maemo.org - Talk - Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)

- Nokia N900 (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=44)

- - Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes? (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31048)

attila77

2009-08-29 18:26

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by drizek (Post 317953)

Yes, it isn't pixel count, it is pixel density. Most phones have about the same sensor size though, so there isn't much difference in comparing count and density. Yes, it is true that a giant sensor with a ton of megapixels slooks better, but high pixel density does lead to a reduction in many aspects of picture quality. Most important is the addition of noise, but the other major issue is the reduction in dynamic range.

Here's an example (images shamelessly taken from dpreview):

http://a.img-dpreview.com/reviews/So...o1600_crop.jpg http://a.img-dpreview.com/reviews/Ni...o1600_crop.jpg

Basic characteristics:
- Same camera manufacturer (Nikon)
- Same sensor size (APS-C)
- Same ISO (1600)
- Same lenses
- Release dates differing by less than a year

And here's the kicker. The LEFT one is a 12 megapixel camera. The RIGHT one is a 6 megapixel camera. That's right. The 12 megapixel one delivers better resolution with clearly LESS noise. Yes, of course that advantage comes with a hefty price tag, but demonstrates quite clearly that you should draw no conclusions just based on paper specs and technological speculations.

Edit: Note that this, of course, does not mean that ALL 12 mpix chips are better than 6 mpix ones.

aironeous

2009-08-29 18:39

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

I have an idea, let's make a whole bunch of seperate threads about the N900!

drizek

2009-08-29 19:58

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

Yet if we go back to dpreview and read the review of the 15mp Canon G10 compared to the 10mp Panasonic LX3, this is what they have to say.

At ISO 400:

Quote:

Even at this low-ish sensitivity setting the Canon and Nikon have surrendered most, if not all, their resolution advantage. The LX3's output still closely resembles its base ISO quality with a touch more noise and some of the softness that noise reduction tends to bring beginning to creep in. However, the other two cameras are clearly having to resort to extreme measures with much more prominent noise appearing in the Nikon's image and fairly heavy noise reduction smearing the G10's output (and with sharpening artifacts showing an attempt to crisp the image back up). At a consistent output size, the results are likely to look identical but that begs the question - what do those extra megapixels achieve?

At ISO 1600

Quote:

It was never going to be pretty but there are some pretty unpleasant results here. The G10's noise reduction has obliterated most of the detail in its image and hammered the contrast too. For fans of watercolors, perhaps? The Nikon has made an even bigger mess of things, peppering its image with white speckling and producing unsightly yellow blotches across other parts of the image.

And, although the LX3's image isn't exactly a paragon of image quality, it's hard not to conclude that it's producing the best results at this point. There's all the noise and noise reduction degradation you'd expect of a compact camera working at this sensitivity setting, but it's balanced the two well and produced a good compromise result, retaining some detail and producing the most accurate color of the three.

See for yourself: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/CanonG10/page19.asp

attila77

2009-08-29 20:56

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by drizek (Post 318025)

Yet if we go back to dpreview and read the review of the 15mp Canon G10 compared to the 10mp Panasonic LX3, this is what they have to say.

Sigh. I never disputed that. I'm just saying you're jumping to conclusions with regard to the megapixel-image quality relation. Saying phones should not have more than one or two megapixels in 2009 is an anachronism (I have a 2mpix Nokia dumbphone and it produces absolutely useless photos when compared to a Nseries). If you want to complain, complain about the LED flash (say, I'd rather have 3mpix+xenon than 5mpix+led).

drizek

2009-08-29 21:42

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

Your 2mp Nokia is ****, that doesn't mean all 2mp cameras are ****. The image I posted in the previous page was 1.3mp, taken with what I assume is just a plain point and shoot by the same person as the N900 photos and it looks far better and far sharper than the 5mp pictures from the N900. megapixels and image quality absolutely are related. Smaller pixels are less accurate, this leads to noise and a loss of dynamic range.

I do not consider 3mp a downgrade. In fact, I would rather have 3mp and LED than 5mp and xenon.

I am not saying I want the iPhone camera in the Nokia, I am saying that Nokia should have used hte same size sensor, the same lens, but lowered the megapixel count to improve high iso photography.

zerojay

2009-08-29 21:59

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by drizek (Post 318055)

...and it looks far better and far sharper than the 5mp pictures from the N900.

And we just were told that a lot of the photos were not taken with the N900 and that they were prototypes. Still too early to decide on what looks better... so... can we just close this thread until the actual final N900s make it out?

christexaport

2009-08-31 02:44

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by drizek (Post 318055)

I am not saying I want the iPhone camera in the Nokia, I am saying that Nokia should have used hte same size sensor, the same lens, but lowered the megapixel count to improve high iso photography.

Are you saying Nokia should go back to the cameras they used 4 years ago? Nokia is a leader in mobile photography, and the reason they've used 5 megapixels is they've spent years developing processing and figured how to raise pixel count and image quality at the same time. I am of the school to say their new 8 megapixel cameraphone is the best cameraphone on the market, with unmatched low light images.

christexaport

2009-08-31 03:11

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

Where's Dr. Tran when you need him? He's a world reknowned imaging expert. Ask him about the quality of Nokia Nseries flagship cameras. Check his flckr account for high quality photos from a N95

jandmdickerson

2009-08-31 03:42

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by christexaport (Post 318569)

Where's Dr. Tran when you need him? He's a world reknowned imaging expert. Ask him about the quality of Nokia Nseries flagship cameras. Check his flckr account for high quality photos from a N95

I hated the pic quality of my n95. My wifes Iphone took far better pictures, even with different photographers. Anyway, I guess pic quality is very subjective. However, I think we can almost all agree the pic quality on the n800 and n810 is sub-par.

christexaport

2009-08-31 04:27

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

jandmdickerson,
maybe you don't know how to use the N95's camera well. You are the first person to say the N95 took worse photos than the iPhone.

I suggest you look at Dr. Tran's Flickr page to see the great things he does with Nokia cams. And then ask yourself what the heck you've done wrong...

christexaport

2009-08-31 04:27

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

were you half pressing the shutter button to allow a focus, waiting for the green target, and shooting the shot?

ysss	2009-08-31 04:42

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

My N95 takes ok pictures (highres for sure), but the whole process of calling up the app, waiting it to be ready, waiting it to focus, taking the picture is much longer than any other smarthphones i have with cameras.

chilko

2009-08-31 04:53

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

check this

if 007 001 in tag means that the picture is taken with n900 then:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...h+a+007+001%22

christexaport

2009-08-31 05:11

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

They're using prototypes, if those are N900 photos, and prototypes usually have bad photo quality. expect similar performance to the N95/N97 since its the same camera hardware.

yerga

2009-08-31 16:02

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

Check out this one, also done with the 007 001:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mdamt/3806740161/

christexaport

2009-09-01 20:06

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

Color and focus could be better, but it looks close to ready to ship firmware in that one. Which means the shipping one should be phenomenal. NIT users unaccustomed to good cameras are in for a treat.

nilchak

2009-09-01 21:27

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jandmdickerson (Post 318579)

I dont know how you say that, but I specifically bought a N95 to take good photos and haven't been dissapointed.

That said, of course any cameraphone will be behind in photo quality in low light situations. But in bright day light there nothing to beat an N95 as a cameraphone (at least not an iPhone).
en example in bright daylight ...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/76248248@N00/3673550835/
and one is lesser daylight light
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7624824...n/photostream/

Peet	2009-09-01 21:52

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

FWIW, the 3.2MP Zeiss lens in my Nokia phone takes acceptable snaps in broad daylight, but the problem that it has - and which I hope Nokia has addressed - is the lack of "pan focus" (fixed close to medium distance focus; also faster than autofocus) mode.

In low light the camera isn't able to focus, even with assistance, farther than ~1m which is pretty useless in social occasions and generally.

Obviously this is historically total black magic firmware territory, so it'll be interesting to see if Nokia has added the fixed quickie "pan focus mode" or whether such intimate hardware features are also open for post-sales tinkering. (doubtful, but hey...)

qgil	2009-09-03 19:37

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

I'm an old fan of tigert's pictures. He is having fun lately!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tigert/3878934526/

...also with videos. In this one you can see he is a guy that takes risks for a good shot: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tigert/3880838082/

I try to learn from him and other great hobbyist photographers in the Maemo team. All of them quite happy and inspired these days for _some_ reason... :)

ragnar

2009-09-04 08:58

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

http://www.flickr.com/groups/1184299@N24/pool/

Hey all, we created a Flickr group for these photos.

I'm also a hobbyist photographer. I'm pretty happy with my pre-production (please remember that when considering the images) quality I'm getting with the N900 device. It's far better than any other mobile phone/device camera I have personally used. (Although yes, there probably certainly are better quality smartphones with 8mpix cameras out there already.)

I put my images at least without post-processing, you could easily refine them up a bit more if you would like. Yes, N900 is only 5 megapixels, but as has been stated to death, that isn't really the defining factor. Yes, you can also take really bad looking photos if you don't know what you're doing.

Anyway, for instance to be able to get rather nice looking depth of field shots with my mobile computer camera is seriously a cool thing.

deadmalc

2009-09-04 09:32

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

Wow! given this is just a point and click camera, these images are quite nice.
I think getting a flikr account will be the first thing I do when my n900 arrives, but the waiting!

ossipena

2009-09-04 09:35

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ragnar (Post 321339)

forget the megapixels!

heres something taken with 4mpix (Canon eos 1D)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/day1953/2946102733/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/michelroy/3141040901/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28557373@N06/3155991736/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alothman/2296740596/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kausthub/3329746016/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/olicroteau/3091372477/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28557373@N06/3087514375/

so now I'm waiting double quality photos with 8mpix mobile phone cameras.... or admitting the fact that the megapixels are only one variable that comes normally after optical quality and noise level when prioritized correctly.

Capt'n Corrupt

2009-09-04 15:25

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

Amazing pics!

And a fine example that there's far more to an images quality than mega-pixels.

};^)~

christexaport

2009-09-04 21:10

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadmalc (Post 321340)

Wow! given this is just a point and click camera, these images are quite nice.
I think getting a flikr account will be the first thing I do when my n900 arrives, but the waiting!

Screw Flickr, deadmalc, and get an Ovi account. They have Ovi Share, just like Flickr, but better, and integrated in the phone with Ovi Share in the menus. Or use Pixelpipe and hit all your social networks and photography storage sites in one upload.

day1953

2009-09-05 15:21

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ossipena (Post 321342)

Just for the record, the first link above:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/day1953/2946102733/

was shot by me with a Canon EOS ID Mark III which is a 10.1 Megapixel camera, not 4 megapixels. The original 1D was a 4.4 megapixel camera.

attila77

2009-09-05 15:59

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ossipena (Post 321342)

or admitting the fact that the megapixels are only one variable that comes normally after optical quality and noise level when prioritized correctly.

There is no *after*. A camera is a system in which the sensor and the optics are both fundamental elements, and these elements should be well matched/balanced.

And one tiny note about noise. Noise is a sensor parameter, and it's loosely tied to pixel size. Generally you want as little of it as possible, but remember - you can trade some resolution for less noise, but you cannot trade lack of noise for more resolution.

Kozzi

2009-09-14 14:10

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2587/...1119917782.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2517/...ccc26ce8bc.jpg
With video: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mdamt/3...l-1184299@N24/

Source: Matkapuhelininfo

Thesandlord

2009-09-14 14:16

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

That is the definition of EPIC WIN.

nilchak

2009-09-14 14:26

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by christexaport (Post 321752)

I tried PixelPipe the other day on my N95 and boy, was it slow over the 3.5g connection that I had.
I had used Shozu before (Shozu allows uploads to multiple sites) and it was much faster. Sadly Shozu is now a paid application on OVI Store.

But seriously whats wrong with Flickr ? OVI Share while it may be good, has not much of followers and Flickr is where most of say my friends are also on - hence its good for sharing with people I know.

McChicken

2009-09-14 16:14

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by christexaport (Post 318596)

I have to agree, the N95, is still a decent camera, and the VIDEO recording is still good, it was amazing once.
my father in law takes my N95 videos and turn them into DVD films, nobody have complained on the actual video quality when showing on a big screen more the skills of the photographer ( me).

I am finally retiring my fist Gen N95, and hope that the N900 will be as good as the N95, especially video recording. No phone have until now been a worthy replacement for the ground breaking N95 "Do it All Phone" IMO.

texaslabrat

2009-09-14 16:33

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by McChicken (Post 326805)

Absolutely agree with all of that...and I'm in the same boat (except for the father-in-law part..I have to do the DVD stuff myself) by having a N95 that will soon be passing the torch to the N900 when it arrives.

christexaport

2009-09-14 22:17

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

Kozzi, you gave my Nikon loving mother a boner with those photos! LOL! She'd love a Nokia phone that'd accept her Nikkor and Hasselblad lenses.

Nilchak, Pixelpipe is new, but they're getting faster by the minute. I think its a server thing, not sure, but Pixelpipe will become a standard soon, mark my words. Free and agile is the way of progress.

And Flickr is fine, but Ovi will be alot more popular pretty soon. It doesn't require others to be your social buddies to share with it, either, so I don't get the friends on Flickr thing. You can share links to your data, and from the looks of things, Nokia is planning to buy a social network or build one of its own. (I hope its MySpace they want, tbh) Photo sharing will be big for Ovi as soon as Americans can get access to more Nokia devices, which is happening now. Look what the iPhone did for Flickr, and imagine what a US market full of Nokia cams will do for Ovi Share.

qole	2009-09-14 23:35

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by christexaport (Post 326961)

...you gave my ... mother a boner

Seriously, what?!

Quote:

Originally Posted by christexaport (Post 326961)

She'd love a Nokia phone that'd accept her Nikkor and Hasselblad lenses.

Yes, the N900 will take Nikkor and Hasselblad lenses. You only need a good set of rubber bands to secure the lenses properly.

While the N900's camera may have a proud heritage with other N-series devices, the N900 has to be the first cameraphone that can take a picture (or video) from the command line...

timsamoff

2009-09-15 15:21

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by christexaport (Post 326961)

Flickr...require others to be your social buddies to share with it, either, so I don't get the friends on Flickr thing.

Flickr doesn't require anyone to be your friend to see your photos unless you specify that option for your photo(s)/video(s) (or specify that you only want friends and/or relatives to see the hi-res versions, or order prints, or whatever). Adding friends on Flickr is (usually) only meant to allow you to keep track of friends' (and others') media, not disallow others from seeing or linking to yours.

Tim

qole	2009-09-15 17:14

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

I love Flickr. My only complaint is that their free service only allows 200 photos on your photostream.

QueenShawtii

2009-09-15 17:31

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

Does Ovi have a photostream feature like Flickr?

timsamoff

2009-09-15 18:55

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by qole (Post 327295)

I love Flickr. My only complaint is that their free service only allows 200 photos on your photostream.

But a year of Pro service is only $25, Qole! :p

Tim

qole	2009-09-15 22:32

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

I just keep waiting. And hoping.

christexaport

2009-09-16 00:34

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by QueenShawtii (Post 327311)

Does Ovi have a photostream feature like Flickr?

Honestly, I killed Flickr long ago. I'm not sure what the photostream is, but all content is freely shown on Ovi. It lacks the editing of Flickr, though, I'll admit.

I guess I don't like the social features of Flickr because I'm already doing the same thing with MySpace and Facebook, but I see the value in it for many. Maybe I'm more of a Nokia whore than I'd noticed, because it is simple in comparison to Flickr, but that's what I like about it. I let my other social sites do the friending.

christexaport

2009-09-16 00:35

Re: Any examples of the pictures or video the N900 takes?

If you already have an Nokia/Ovi account, you have a Share account already. Its integrated in the Nokia device, and easy to use.

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