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- - User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32110)

YoDude

2009-09-28 04:24

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

Quote:

Originally Posted by christexaport (Post 335026)

YoDude, I've come to realize we're just not ever going to be friendly to each other or work well together, so I tend to try to ignore you and run when I see you in a thread, so I'm definitely not following you. Nor am I speaking about you all over the forums in disrespectful and comical terms, or barraging your threads with the same post you managed to paste above, "demanding" I acknowledge you. (I'm 6'3", 215 lbs, and not used to anyone trying to push me around or demand anything from me)

I've tried to do a complete 180 on my attitude, and many have noticed. I suggest you follow suit. We all make mistakes. I've left you alone, and you still are full of one liners and attitude towards me, and that's fine. But its making you seem the bad guy. I'm glad the light is moving to you, but I really just want to get things done, not fight with you.

You don't mention all of the foul stuff you said that was removed, nor the multiple disruptive serial posts ("I'll keep bringing this up...until there is at least some acknowledgment that thread crapping is unproductive in a forum and cross posting is considered bad form" over and over again... Remember that??) with the same edited image in my threads demanding that I acknowledge your stance on my methods for drawing an audience. You can play nice guy here, but I'm not fooled by your fake innocence, dictatorial demands, and elite attitude. I know what purpose you have in my life, and helper isn't it. So I'll stay out of YOUR way.

Since you think my forums, which AREN'T linked here, just the news pages, apply to anything here, here's what you fail to realize:

"What I don't get is the fact that the forums you advertise in your signatures have rules that forbid the behaviors I questioned yet you target me as if I'm the man or Suttin'"

This isn't SFF or MFF, but TMO, and those rules were set for those sites, not this one. We don't allow jerks, either, but many are here and never banned.

From the rules section of MY forums...
SPAM, posting in different sections, reposting and advertise-postings (also in avatars) will not be tolerated, users will get warned or banned
This is in reference to people that try to sell iPhones, just like on this forums. Its not a classified ad, but a forum. Posting in different sections is about making the same thread in various locations, not posting in multiple threads. We usually let common sense rule, and put helping others as the first rule.

I didn't see putting my sites up as advertising since our stuff will be posted here, and we even allow exceptions for certain users. Some put their site as their name, but I didn't get that chance, and wanted Teo to if anyone did. I just wanted to let everyone know I'm representing my community, not myself. When the rule stipulates that I remove it, I'll oblige. But we're not a for profit organization, and we operate out of our Administrator's pocket, which is admittedly not deep. We're a service.

I like rules, but this site doesn't have clear cut ones just yet, so you shouldn't be trying to police me. Try putting up a brainstorm and letting the community decide what's best, not trying to run how I'm doing things. I see us on equal footing. We're members of a community, and that's it.

I guess you're not familiar with the Ambassador program for Nokia's many efforts. That's what I'm referring to. But if you plan to keep your mouth shut, hallelujah. Prayer works. Just stick to it. I haven't said much to you since you acted like you were my father, and it will stay that way. I've better things to do, like get this ASR thing moving...

I asked you nicely in this thread to please leave me
alone...

I posted verbatim in this thread the post you are asking me to remember. Do you even read the posts you are replying to?
:confused:

Now you are accusing me of removing foul posts or you are impling that moderators had to.

I'm going to have to ask a moderator to step in here to set the record straight please!

The image that I think you are accusing me of editing was a screenshot taken and posted by another member. I have not edited it. He circled your name and asked you something along the lines of "why are you digging up old threads and cross posting", as I recall.

I don't know of anywhere I demanded anything of you... I have asked you to post pointers to where I have. Please don't threaten me with your physical size.

...again moderators please step in and comment on what I percieve to be threats.

christexaport

2009-09-28 05:51

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

Sorry, YoDude. That ship has sailed. I moved on. Why don't you try reading your own posts. I quoted the parts I mentioned so you would have more time to do something constructive, and here you are again since you asked.

"I'll keep bringing this up...until there is at least some acknowledgment that thread crapping is unproductive in a forum and cross posting is considered bad form" over and over again...

Now I'm a busy guy, and I have work to do. Is there an ending point to all of this useless back and forth for you? Please find it. I'm done, brother. OK? All's past and forgiven. Unless you have some help for me, just let it go.

christexaport

2009-09-28 05:55

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

And I'm not accusing you of removing any posts, I'm talking about the mods, and I'm glad they did. It was a few of us, and I got the most heated. I'm done embarrassing myself, my community, and this forum. We don't want that floating in the web forever. We're men. Let's act like it.

qole	2009-09-28 08:27

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

Guys, please. Settle down. Maybe exchange PMs or e-mails or something, rather than arguing in public forums like this?

This is an especially ironic thread to have these kinds of arguments.

christexaport

2009-09-28 09:21

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

I agree, qole. Its not conducive to anything. How can we make the site better? That's what we're supposed to be discussing...

Soulfarmer

2009-09-28 10:11

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

Quote:

Originally Posted by christexaport (Post 335145)

I agree, qole. Its not conducive to anything. How can we make the site better? That's what we're supposed to be discussing...

I have rather felt this has been a discussion of two persons/sides, the other is leftie and the other right handed and both want to make one handed bandit but which hand to remove?

And I do try to stay away. I am leftie myself :)

pelago

2009-09-28 10:21

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

Quote:

Originally Posted by texaslabrat (Post 335022)

How about users that habitually verbally abuse and physically threaten other members. Can we do something about THOSE? I've put one on ignore already, but it's a shame that person still has an account here IMHO. Just sayin'...

Hang on, there's an ignore function on t.m.o? I haven't found it...

JayOnThaBeat

2009-09-28 10:23

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelago (Post 335179)

Hang on, there's an ignore function on t.m.o? I haven't found it...

user profile > user lists > "add to ignore list"

christexaport

2009-09-28 11:27

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

and spell jay's name right...

ysss	2009-09-28 11:49

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayOnThaBeat (Post 335180)

user profile > user lists > "add to ignore list"

thx dude.

Just to clarify, the 'user profile' selected should be the intended target's, not your own.

timsamoff

2009-09-28 14:40

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

Quote:

Originally Posted by christexaport (Post 334952)

We need more moderators here, too.

There are actually quite a few. And, we are constantly having conversations about what goes on here. Honestly, moderators in some of the other forums that I'm a part of, would have deleted many of your posts as duplicates and/or cross-posts -- which are usually frowned upon. As we are a friendly place here, yours have not been deleted (yet).

Quote:

Originally Posted by christexaport (Post 334952)

As for YoDude, this isn't just your forum. It is all of ours. And you can't enforce rules that don't exist because you don't like them.

Actually, as a user-contributed (and moderated) forum, this is exactly what should happen. It doesn't mean that all ideas will be acted upon, but every user (as you know) has a right to express their ideas. These days, I wish we had more "formal" rules here too, but it's never been an issue before.

All of the moderators here (myself included) receive emails and PMs from various members about all sorts of stuff that happens here. We also get email alerts to user-reported spam, etc. If anyone here ever has an issue, they are free to contact us and request an action or ask for an opinion. We don't need to clog up the forum with debates about whose posts might conflict with rules that don't (yet) exist.

Tim

Texrat

2009-09-28 14:43

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

The N900 is really going to open this place up-- for better or worse.

Change is inevitable. Question is, what form(s) and to what degree?

Bratag

2009-09-28 15:08

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

That was so tacky. Rude as hell. So new users that find this site formidable are idiots and *****s?! They don't need a cellphone?! This is classic apathetic behavior, and that's the stigma around here from the word around the Symbian community that coud easily be fixed with a little empathy and manners. We can read, you know? I'm sure you probably meant it in jest, but it isn't funny if you're the one referred to. I fight for the little guy everyday, and i don't like the elite attitudes that flow around here.

I'm sorry that you thought that was an elite attitude. I consider it a realistic attitude. We live in an age where information is more available than at any other time in the history of mankind. All it takes is the exertion of a small amount of effort to LOOK for it, this can be as simple as typing 1-5 words into a search bar. The growing trend, however, is to not even bother exerting THAT amount of work and simply starting a new thread asking a question that has been asked and answered many times before, people want things handed to them on a silver platter. That clutters up the boards and pushes threads of more importance out.

So excuse me if I have no tolerance for that. I grew up in an age where information had to be worked for. Google.com was something I would have KILLED for. I don't think we are doing ourselves, nor the new thread posters any favours by pandering to their every whim. As you say "We can read, you know" I suggest they start by reading the results of a simple search.

Edit: I am a new user and I managed just fine when I got here, does that make me smarter than others? or does it mean they were just less inclined to put in any effort to figure it out?

noventa98

2009-09-28 15:11

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 335301)

The N900 is really going to open this place up-- for better or worse.

Change is inevitable. Question is, what form(s) and to what degree?

Considering the general climate here there will be probably more friction in the coming weeks, when new potential or actual buyers will come in to seek (also basic) information and may not be used to the maemo platform and web site intricacies etc..

Unless something is done to:

a) better organize and present information on the N900 aimed in particular at new users who have not been on the maemo ship before.

b) Keep the tone down, be polite and avoid certain posting contexts which are useless and create impression of an aggressive group at least to people who are just approaching maemo.

Otherwise I believe new users will just go to other sites which will pop-up if there is demand (and there will be) and maemo.org, to a certain extent, will have missed an opportunity to serve the community of users at large.

I for one must say that the tone and content of certain threads and posts in these few days have been such that I have been seriously thinking of just "abandoning" the community, which I follow since the N770 was on the market.

Regards,
Antonio

Texrat

2009-09-28 15:44

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

I agree noventa98, and after getting foolishly caught up in recent controversies I'm going to certainly do my part to focus more on signal than noise.

Who's with me??!!? :D

christexaport

2009-09-28 17:22

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

Well Bratag, my mother taught me not to call someone a name you wouldn't call them to their face, and to respect those with less intelligence than ourselves. You're lucky to be so smart, and you should honor the power that gave you such knowledge, not step on those without it.

idiot is a strong word. When my nephew comes here for information, please don't talk to him like that. He's 16, and probably smarter than us both, but certainly worth more respect than that.

The things some people think is acceptable... You can ruin the good thing we have without some adjustment.

christexaport

2009-09-28 17:45

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

Quote:

Originally Posted by timsamoff (Post 335300)

Well since you ARE a mod, and you haven't acted like my father yet, and I totally think your media work is top notch, by the way, what exactly is cross posting? Because I was smart enough to use search to seek threads about screen rotation. I found a few, but none directly pertained to the N900. I didn't want to pose a question there and hijack the thread, so I posted asking those with pertinent knowledge to help me out in a dedicated thread/Brainstorm.

How else should I have done it, especially with zero help in the way of guides around here?? I didn't have any disruptive intentions, and I didn't post anything else in the threads. How do I know who knows what and how to engage them for advice? What good does a brainstorm do if it can't be found without you directing them there?

I actually posted in my own community about the mentioned brainstorm. I'm working on self help, but I did ask for help! Know what I got? "Go do something about it!" How can I know I'm breaking a rule if the only people able to help are only willing to do so if it benefits them, or are willing to attempt to block and campaign against you getting help?

Some of my posts HAVE been deleted, or they're hard to find. I made some comments to a couple of guys in the heat of a melee that I wanted to remove, and they are already gone. Why, as a mod, are situations like that allowed to fester in the first place?

I'll be the first to say I dug into a few guys I found downright rude, but if you allow the guys to call people idiots and treat the incoming people here they way many do, why would you expect less? Everyone is ready to tell me how wrong I am, and I'll probably beat you to it, but you have to stick up for the new guys just as much as your rude cronies. Don't tell me you can't cross post and thread crap, as they say, but you can call people out of their names, treat them like dirt, and attempt to lock others out of the use of the forum services!

Do you think that is a good environment for this forum? Is that the type of atmosphere tolerated by the mods? Because if so, let me know. I certainly won't tolerate it. I have adjusted my attitude, but the same jerks that ran lips before still do. How many posts must I have before I can call you an a..hole and whatnot? See my point?

Quote:

Originally Posted by timsamoff (Post 335300)

how about now? it SHOULD be that a user DEMAND that I acknowledge something I don't know? How do I know who to listen to? I won't ever listen to someone that approaches me like a jerk. I think you're letting your friendships with some of the members here get in the way of impartiality. I could be wrong, but I wasn't attacking anyone unprovoked. If you knew me, you'd know I'm not about that at all. But as a mod, you have work to do, in my opinion. I'll be your scapegoat, but now it seems like you're condoning the jerks and blasting me for being one back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by timsamoff (Post 335300)

All of the moderators here (myself included) receive emails and PMs from various members about all sorts of stuff that happens here. We also get email alerts to user-reported spam, etc. If anyone here ever has an issue, they are free to contact us and request an action or ask for an opinion. We don't need to clog up the forum with debates about whose posts might conflict with rules that don't (yet) exist.
Tim

emails from who, your friends? I don't even know who the mods are, or their email addresses. Maybe you only know part of the story. I'm getting heated just writing this, and I ask that you be even handed when you do decide to deliver any justice around here. You can't have guys running around with that, "I'm not leaving until you acknowledge me" crap. If you have some authority, ok, but how do I know, and why don't i have that authority?

bunch of bs, bro, gotta admit. You should PM me and give me a call. I don't think you know exactly what has been going on lately.

christexaport

2009-09-28 17:48

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

this forum is so hellishly out of whack. how do you expect to get anything done with the double standards and cronyism? I will be here for years, Lord willing, and I won't ever be one of them. Can't stand good ol' boy buddy system bs.

Texrat

2009-09-28 17:50

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

Chris, Tim's last comments were general. The hostility toward him is completely unwarranted, as are the allegations of cronyism, etc.

As far as cross-posting: it can be avoided and still acheive what you were looking for very simply. Create your thread, and in the first post link in other related threads.

On a related note, your passion is certainly welcome I'm sure but if I were to give you one bit of advice (that I also frequently have to give myself) it would be to temper that enthusiasm a bit. Some forums are more open to that level of energy-- this is not one of them.

It's easier for the participant to adjust to the forum than the other way around... and more sensible.

timsamoff

2009-09-28 18:34

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

Chris,

Look under our usernames. If it says Moderator, then we're Moderators. If you click on our username, the option to PM us is there (and, imho, what you just posted should have been a PM to me).

As for emails, well they're not so hard to find. Seriously, Google my last name.

Texrat just explained how not to cross-post. If you create a thread, people will see/read it -- no need to link to it in several other threads.

As for name calling... It has never really happened here to a great extent. There have been incidents, but nothing as seemingly major as this. We, as mods, are slow to react, because we're trying to figure out how to deal with it. But, admittedly, the flurry of posts makes it hard to keep track.

Contacting mods directly, would have alleviated a lot of the pain here. When one begins to get personal is when one opens themselves to personal attacks. That's just the way it is. The first time you felt offended, you should have contacted a mod with a link to the offense. These are the emails/PMs that we receive daily -- and no, not from my friends, although everyone here are my friends, so... :)

Tim

noventa98

2009-09-28 18:38

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

Now, folks, let us take a

DEEEEEEEEEEEP

Breath

and turn page..... Please.

Thank you

sjgadsby

2009-09-28 18:51

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

Additionally, please note the "Report This" link available near the number and date of each post. Please report spam, link farming attempts, abusive posts, inappropriate language or images, etc. The report will go to all moderators, and we'll act appropriately.

Thank you for your assistance in this. As this community grows, it's becoming more difficult for any one of us to follow every thread.

christexaport

2009-09-28 19:17

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

whatever. seriously. I'm glad for the help texrat. its all good, and I'm just not taking sh.. from another person period. I played nice guy for a couple days, but it does no good. We're allowed to have opinions, as Tim said, so I'll keep to mine, attitude and all.

I'm a respect me and I respect you type. This is for the birds. I'll check who I need to, and speak to others as they speak to me. Its easy to see when looking through a window. I see right through most of the cats.

If you don't like my attitude, don't mess with me. That simple.

JayOnThaBeat

2009-09-28 20:37

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

Quote:

Originally Posted by noventa98 (Post 335471)

Now, folks, let us take a

DEEEEEEEEEEEP

Breath

and turn page..... Please.

Thank you

Dude, no way.

Did you know that ur post would be the last one on the page, and that we would literally have to listen?

F**ckin' deep, bro.

:)

noventa98

2009-09-28 21:31

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

Good point Jay.

I didn't know but later found out: I felt a little embarrassed...

In a way, this stumble was in the style of a Stan Laurel and Oliver Hardy film.

I had a good laugh.

mece	2009-09-28 21:31

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

I'm new on this forum, although I have been reading it for a long time, and here is what I think.

I consider this an open source community forum of the old school type. When I was an overenthusiastic teenager I learned the hard way how these work. I learned that you should, as a newbie, never argue with the elite, no matter how friendly they claim the the forum is.

The worst crime a newbie can commit is demand something, and asking for something twice counts as demanding.
If you get caught demanding something, apologize and hope that someone else takes up your problem, because if you mention it again, you will have a hard time.

There are a ton of these rules, but demanding and nagging are the worst offenses afaik. There is a list somewhere but I'm too lazy to look it up right now.
Now these "rules" aren't written as official, but that does not mean they are not there.

That said, I still feel this is one of the friendlier communities I've been a part of, and I hope it stays that way. Even under the strain of quick expansion and a flood of newbies (like myself).

Luckily, people like JayOnThaBeat bring some much needed humor :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayOnThaBeat (Post 335587)

Dude, no way.

Did you know that ur post would be the last one on the page, and that we would literally have to listen?

F**ckin' deep, bro.

:)

I LOL'd.

Den in USA

2009-09-28 21:37

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

Quote:

Originally Posted by mece (Post 335629)

I'm new on this forum, although I have been reading it for a long time, and here is what I think.

I still feel this is one of the friendlier communities I've been a part of, and I hope it stays that way. Even under the strain of quick expansion and a flood of newbies (like myself).

Welcome, Mece, to the forum!

Texrat

2009-09-28 21:37

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

Jay is a piker. I've seen his stand-up act. People paid him to stop.

Texrat

2009-09-28 21:43

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

Post it. :D

DaveP1

2009-09-29 16:53

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

In an attempt to pull the thread back to the original topic, especially since I don't know whether I should want to contribute to the null-Jay movement, let me offer a few items to consider.

First, does this forum want to be the forum that both developers and new users go to first? It would seem to be that with the closure of InternetTabletTalk that was the intention. If it is still the intention I would suggest a few changes in the layout.

From a new user perspective, the main page could be improved. Especially when accessing it on an IT, a n00b may never see anything but the three Talk forums. Having a:
Category1: Forum1, Forum2, ...
Category 2: ...
header showing all the categories and forums in a few lines might direct some questions to a more appropriate forum. I would also eliminate the last post line to condense the overall listing.

The explanations of the various forums could be enhanced for a new user. For example, the explanation for Maemo 5 could mention that it is only the current OS for the N900 and that it won't run on the N810 or N800. Going back in time, the explanation for Maemo 3 could mention that it was the OS originally installed on the N800 but that it could/should be upgraded to Maemo 4.

The use of stickies could be improved. Every forum would benefit from the type of explanation offered in the N810 forum ( http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=28382 ). Also, general explanations of the area covered by a forum could be added. For example, the two threads in Tablet 101 could be moved to closed sticky threads in the N810 forum.

As far as the forums, I would suggest (again) that the Newbie forum be made much more prominent. Many people with dumb questions are smart enough to understand that it's a dumb question and will post in an IT for Dummies sort of forum rather than clog up the other forums.

Lastly, promote the Wiki! If I've read the Intro page before clicking on Talk, I will have read that this is "an open source community developing software". The last place (as a n00b) I'm going to click is Community. As a result, I will never know the Wiki exists. I would suggest making the sidebar "Talk FAQ" into "FAQ" with a drop down to "Talk Forum FAQ" and "Maemo Wiki". I would also suggest that whenever someone has the time they answer questions by creating a Wiki page and linking from Talk to that page.

mece	2009-09-29 17:23

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

@DaveP1
I agree on all points. Great ideas all around.

Jaffa

2009-09-29 23:44

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

So, anyone volunteering to get started on the new stickies?

RipTorn

2009-09-30 01:03

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

Everyone seems to be friendly enough to me :p
I've been here on and off since 2007 and most of the angst seems to be only in the last month or so and only seem to be centered around a few people.

On the whole I love the Maemo community and have found most people to be very helpful to all the people around them which is why I love reading and visiting these forums.

Again people are here for one reason - Maemo. Which means we all have a common interest ;)

jandmdickerson

2009-09-30 01:57

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

Quote:

Originally Posted by RipTorn (Post 336385)

I agree I think this is an isolated (in time) incident. Perhaps the squeeky wheel does get the grease....;)

Soulfarmer

2009-09-30 05:34

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

I have been here almost a week now, eg a n00b. Recent controversial cross-posting (&what not) incident might or might not be usual every now and then, but I think two very different kinds of readers visit t.m.o. First are the devs and NIT enthusiasts and the second are users who have never used NIT before, maybe communicators at most and now want to know everything there is to know about N900.

The first group know the ropes of the forum and know how it behaves when incidents happen and my guess is that the most eager people from the second group makes those incidents happen. N900 is bringing two worlds together and t.m.o might really need to evolve a little in the process.

I admit that I am no dev nor user of previous NITs, I have only been using communicators for about 4 years now so I belong to the group looking for answers. And as some might have seen already, I react poorly to push and shove type of tactics when trying to ignore the other group.

I really really like the fact that here are some old timers who know what is what, some who are in the know and the fact that not everyone is here just to look for answers. I am happy to know and actually see, that there are a lot of people who are here to give answers to those willing to listen.

I'd like to help t.m.o anyway I can, answers about maemo are not my forte though. :) . Oh, ~4 paragraphs and almost each I started with me... I like myself be heard I guess.

ysss	2009-09-30 07:27

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org

I think we all just have to be more open with one another.
I propose something like this to be MANDATED in everyone's sig:

Code:

TMO CHARACTER SHEET

==============================================

Username       : ysss

Class          : Power User

Alignment      : Pragmatist

Sense of humor : [****------]

Patience       : [*---------]

Agro           : [*****-----]

Weapon(s)      : Dual wields iPhone + BB