Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

Why can they all run OS 3.1.2?

You missed the point. It's not about what's been added to the firmware/hardware. It's the fact the OS - as in Maemo 5 & Maemo 6 - may not be upgradeable on the N900.

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

They don't have the hardware for those features.

However they get all features that can be supported by their hardware and there is a consistent platform for developers to target.

My N82 always shows the homescreen in portrait mode even when everything else is in landscape. The N85 and other phones support landscape homescreen but not mine. There's no reason why it shouldn't have gotten that feature.

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

I don't think anyone has a bee in their bonnet. I'm sure we're all Nokia fans here and want to buy Nokia products but get disappointed by some aspects of how they do business.

I'm sure people will put together custom builds etc for the N900 but I'm really thinking of the normal user and of Nokia products in general.

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

Maemo 6 = multi-touch + capacitive screen => not fully possible on N900

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

No they don't.

The first iPhone version has hardware that is fully capable of supporingt MMS, but Apple decided not to allow it in iPhone 3 OS upgrade for original iPhone.

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

I'm not saying their support is perfect which is why Nokia should do even better.

Correct but there likely will be other features people will like on their N900 and which are supportable. It would also be nicer for developers to just have to worry about Maemo 6.

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

Thank you for answering your own earlier question. Its nothing more than the hardware limitation. How are you going to get a capitative screen on a resistive screen.
why did apple excluded 1st Gen iPhone for MMS where its hardware supports it completely?

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

There's no reason why the N82 can't have a landscape home screen, there are mods for it.

As I said earlier the N900 won't be able to support all features of Maemo 6 but it should get the features it can support.

You could ask Apple about the MMS thing.

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

Sorry, but you are clearly moving goal posts. In your earlir post you said: However they get all features that can be supported by their hardware and there is a consistent platform for developers to target.

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

Oh gosh you're so right then Rauha. No Maemo 6 for the N900 please.

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

With some of the ideas qgil showed us on his recent UI thread, it may require more shoehorning than is worth it, to port to the N900.

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

Quite possible - if it won't go it won't go. The first Android devices will probably stop getting new updates soon due to flash limitations but they did get some.

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

So with Maemo 6 we'll lose the apps that require pin point accuracy?
ie: sketching & handwriting apps, those with small buttons, etc

I mean, how will they be handled on the capacitive screens?
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for finger-friendly interface.. I'm guessing 90% of my personal usecase will be better served with capacitive screen anyway (provided the app is designed for it).

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

Nonsense. I have a computer that doesn't have the graphics chip required to run Windows Vista Aero and it's fancy transparent windows crap. But I can still install and run the rest of Vista.

With computers the issue is generally backward compatibility, not forward compatibility. Assuming you have the basic capacity (sufficient disk space to hold the OS, sufficient RAM to load the OS, and sufficient CPU to run the OS) the hardware, regardless of how old it is, puts constraints on the OS but it doesn't prevent the OS from running. OTOH, trying to run an old OS on new equipment often means that the equipment isn't recognized because the drivers for components do not exist in the new OS.

Unlike computers, with phones you program to your hardware. Maemo 5 and 6 reflect the smartphone nature of the N900 and its successor.

It's unfortunate that I would have a better chance of running the latest Ubuntu on a 20 year old 386 than running Maemo 6 on a two year old N810.

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

anyway, about the "no capacitive screen + multitouch in N900 = no maemo 6": just make a version with also/instead resistive screen drivers (or whatever software is needed), and disable multitouch gestures? o.o (I imagine it's just question of replacing or disabling one or more software packages..)
for the rest, I don't really see other possible hardware changes... (maybe a digital compass? but I don't see how that would limit OS components..)

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

There is plenty of new information that came today and I recommend you investing your time processing and digesting it instead of putting yourselves in especulation mode again.

One line to think about: how good is GTK+ at supporting multitouch and how smart would be to develop and productize that on Hildon/GTK+ when Nokia is actually investing in Qt?

Another 2 lines to think about: today it was announced that Maemo 6 applications will run on top of Web Runtime and Qt. Qt 4.6 support for Maemo 5 was announced today and the Web Runtime is basically a matter of Devkit and Javascript.

Do your math if you want to especulate further. :)

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

I would really hate to lose the ability for precise input on my portable computer. What a step backwards in progress from the Palm Pilot...

With that said, some companies are finding ways around that. Let's hope that Nokia is among them.

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

I suggest you guys check this out:

http://www.umpcportal.com/wp-content...ture_00073.jpg

From this:

http://www.umpcportal.com/2009/10/ma...-maemo-summit/

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

In the long run it seems Nokia is shooting itself in the foot application and compatibility wise. Like it's been pointed out before, resistive and capcitative touch screens have their differences and their are pros and cons to each use (for example, pin point accuracy).

Not to mention it seems Maemo 6 + Device will be released in late 2010? 2011? Assuming all the developers here get the n900, what's their motivation for buying the next device and then creating apps for that (unless Nokia is giving it to them or selling at a developer discount rate). Especially given the price of the current n900 (at least $500!). Even game consoles live longer then that. Then your problem is, you design an application but it may be hard to run on two different operating systems with possibly two different control methods. For example, see the iPhone + iPhone 3G vs. iPhone 3GS. And for that it's just a memory and cpu difference! Most developers on that platform just build their applications for the older generation in mind and avoid implementing features unique to the 3GS)

@qgil, true it might be worth developing in QT. But some people prefer GTK and sometimes applications are simply just ported over with little optimization.

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

What is the problem developing your Maemo 5 apps in whatever toolkit you prefer? They will most probably work as is in a Maemo 6 environment, not being affected in a context assuming finger multitouch.

There might be corner cases, but making the case out of the cornercase is a distortion. I'm a Maemo heavy user testing and using regularly plenty of apps. The N900 stylus stays in it's place basically always since I'm using fingers all the time. I believe this will be true for most Maemo 5 users.

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

Oh no..

I have this vision... after having to eat their words for dissing iphone users not having MMS... Maemo is heading toward the promised capacitive finger friendly land too :D

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

True, the amount of people who are interested in things like having an alternative operating system on there is a small group compared to the current Maemo group. And as Maemo becomes more popular I imagine most of the popularity will be with its regular use as a "smartphone".

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

It'll be dismissed as "we like it that way anyway" or something.

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

Now is a good time to start a thread called...

"I like capacitive screen before it's cool (in TMO)" :D

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

And you can build most of Fremantle with sw rendering and install it on your N8x0, but it will be dead slow. The reason you cannot install the actual N900 binaries is explained below.

I see only one difference: hardware configuration is mostly specified at build time instead of run time, because embedded platforms do not have a common configuration you can at least use to boot. But that does not prevent you from swapping out N900 and N810 kernels.

Good luck trying to run 586 binaries on a 386. Same as trying to run cortex-a8 binaries in a arm11.

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

Friend of mine gave me the iPod Touch 1g to play with... after playing with it for about the same time as I did with the N900/N00 I don't really notice much of a difference between the two technologies. And must say in the past have used resistive screens quite a bit(palm m105 and a few other devices). Once you understand how it works there isn't really much to it in the end.

Of course it might help that I tend to have a tad longer fingernails than the avarega geek.

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

Not too long, ehh...?
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_dE9ZVVetIV...ingernails.jpg :D

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

That is freakin' hideous....I'll be having nightmares now

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

You can make plenty of organic styli with all those materials..

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

+1 brainstorm eco hippie forum (CO2 neutral). Now a wooden N900 case instead of plastic one.. ;)

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

To go back to the topic of this thread (assuming anyone's eyeballs still work after those fingernails) that is the problem. "You can build", not "Nokia will build." Just as the community came up with hacked editions of later Maemo versions to install on the N770, I have no doubt that eventually some Maemo 6 version will be available for the N900 (and, hopefully, some sort of Maemo 5 will be available for my N810).

My point was that a a phone manufacturer, Nokia has not historically been concerned with making their latest OS compatible with existing hardware. If you are buying the N900, you should buy it based on the current capabilities of Maemo 5, not on the potential benefits of Maemo 6.

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

Why does the dang iPhone and its hardware get injected into a conversation about the N900 and its software. :confused:

EDIT: A rhetorical question^. No need to respond projecting the use of 2 or 3 year old technology on all future devices. It won't much matter then imho. :)

***

Thanks for your input regarding announcement timing and practical use qgil.

My next desktop monitor will more than likely be a touch screen... After using Maemo for awhile I sometimes catch my self trying to manipulate objects with my fingers on my current plain ol' 24" wide screen monitor when I do sit down at the desktop computer.

I'm thinkin' QT and developing GUI's like Maemo6 may have more influence on how we interact with all our computing devices in the future.

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

Wood? You can't kill the trees man!

To be truly eco-friendly, everything must be fashioned from poo

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

But that last sentence is exactly what I mean: "You can build", not "Nokia will build". Why are you waiting for Nokia to build it? Compaq (for example) won't provide you with updated versions of Ubuntu working with your 386 PC. As I said, you can install whatever OS you want on your N900.

Of course, I agree with the last part. Better not to expect Maemo6 to run on N900, as much as I don't expect Fremantle to run in N810. Not because it's not possible, but because nobody might want to do it.
In one year your shiny N900 is like what today the N810 is for the general population: nothing. Even though the hardware differences will be, like, 2%. It happens :( We are starting to see it already...

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

Why not 3.1.2? The question is which models can run the 4.0 in future... Do they disable 3gs's properties and drag 1g along further. 2 years is good support time imo.

I'd like to have maemo6 in my n900 but probably i'm gonna buy the next tablet next year if there are no major dealbreakers for me. And maemo is still doing big steps, i bet that when step 5 is ready, a lot has been standardized and there will be no more n810 style shortcomings.

And somebody speculated about hybrid touchscreen (capacitive and resistive at the same tine). That would be perfect for me!

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

I for one will miss the stylus if it goes away. I enjoy apps that allow doodling to accompany notes, and the precision it allows. It's a more elegant input tool for a more civilized PDA... ;)

Finger painting is fine now and then, but sometimes it just doesn't cut it.

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

2nd that notion. These days state-of-the-art hardware is state-of-the-art for about 15 minutes. Trying to always have the latest and greatest thing is pointless tail-chasing. There's always something better just around the corner. I'm not getting a N900 to have the latest hardware, I'm getting it to have good hardware running the most open, capable, i.e. the best, mobile OS.

Worrying now about if Maemo 6 will run on the N900 seems to me like worrying now if Windows 8 or RedHat 7 will run on your present PC. (From a regular user point of view, I understand it's can be a different thing for developers). Sometimes, ya just gotta enjoy using what you have and not be concerned about what might be in 1-2 years. I intend to get at least a couple of years use from a N900. If that's with Maemo 5, fine. If I can upgrade to Maemo 6, even better, and I hope I can. But if not I'll still be happy with it as is.

Keep in mind this is from a old-school guy that installs a new distro every few years, not months...but point is I'm not gonna worry about Maemo 6 or Snapdragon CPUs. I'm gonna buy and enjoy using a N900 and Maemo now.

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

We knew long ago Nokia N900 (or: the succesor of N8x0 series) would be based on OMAP3. We knew it'd have OpenGL. We knew there wouldn't be an official port for N8x0. We also knew many of the software would be open source and backports would be possible.

We know next Maemo 6 device is going to be based on Qt instead of GTK, but that does not break backwards compatibility, because current supports both. We know it may be based on OMAP3 or OMAP4. The former doesn't imply breaking backwards compatibility. We know it supports OpenGL ES (said so in slides).

But say a new device uses LTE, and all the cool stuff requires LTE speed. Does that break backwards compatibility? Officially, no. Yet, practically, yes. Say augmented reality becomes deeply integrated in our mobile computing. Devices without digital compass are then far less useful. Again, practically, requires you to either hack device or require new one.

One can argue: "yeah, iPhone OS 3 runs on my iPod touch or iPhone" but if you can't get a friggin' GPS working on it while neat applications and faster workflows use it (or actually, you simply cannot install software depending on GPS on the hardware) well then you're fried. And in this case, it is intentional crippling by Apple.

What you may reasonably expect by law is device works as advertised with its official, default features, as well as reliability and security upgrades, for a specific time (IMO about 2 years). Anything else is extra, free candy; gifts. So don't expect extras, don't look gifted horse in mouth. Don't demand. Be grateful instead.

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

Damn right! There's a few other minor quirks with the N82 that could easily be fixed with a firmware update. No reason why that can't be done.

And they shouldn't. They have nothing to do with Ubuntu. Nokia produces the software, so they should be updating it. The fact that they also make the hardware is irrelevant (for this example).

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

Thanks for this info! So basically OMAP3, OpenGL ES (2.0) and WVGA will be the same. This is good news for developers. And on the same post, multitouch as an extra input method on capacitive displays; it does not say that capacitive displays are a must...? Hopefully there will be many different kind of devices so that we can choose whether to buy a capacitive or resistive (similarly to laptops having a transflective or transmissive LCD). And perhaps the N900 will sell massively so that the upgrade path to Maemo 6 will be taken for granted -- the next year will be about intense and excited software development in any case, continuing from the present. It is funny what kind of speculation this arouses -- judging on the info on that link, I would take a positive stance.