Re: Archos 5 Android tablet
 

Ironically, for an OS from a web company, the thing I find the most deficient on Android is the web browser.

Sure, it's great compared to other phone browsers. Probably comparable to the iPhone (I'm not sure, I could ask my wife, who has both a G1 and an iPod-Touch). But, it's not a full fledged web browser. Google Apps are mobile+ versions of the Google Apps ("mobile+" meaning that they give the same general capabilities as the mobile versions of the apps ... plus a veneer of finger friendliness; for example, Google Reader is like "Google Reader Mobile" + "a finger selectable list instead of number key selectable list" ... but it's definitely no where near the caliber of the desktop version of Reader -- no keyboard shortcuts, no editing tags, etc. Just like on the "mobile" version of Reader).

What I want is ... well, sometimes I want finger mobile+, and sometimes I want full-fledged. Ideally, I could switch between 4 modes (with ranked preferences for defaults):

1. Mobile versions of pages
2. Mobile+ (iPhone and Android optimized)
3. Desktop
4. Desktop+ (take the same finger optimizations applied to "Mobile+" and apply them to the Desktop versions of the web pages)

I could have preferences based on URLs with regular expressions, in an ordered/ranked list ... and I could have a default case that advertizes my browser to sites as one of those four categories of browser/device.


But, then, that gets me into what I want as an ultimate software platform.

• Diablo (not having used any Maemo since, I can't really comment about those)
• Dalvik (with as many app stores as can be supported, and full hardware interaction)
• the above web browser (with Flash, obviously)
• Java runtime (it may be slow, but that's _my_ choice)
• screen rotation (to any orientation, not just two orientations) that can be set to auto/manual/off
• easy to set up and utilize remote desktop (I don't recall vnc server being that easy to set up on Diablo). Ideally, VNC Server, RDP server, Bluetooth HID and BIP, and Redfly support, each offering different types of remote control.
• screen scalability (support multiple screen resolutions (800x480, 800x600, 1024x600, 1024x768, 1280x800, 1280x1024, ... maybe more), when exporting the display allow mirroring onto a larger display (showing a sub-region on the device's built-in screen) or non-mirrored displays; if any of the screens is larger than a threshold set by the user, then don't do "maximus" type mode on THAT screen (ie. multiple windows vs 1 maximized window). That way you can have Maemo like "maximus" interactions on small screens, and independent floating windows on larger screens ... and probably allow Maemo optimized apps to run in fixed 800x480 type windows. (You might also want some form of preference setting for "these apps are small screen optimized, and these other ones aren't", giving the user a launch-time choice of "you sure you want run GIMP on your 800x480 screen?" ... and maybe even allow the launcher to have different binaries and/or config riles to run in different situations ... small screen pidgin vs big screen pidgin, for example)
• At the linux layer, use a full Linux environment, definitely not the very stripped down Android, and not even the somewhat stripped down Maemo. It's ok to have a default "Me" account, but the Linux environment shouldn't get in the way of you using it like a full Ubuntu system, at the command-line level.

So:
Unlike Android, full Linux environment + X environment.
But, like Android, full app ecosystem and app development environment.

Unlike Ubuntu, a FULLY polished GUI (you can sort of approximate aspects of Maemo's previous versions, in Ubuntu, by putting the application bar on the right side of the screen, but it's no where near as polished and integrated).
But, like Ubuntu, you'd have a full Linux environment, instead of a slightly reduced one that you have in Maemo or Android.

Unlike Maemo, you could use it as a real desktop on a larger screen, without worrying about re-starting sessions, integrating different log files, etc.
But, like Maemo, you could use it as a pocketable environment, as well.

In a way, you'd be getting the advantages of all 3 environments, while also having the option to work around the limitations of each environment. I could start OpenOffice on my N900 (lets say), viewing a document, making small editing notes ... then when I get to a desktop that has the Redfly software on it, I export the display to the desktop running at 1280x1024 (or larger), and now can use OpenOffice in a free-floating multiple-windows mode, resizing it to a size that's more manageable for real editing. I keep doing that until I'm done or need to move on ... return my OpenOffice window to 800x480 mode, end the screen export, and am back to just simple viewing and such on the N900. While I would save along the way, I wouldn't have to do any document transfers, etc.

If it had been a chat session, then I could have done that switch from light conversation on the N900 to heavy conversation on a larger screen (more conversation display) and a large keyboard, and then switched back to the N900 after ward ... using 1 conversation log (instead of having to stitch two logs from different machines together, later), and one chat session.

I'm not saying it would be fully "as good" as running OpenOffice in Ubuntu on my desktop. And I'm sure I wouldn't run GIMP on it, or other highly intensive application. But, for the class of applications I want to run on my pocketable, and even on my netbook, I think it would work quite well.

(and the hardware for that probably isn't here yet -- that's going to take a lot more RAM, and especially more VideoRAM to support those larger displays, than what's probably in the N900 now)

Probably as close to that as I could get now would be:
1) get Dalvik onto Maemo.
2) run Dalvik and Maemo apps on the N900, with local log files for chat, and local document storage.
3) when I get to a desktop, put the N900 into USB mass storage mode, and run desktop apps against the documents and log files on the N900 (so, desktop pidgin would somehow use the N900 for its log files, and/or sync its log files to the N900).

But, that's FAR less seamless.


So, anyway, my point was "while Android has advantages, like you say" and "this device is getting closer to what I _really_ want", neither the device, nor Android, is there yet (nor is Maemo, nor is Ubuntu). The OS needs more (something more like a blend of Android, Maemo, and Ubuntu) and it needs at least an option for a REAL web browser. (on Android, I'd at least _settle_ for 2 web browsers, the mobile+ one it has now, and a desktop-ish one ... with bookmarks or bookmark-shortcuts able to select which browser to invoke for that URL, and a "re-open this page in the other browser")

Of course, no one yet makes a device that has all of my features either (4.1" - 4.5" screen, 5 row HW keyboard, tilt screen, KVM support, full GSM+UMTS phone/messaging/WWAN, full BT stack, charge via USB client, 3.5mm audio+phone jack, ports placed intelligently, LOTS of battery). Different devices (G1, N900, Nokia Mako, the upcoming Archos phone, etc.) are delivering pieces of that puzzle, but none of them deliver the whole puzzle (except "ports placed intelligently" -- I don't think I've seen any pocketable device whose ports were placed in a manner that didn't make me wonder what drugs the designer was on).

Re: Archos 5 Android tablet
 

I thought it had HD outputs on the docks for TV hookup?

Re: Archos 5 Android tablet
 

yep, it has. and those docks are extra, not included.

so why fork over license pay for codecs that can handle HD for each device sold, when only some of them will actually be used that way?

still, it seems one have to both buy the codecs and the dock to get HD, the dock do not bundle the codecs (tho the archos page is vague to the extreme).

Re: Archos 5 Android tablet
 

From the initial posting on their forums, it appears that the device will only use 'approved' applications from their app store since they will have to be encoded to use their encrption chip security to make sure you do not use anybody elses applications.

Re: Archos 5 Android tablet
 

Well, there goes any interest I had in the Archos versions of Android.

Re: Archos 5 Android tablet
 

what forum would that be? i see no forum on archos.com...

Re: Archos 5 Android tablet
 

one thing i thought interesting... there's no (unless i missed... which is likely) mention of the amount of ram.. i am still debating about getting one of these... but the closed off os is a huge downer... i feel the os is the most important feature... thats why i love my n810... i have choices (tho some of the downright are more for the amusement factor)... so i'll see how thing pan out after a month or so of release.

Re: Archos 5 Android tablet
 

actually it does support standard Android apps:

http://forum.archosfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=25770

Re: Archos 5 Android tablet
 

I'm surprised nobody has broken it yet. Usually this is a challenge to people to break it wide open. I guess it's just that Archos doesn't have a big enough population for hackers to take interest in it.

Re: Archos 5 Android tablet
 

It's not unbreakable, it's just that it's not worth the fuss if in the end only people with JTAG and mad soldering skills can hack it - it's hard to build a strong community around that.

Re: Archos 5 Android tablet
 

also, their products lack the tech press attention of the fruit-phone...

Re: Archos 5 Android tablet
 

I don't want to sound like a Troll, because I am not, but I just went ahead and pre-ordered the Archos 5. I went for the 32 GB Flash version. What tipped me over is the included software for editing Office docs. Besides, I think that at the moment Android has quite a bit more apps and momentum. The fact that the Archos 5 handles multimedia so nicely (the only one to handle ogg out of the box) and its 800 mHz ARM processor (faster than the N900) is just icing on the cake for me. The company has committed to providing several free updates shortly after the device is released, such as an Android OS update and the Thinkfree update to allow editing (currently it only provides viewing). I am willing to wait for those.

I like Maemo so much conceptually, that if Nokia had an up to date non-phone tablet at a similar price point, I would probably have gone with it, even it had some disadvantages, like a slower processor, and less applications. The N810 is a bit long on the tooth. I am willing to spend a little over $150 over what an N810 is going these days to get a state of the art device, but paying over $350 over that, and all because it has features that I do not want or need (the phone and the camera), is just not appealing (enough).

Re: Archos 5 Android tablet
 

Actually ... Google's Cease and Desist letter to one of the Android hackers has me backing away from Android at the moment. Not saying I'm abandoning it, just saying I'm a bit more cautious about it.

Re: Archos 5 Android tablet
 

That problem had to do with some apps (closed source) that were being distributed without permission, not with the OS. It really is mostly a legal/copyright issue. They were on the right (if you allow for the existence of closed source apps). The developer is now complying with the law and there is apparently a workaround way of obtaining those apps. And Google doesn't care much about that as long as their copyright is respected. Google has to defend its copyright otherwise it risks loosing it.

Any way, I keep thinking of how much I would have preferred to get a Maemo device instead of the Archos 5, but I can't afford to spend that much money and I am not interested in an aging, about to be obsolete, underspeced, N810. However, I must admit that If the N900 played ogg out of the box and worked as a USB host, or better yet a standard SD card slot, I would have probably thrown all caution to the wind and sold something else to get it. ;)

Re: Archos 5 Android tablet
 

i cant help think that the android part of google is run as some personal fief of andy rubin.

with little or none of the "don't be evil" thinking that some tried to give google back in the day (and have now left).

Re: Archos 5 Android tablet
 

first of, the defend or loose is related to trademark, not copyright.

second, the only issue i see with the google apps (basically apps to access google services) is that they are supposedly only available for devices that google have certified, yet they seem to be given away free of charge.

so while its all being put in the copyright box, it seems to be a control issue, and one that kinda smells of apple style thinking :(

in the end, it seems the android part of google is confused about how to handle android...

Re: Archos 5 Android tablet
 

Never mind. I just found out that the battery on the Archos 5 is not removable. That is a deal killer for me. I just canceled my order. Once again I am in the market and on the lookout for the perfect (for me) device.

Re: Archos 5 Android tablet
 

Really? It was my understanding that he had, instead, abandoned Android. I suppose that's a form of "complying", but not what your statement implies to me.

Re: Archos 5 Android tablet
 

A new version of the firmware is out which backs up the proprietary applications from original firmware and uses these backups instead therefore they're not distributed with the firmware.

Re: Archos 5 Android tablet
 

Chippy says the software is too buggy to buy:

http://www.umpcportal.com/2009/10/ar...ressions-long/

Re: Archos 5 Android tablet
 

well he is pushing the software somewhat, trying all kinds of usage scenarios, but yes so far it seems unstable at this time.