now. Maemo isn't meant for the consumer yet. Fremantle is basically the first attempt to making this platform more mainstream, along the same lines of the first release of the iPhone. Remember, the iPhone didn't have stuff like Unity (which I also use at work) until later on in its life. If the Fremantle device ends up being a much more mainstream piece of hardware (more mainstream than the tablets anyway), we're going to get a lot more interest from developers... we're going to get people thinking about putting out middleware like Unity for the platform (which is much easier now considering the Fremantle device and the iPhone 3GS run on the same CPU).

Essentially speaking, the 770, N800 and N810 are prototype devices getting us to version 1.0, the Fremantle device, if you want to compare them to Apple's releases.

You can't just snap your fingers and boom, you've got a mature device. So yes, people are trying to solidify the basics (bash, etc...) so that we can have a chance to build something better on top of it. You're right, we're not going to attract iPhone devs right now because it just doesn't make much sense to try to do so.

That's just my interpretation though. We'll see what happens when Fremantle is released.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

Normally I'd agree with you, but the 770 and Maemo were out before the iPhone.

Why did it mature faster than Maemo? Heck, why is Maemo maturing slower than Android - similarly closed?

Being open should benefit the platform. It's a draw I thought.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

gerbick, you are making very safe conclusions about the present and the future of Maemo, and of course you are free to do so. I just think you are being too simplistic and conclusive, that's all.

Between enticing happy iPhone developers and hacking emacs extensions there is some gap. Also you need to coordinate steps: a great SDK will attract a critical mass of developers only with great products and great sales.

We are working. I don't know if in the direction and at the speed you wish, but we are doing a lot of work. That's all I have to say now, actually. Because you are right, talk is cheap so we better wait and see the facts.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

I don't work at Nokia, but I believe that Maemo, as a whole, was started to become the next high-end OS for their phones and that the pieces of hardware and releases of Maemo were pretty much just meant to be public betas for what Maemo was to become. When that five-step plan for Maemo was shown by... I think Ari, I was sure of it.

The tablets probably were never expected to do anything except cultivate a developer community and improvements to Maemo before the real target hardware (Fremantle) is released.

As for why Apple's stuff matured faster than the iPhone... I don't know if it has or not. Only someone that's been on the inside at Apple can really say. A fanatical userbase is definitely part of it.

I think another reason why Maemo hasn't matured as fast is because the tablets, to this point, are specialized pieces of hardware. They're branded as internet tablets, not as phones. Developers are less interested in something like that. That's why I believe that once we'll have Maemo running on a more attractive piece of hardware, a phone, we'll start seeing a lot more interest (though I would be lying if I said the interest would be up to Apple's levels). People need phones... they can do without internet tablets. Android is on a phone, so pretty much automatically you've got a lot more people interested in something like that.

Again, I could be all wrong here... that's just my theory and viewpoint on it. Let's see what Fremantle brings.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

IDE integration (http://maemo.org/development/documen...e_integration/) is a much overseen area where a lot of interesting development is done - which hopefully will benefit people developing for Maemo and get most developers away from raw Scratchbox.. :)

That said, there is something interesting about the widget angle on apps versus full-blown apps: think a RSS reader widget just for the New York Times vs a full blown RSS reader. Sometimes a widget approach is nicer to have when you're navigating around in your personal mobile device and need a specific information right here right now.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

I think that you truly fail to see - unwilling? - that what is easily perceived to be where Nokia is concentrating upon at this moment, or have for the last 24 months; will not entice any developer away from iPhone dev.

The current SDK is problematic for many. I believe ZeroJay had stated problems getting it to run. He's, admittedly so by me, seemingly tons more competent than I in setting up something as such in the Linux environment.

There's not much to it other than that... have an SDK that makes sense to people, that's easily extended into areas that are sorely lacking at the moment, make it run across many platforms, or at least one platform well. That has yet to happen in the two years I've been around Maemo.

That doesn't mean that it won't happen. And I'm looking forward to the day it does happen.

There's nothing conclusive about what I say. For once, look at how you're likely to be perceived.

As a company, you have have three iterations of a platform that's changed multiple times and yet has yet to gain SDK friendliness of Apple's SDK. Heck, the XBOX SDK for their XDNA games/utilities is friendlier. The ability to dev by many levels and types of developers is paramount. It's not happening fast enough for a few people because they can change their mind, develop for WebOS, Android or iPhone right now easily. Or they can develop for the Zune or XBOX right now easily. All because the SDK is there, today, and it's friendlier than what Nokia has in place right now.

The perception of what you're offering is that it still is for tinkerers and Linux gurus that care for more emacs, et al than an app that knows where you are, can tie into another program very well, and just "work". Mashups, et al seem to have escaped this crowd.

If I'm being simplistic, it's because of the lack of understanding afforded to the community that supports your product. I read these groups daily. I'm a developer and if you've not convinced me, then you've not done your job. Your products haven't enticed me beyond being a hobbyist.

But with that said, I have 100% faith you will get there. And I'd love to be there when you do.

It's just not right now. Not yet.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

And that's ultimately my point. I don't think that it has matured faster than Maemo. Almost even footing in a few key areas.

The SDK and the app base are where the Apple offering has an advantage - I'm leaving out sales because I don't know Nokia's - but as it stands, I think that will be a difficult hill to climb in a bit.

The SDK and the app base - and ultimately the perception of what's there and what people truly want from this platform.

I, for one, don't want a few things that have been asked for in this thread. But I don't mind them being asked for. I do have a few wants... and yet I feel as if - sorry to personalize this - that I'm being scoffed at for having an opinion.

And that's my point. I have an opinion and ultimately I'm backing Nokia, I'm backing Maemo, I'm backing Mer.