Re: Sept 2009 Maemo Community Council Exit Polls...
 

Fair enough. I assume if you voted in the poll you don't have a problem with, otherwise why would you vote? I assume if you feel strongly enough that it is a bad idea, you would comment to that end (as others have). If you didn't vote and didn't comment, it either isn't that big a deal to you or you don't care one way or the other.

Therefore the majority don't care / don't have a big problem with it / are ok with it.

I suppose that there could be a large silent majority that have a big problem with it but for some reason won't speak up. I suppose we could run a poll on that ;) I know I do that on occasion.

Just my $0.02

On a side note, since this is an exit poll, you were my 2nd choice :)

Re: Sept 2009 Maemo Community Council Exit Polls...
 

Exit polls are wonderful things -- they provide an independent estimation of how the election will turn out.

In the recent election in Iran, if there had been a reliable exit poll, the controversy would not have occurred; it would be pretty obvious who really won.

Re: Sept 2009 Maemo Community Council Exit Polls...
 

Don't think author being candidate or not makes any difference here. Also don't think it is major problem. To me it feels a bit inappropriate and unconventional but I don't see it as real problem. And after all I felt similar about this poll too so I'm not surprised with this one either ;-) Looks like penguinbait simply loves to create polls about anything :-)

Anyway, maybe anything that gives our candidates opportunity to express themselves and anything that raises awareness about Maemo council elections in general is a good thing including exit polls :-)

Re: Sept 2009 Maemo Community Council Exit Polls...
 

I'd like to point out that more people voted in that poll than did in the last election for council. :D:D:D

Perhaps we need the number of polls created to the user stats section ;)

Re: Sept 2009 Maemo Community Council Exit Polls...
 

Because the real polls are still open dude.

I vote that this thread be removed... Just for fun. :)

Re: Sept 2009 Maemo Community Council Exit Polls...
 

I vote that if this thread is removed, all pretense of free discussion here be abandoned and it be openly acknowledged that this site is controlled by certain narrow interests for their benefit only.

The original vote was a sham, and the exit polls make this less of a sham.

Re: Sept 2009 Maemo Community Council Exit Polls...
 

The evil Maemo Community Council cabal is out to get me! The communists are taking away my freedom! Nokia wants to keep down the working man! You all just want to steal my pocket lint!

:rolleyes:

Re: Sept 2009 Maemo Community Council Exit Polls...
 

A legitimate exit poll yes, not one skewed to one class of voter (forum participants) and certainly not one that publishes results while the real polls are open. Perhaps in the future, this kind of poll could run as a service sponsored by a third party and the results view could be delayed until after real voting is over with.

No matter what the intent, published results of an exit poll will effect votes not yet cast.

I have plenty more to say but I will not say it until AFTER the polls close and in another thread...

Someone had a signature awhile ago about the states of a cat in a box that now somehow seems appropriate.

Re: Sept 2009 Maemo Community Council Exit Polls...
 

I understand what you're saying YoDude, having heard it for years... but I guess it just continues to confound me that any voter would let himself or herself be influenced by exit polls. Hell my own family can't even influence my vote! :D

Re: Sept 2009 Maemo Community Council Exit Polls...
 

Are Exit Polls not normally run while the polls are open? Aren't they normally reported while the election is still under-way? I know in Michigan they poll you on the way out and you hear about the exit poll results on the news long before polls close and the actual counts are in.

Additionally the main problem with Exit Polls is IF the reporting entity projects a winner. Nobody hear is declaring a winner, on top of that this is a STV system.

This means even IF this did project a clear winner it would only be the winner of the most votes, it has no bearing on who will get the second and third and fourth and fifth votes. This poll is meaningless except to possibly predict the person who received the most votes which means they will be one of the new council members.

Re: Sept 2009 Maemo Community Council Exit Polls...
 

Its all the damn sheep running around here, baah baah baah

Oh wait thats these folks

Re: Sept 2009 Maemo Community Council Exit Polls...
 

At least it wasn't another silly poll about egos. :p

Re: Sept 2009 Maemo Community Council Exit Polls...
 

Smarter folks than me are saying it.

Michael C. Dorf
Craig J. Albert
Neil H. Buchanan
Sherry F. Colb
Jamison Colburn
Michael W. Dowdle
Cristie Ford
David Gold
Thomas Healy
Ori Herstein
Anil Kalhan
Adrienne B. Koch
Paul Scott

Animalblawg
Balkinization
Blackprof
Cornell Law School
Georgetown Law Faculty
How Appealing
IntLawGrrls
Jurisdynamics
Legal History Blog
Legal Theory
Leiter's Law School Reports
Prawfsblawg
Scotusblog
U Chicago Law Faculty
Volokh Conspiracy

The above is a list of blogs and sites that have posted an opinion on this.

So I suppose that I am as Penguinbait says: just a sheep :o

I may be just a sheep but I do know when I'm being played by someone who thinks he is smarter than us sheep... :)

Re: Sept 2009 Maemo Community Council Exit Polls...
 

I'm not arguing your point, just expressing my dismay.

Re: Sept 2009 Maemo Community Council Exit Polls...
 

pffft, any way this poll is broken, it didnt ask for the token dneary gave me 7nOkiApUlL

Re: Sept 2009 Maemo Community Council Exit Polls...
 

i think this can sway final results b/c if someone can see a person they don't kinda like is in the running for a seat then they might strategically give there votes to that persons closest rival and try mess up there chances in real election.
what you have to remember also with exit polls where national politics are concerned its based on percentage of people, so they might only publish results of 10,000 people out a population of say 100 million so exit poll are based on tiny percent and have known to be completely wrong.
here though its not a tiny percent its basically anyone on site who cares and results here are more probable to be how it will turn out in real results

Re: Sept 2009 Maemo Community Council Exit Polls...
 

I don't see this being so dangerous here because of the voting method. Thanks to STV there are no votes lost so people don't need to be afraid to vote for someone who looks unlikely to win.

With STV it is best to vote for your preferred candidate no matter how popular he is. Either your surplus vote will help your next one or if your first one is out your second one counts.

Maybe there is still some space for tactical voting but fortunately most if not all candidates are great so we cannot spoil much here :-)

Re: Sept 2009 Maemo Community Council Exit Polls...
 

What I said is that your sheep IF this changes how you vote. As I also stated STV (like Fanoush) makes this impossible.


I ran the Exit poll as exit polls are run. It was done independently by maemo.org, I cannot control how people vote, NOR AM I ATTEMPTING TO. Quite frankly I am shocked at the allegations.

I understand you don't like Exit polls, and some other "smarter than you" people also don't like them. I however do, and I think their is many people smarter than me who also do. Should I create a list?

Better yet a poll, is there anything wrong with exit polls?

I understand what you are saying Yodude, I just don't support your opinion.

Do you really think this was done to get me extra votes? I thought I was a conspiracy theorist?

Re: Sept 2009 Maemo Community Council Exit Polls...
 

Straw man. :p

However I forgot about STV... indeed, STV makes a compare with real-life election systems (usually some form of plurality) inaccurate because STV provides a lot more protection mechanisms against tactical voting.

But maybe a non-candidate could have started the exit poll. Penguinbait, are you able to see who voted for who in the exit poll?

Re: Sept 2009 Maemo Community Council Exit Polls...
 

Not an issue here: everyone gets an anonymous token generated for them after their vote has been cast. They should store this away as all the votes are published in their raw form. People should verify that their anonymous token appears against their own vote.

Re: Sept 2009 Maemo Community Council Exit Polls...
 

I AM NOT ABLE TO SEE WHO VOTED OR FOR WHAT.

I suppose Reggie probably could, and I am not sure who else.

But no I am not able to see who voted, or how anyone voted.

This is an anonymous poll.

Re: Sept 2009 Maemo Community Council Exit Polls...
 

Why would it matter who started the thread / poll ??

Re: Sept 2009 Maemo Community Council Exit Polls...
 

It does not make it impossible. I just meant that if people know how STV works they should not be discouraged by low results of their preferred candidates in your exit poll. They still can vote for him without fear of having their votes lost.

Still one can look at poll results and be tempted to help some other candidate than his preferred one on the ground that the preferred one doesn't need his vote so much which can later backfire. So I definitely think this exit poll was not a good idea because it can affect real results. I just don't think in this specific case it is dangerous enough to be taken down. And I do see some positives too (already explained).

Still, maybe there should be some rule about exit polls next time?

Re: Sept 2009 Maemo Community Council Exit Polls...
 

Actually, there's still a lot of space for tactical voting with STV. It feels like rather a weak compromise between plurailty and RRV, honestly.

Re: Sept 2009 Maemo Community Council Exit Polls...
 

I guess what I was trying to say is look at AndrewFBlack, currently with the lowest number of votes in this poll. However he could be EVERYONE's second choice. Guaranteeing him a spot on council.


Am I understanding this correctly? It seems to me people are taking this a little too seriously, but I guess that's just my opinion. The fact that this poll can be voted in by people who cannot even vote for council makes it pretty invalid. The fact that its an STV vote and this is not makes the outcome of this poll even more useless.

But at least it gives people something to b1tch about while we are waiting for the election to conclude. You can thank me for that at least...

Re: Sept 2009 Maemo Community Council Exit Polls...
 

Yes but as the most harmful form of tactical voting I consider giving up one's preferred candidate because of despair that he won't get in. This reasoning may be well-founded so in fact you may feel you have no choice and this makes candidates which are not strong even weaker. STV solves this.

OTOH If you voluntarily vote for other candidate because your favorite one feels strong enough then you are rightfully punished for greediness and free riding when this backfires.

Or is there other sort of tactical voting here?

Re: Sept 2009 Maemo Community Council Exit Polls...
 

Wow, this thread is STILL going.

You guys obviously think about all this stuff far more than I ever have. About the only "tactic" I used in my voting (the real election - I haven't placed my vote here) is simply not voting for myself and choosing the people that I think would best do the job.

Re: Sept 2009 Maemo Community Council Exit Polls...
 

Sjgadsby's thanks on the post above compelled me to also click it.

ooo, this influence stuff is seductive!

Re: Sept 2009 Maemo Community Council Exit Polls...
 

Well, the actual voting results were visible during the time the election had prematurely ended.

Edit: What I meant was that the raw voting results were visible. That is, the list of all the authentication tokens and their corresponding votes was visible, so you could see all the votes, and count them up if you wanted to. There was no tally of votes visible. Sorry for the confusion.

Re: Sept 2009 Maemo Community Council Exit Polls...
 

I didn't bother to count up all the votes. I did notice that one user submitted their ballot without selecting any candidates. A commentary on the perceived quality of the candidates?

Re: Sept 2009 Maemo Community Council Exit Polls...
 

I voted for Ron Paul.

Re: Sept 2009 Maemo Community Council Exit Polls...
 

Texrat commented he had selected the candidates then when he went to the next page it showed he was voting for nobody. Perhaps someone else had this problem too but did not catch it. I guess thats why we have voting tokens and anonymous tokens to verify our votes. Man I hope it wan't me?

Re: Sept 2009 Maemo Community Council Exit Polls...
 

I know of several users who insist on casting an empty ballot to show their dissatisfaction with <insert personal bugaboo here>, so I'd suspect it was intentional.

Re: Sept 2009 Maemo Community Council Exit Polls...
 

That's rather unfortunate, as there are so many good candidates, some who don't even get into politics here and surely deserve votes for that alone (not meaning me).