Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

For those non-techie folks that have simple needs, maybe the N900 actually is the wrong choice for them. There's no shame in that. If/when they finally wrap their heads around the possibilities that the N900 offers (and hopefully understand how dumb MMS is), perhaps then they'll buy one.

I think one fallacy at play here is that a device can only be considered 'good' if it caters to every whim of every user.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Tried MMS once. Could NOT get it to work. Got frustrated. Sent text instead. Maybe I am a ***** :eek:

You're right. I actually don't think the N900 will suit everyone regardless. Why should it? I think it will suit me, and it's my very first phone-capable pocket computer (had 2 n810s, still have one, love it, want more speed is all).

(Wonder if I'll ever turn the phone bit on. Probably, but I'll miss my 2125i's flashlight... Oh wait, lcuk made one for liqbase. I think I'll be okay now...)

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

You're partially right.

But you should remember, that more advanced users/developers can be disappointed too - no some APIs (at least I don't see for example SMS).

Generally I'm closer to opinion of some people here - Joe will not understand, that Nokia N900 is special.

But Joe will understand in the future, that Nokia N1000, N1010 and so one are special. Because they have got everything (what was in their non-smartphone device) and many other software from the beginning.

For now Joe can go rather into Android devices for example.

PS. We can have another scenario too - Nokia N1000, N1010 won't have something. And only some people will be interested in it. Many other will still select for example Symbian or Series 30...

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Nu uh Joe the Plumber understands! Oh wait you're talking about Joe Average. Carry on.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Is there not a slight worry that if enough Joes don't buy the n900, nokia shareholders will ditch the idea in favour of something that Joe will buy because it supports their bottom line? And there will be no n1000, n1200?

I think that's what concerns me, as a newcomer to all this. All these years despite being a bit of a geek I've stayed away from the likes of linux because I felt inadequate not being able to write code over breakfast. People saying "I don't care if this phone doesn't sell because it's perfect for me" aren't taking on board that nokia is a commercial company, and you can bet your Open Source they care whether it sells. After testing the MID a few times they've taken the plunge with this one and aimed it at a much wider market. They need Joe Average to at least take an interest. And he won't as long as it sells on the CPU - he wants to know what it does.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Who is this guy average Joe, and who is his sister average Josephine?

does he want to
-to make calls ....check
-to browse the web ... check
-to do his emails ....check
-to send sms ....check
-to play his music ....check
-to take pictures ....check
-take videos ....check
-use GPS Maps ....check
-listen to internet radio ....check

average Joe probably does not even know what picture messaging is, as least not in the UK, and if he does he probably sends mms to other average Joes that dont know how to read them, cause they probably have a phone that tells them to log on line to see the picture.

Sure there are some things the N900 does not do, but then my Macbook does not make calls either.

average Joe does not know a Blutooth from a toothbrush, and does not care.

No the N900 is not for average Joe, but average Joe COULD use the N900 if he wanted to.

Sorry if this sounds arrogant against average Joe, but average Joe is just not interested.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Sorry if this has been answered. Why are we trying to sale a niche product to the average user? Nokia has said this is not for the average user. Atleast that is why I heard when Ari was interviewed after Nokia World, and I dont think this is changed. I thought this was for the techy person who needs to be online all the time, or something like that.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Original question was: "Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?". Our answer was: No. Next question was: why ? Because.... (and here were few reasons)

We are not trying to sale this product for the average product. We're trying to explain, what could make, that average user will understand, that this device is OK.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Otto Normalverbraucher as Joe Average is called here in Germany (Otto Average Consumer), usually buys subsidized phones for 1 € or uses a cheap dumbphone with a prepaid SIM card.
The iPhone, although heavily advertised by T-Mobile and sold for 1 € is not so common among Otto Normalverbrauchers. Everybody knows it and wants it but the phone contract is too expensive.
Otto Normalverbraucher also doesn't feel the need for mobile internet.
The iPhone is just interesting because of apps and as status symbol.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Okay well then you need to tell them the important stuff...:D

Lesser-known Linux facts
How well do you know Linux, the open source operating system behind the Nokia N900? Here are some little-known facts about it:

The Linux logo is a penguin called Tux that, appropriately enough, was designed on the open source arts package GIMP. Linux creator Linus Torvalds was bitten by a penguin in Australia in 1993.

In the Indian state of Kerala, all secondary schools must run Linux on their computers.

Almost 90 per cent of the world’s top 500 supercomputers run on Linux.

Titanic was the first major Hollywood production to use Linux computers for its CGI imagery.

Linux powers many consumer electronic devices, including the TiVo personal video recorder, routers and music workstations.

See source:

http://conversations.nokia.com/almanac/nokia-n900/

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

The N900 is targeted to anyone interested in this device regardless of stereotype. I never saw any marketing verbiage from Nokia saying, "The N900 is for geeks, nerds, and technophiles." There is a video interview recently where the Vice President said something along the same lines that if you like the N900, go for it.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

I could only imagine the ad... it starts off with the phone alarm going off, because he needs no clocks. a late 20 something scrawny and scruffy guy gets up. He goes upstairs and mom has his breakfast ready. he checks the bus schedule on his n900 and plug's in his earphones, calls up some last.fm and walks to the stop. on the bus he is playing mario cart al la NS emulator until he arrives at his cube at work....

awesome.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

You missed the close up of the Star Trek wallpaper on the desktop...

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Nokia has repeatedly stated that the N900 and maemo 5 are step 4 of 5. They are hiring rapidly in their maemo department even hiring ex-Apple executives to join the maemo devices team. There is very little chance (read that as ZERO chance) of them bailing out before the N1000/Harmattan.

The N900 will see full support until the next device comes out regardless of sales. I believe that Nokia is betting on its services on top of Nokia hardware being the real money maker, regardless of whether that hardware is running maemo or Symbian.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

I think the N900 is really interesting except for a few things that I would have done differently and I'll probably get one eventually because I'm a gadget freak. But I don't think I'm the target audience and I'm not sure who is. Plus, whoever it is, I hope they don't come across this thread which is less than helpful in spots. Assuming the target audience is interested in using the phone (rather than developing for the phone) does the N900 make sense for any part of that audience?

What one or two items do you think the N900 does better than the iPhone, the PalmPre, an Android phone, or a WinMo phone?

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

I'm not a tech savvy person (i'm just a gadget enthusiast, and I'm buying this phone for a few reasons:
Free apps :P i've been paying a bundle for blackberry apps that don't really please me. It's fully open source meaning that I can REALLY contribute to the community offering ideas and testing.

Always on - I love that I'll always be on my MSN & GTALK accounts. I can always make skype calls with my best friends in other countries.

REAL web browsing :D.

I don't know how to program, and I don't plan to. I don't know how to debug or enter into root mode for android or anything like that. But I'm SOLD on this device. 32 gigs of space for music videos and documents, really flashy OS. The only thing I want is for me to be able to get a decent battery life out of it. On my blackberry bold on 3G and a 1500 oem mah battery I can get about 5 hours of constant use. Let's see what I'll get on the N900. I already ordered a spare battery and spare outlet charger ;) hehehe.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Free apps?

Mmmm Since the appstore model Apple has created, I would be surprised if many decent developers would continue to make any useful apps absolutely free and not try to sell them via Ovi Store.

Personally, I am a C/C++ developer for 15 years, the first few apps I write will be free while I learn GTK and Maemo. But any useful apps after that I would attempt to charge 1 or 2 Euros.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Okay... I blink and there is 6 pages of responses. That has never happened to me before :B

So, interesting enough, most people seem to agree to a point that the N900 isn't going to win over Joe Average (This Joe A. is a U.N. citizen). And people are okay with that. I agree that as a step 4 of 5 device, maybe it's not intended to be.

However, I want Maemo to be a success. Enough of a success that Nokia will put resouces in it and not just have it as a backup plan to the next Symbian series. For now, enough of a success to make sure step 5 will be reached.

How much of a success does it need to be? Well, maybe not much. Maybe I just am too impatient. The 770, N800 and N810 were not big sellers, and still we got the N900. I just think a success means Maemo will get further, faster. If Maemo isn't a success in 2010, I think Android will get further, faster.

I want Maemo to become Nokias point of focus. And that will only happen if it gathers interest in broader masses.

But, we'll wait for step 5 of 5. Okay.

At some time in the future, though, say step 6 of 5, I'd like to see full featured Maemo devices in the 5800 price range.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

I agree with mobiledivide. I also belive Noka will full support the N900 and will provide improvments for the device (1st and 3rd party software).

Let's not kid ourselfs, Nokia is no small company. They are in the money making business. I doubt very much, that the previous tablets generated large profits. (N810 Wimax Edition? What a waste of development money). Yet they made this 4th version of that silly Linux powered tablet. Why? Because they know they cannot rely on Symbian alone. Not againts iPhone, WebOS, Android or even the mythical WinMo7.
By the way, the phone part in Symbian was just an afterthought. Epoc, Symbian's ancestor, was an OS for PDAs, not phones. And like WinMo < 7 it is really old and rusty.
But back to my point, I think this Maemo-thing is just a big science experiment. Can we (=they =Nokia) produces something better if we start from scratch? They could also have called it Symbian X or Symbian NT.
But what if it fails? What if the Nx00 does not sell? Oh well, than they will try something else. (Maybe licence Android? Ok just kidding. There is also a better Symbian in the making.)

Ok I lost myself a bit in this...
What I wanted to say. I don't think that Nokia needs to sell the N900 to Otto or Joe or Mary. Not this time, not yet. Nokia keeps saying, that the N97 is the flagship and S60 the software they focus on. But it never hurts to have an extra jocker up your sleeves.

Last words:
if ((N900 sold to Joe) or (N900 sold to geek)) {
Nokia.happy++;
}

--Andy

Extra bonus question: Is the writer of this long nonsensical entry a geek or a Joe?

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Q: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?

A: He won't as long as he keeps valuing form over function (or until Maemo's form equals its functions).

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

I think by now it is clear that Nokia believes that there is sufficient market space for such devices as the N900.

Remember, it ain't just balding, greybeard *nix hacker geeks like me that are into these devices (that would be an unprofitable market)...there is a whole new breed of tech savvy late-teens/twentysomethings that are cool with linux distros like Ubuntu. They understand what this device and platform means, and they have mommy & daddy's wallet to raid at Christmas ;)

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

The hurdle for the N900 is slightly higher because Nokia blew so much goodwill on the N97.

Nokia had the balls to call it their Flagship when it was running 2year old hardware and a poorly designed UI. But it still sold millions because it was free on contract.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

(I swear some day I'll write a post that isn't novel-length...but today is not that day, alas).

I hate to piss in your cornflakes, but the odds are good that Maemo will never become Nokia's point of focus (assuming of course that they have to chose one technology to be the point of focus; they are a large company, and fully capable of multi-tasking).

Nokia sells a ridiculous amount of phones. In fact, Nokia sells so many phones that the numbers are barely imaginable (the figure I see for 2008 was around 1.24 Billion...yes that's billion with a "B").

A rather large number of these phones run Symbian S60.

I don't work for Nokia (childhood dream notwithstanding), so my take on their strategy is as uneducated as most everyone else's on here; but I can say with pretty good certainty that they are not planning to have Maemo be a replacement for Symbian.

That isn't to say that if Maemo becomes a runaway success that they won't re-evaluate that decision, but I have to imagine that they don't consider that likely.

And the funny thing is that no one from Nokia is arguing that. Nokia seems to be making it a point to present the Maemo devices as an alternative. They have a long-term strategy, and they are executing on that strategy. The N900 represents the current phase of that strategy.

If you are reticent to get involved with Maemo due to fear of Nokia abandoning it; I think that's an unfounded concern. By all accounts, they will sell more N900's then they did N810's, and as the company seems to have a conservative goal in mind (rightly so based on a multitude of factors) I think it's safe to take the plunge.

As to whether Android will "get further faster"; yeah, most likely. Android is a good value proposition for a lot of manufacturers, and after a slow start, is finally starting to roll out into more and more devices. I see no reason not to believe that there will be more Android phones than Maemo phones. For starters, there are already a lot of Android phones (even with the small number of devices currently shipping), and that number will grow exponentially.

But so what...The beauty of the mobile economy is that it's not zero-sum. Someone else doesn't have to lose for you to win. Maemo may never eclipse Android in the realm of number of devices sold, but that doesn't negate its utility for the people who have them.

This board seems to be filled with people who believe that you'd have to be a ***** to not see that the Maemo phone (which isn't even out yet, by the way) is better than phone X. Hopefully, none of those people are working for a phone manufacturer, as the fallacious belief that your market share would be better if only customers weren't stupid and understood that you are better is a sure-fire recipe for unemployment (but at least you'd have more free time to post on your blog about how superior your technical choices are).

I think the folks with some sense seem to understand that phones are not all things to all people. Ultimately, they represent a series of choices and compromises, which if undertaken properly, will allow you to buy and use a device which works for you.

There is much to like about Maemo as a phone platform. There is much to like specifically about the N900 as phone. There are also things not to like about both. Nokia, thankfully understands this. I would be horrified if I read that they were abandoning Symbian on their phones to replace it with Maemo. They could pretty much kiss their market share goodbye with such a decision. I don't see that happening though; which makes me sleep better at night.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

I think the use case is what matters and has to be explained to the users (via advertising of course).

Will just narate a short incident - yesterday I got locked out of my car with my car and house keys AND Cell phone (N95) IN the car. I couldn't call my wife who wasn't home or anybody. This was in front of my home in the parking space.

Luckily I could access the Wifi signals outside from my upstairs room and my trusty N810 (luckily it was in my shirt pocket) logged on nice and dandy.

So I used the N810 first to post a message to my friends and family on Facebook that I was locked out and if someone could help. My friend who saw it called my wife and got the AAA number (which I should have been carrying) and posted it to me.

I then used the N810's built in SIP call to call up AAA and request help ASAP - and that saved my day.

So I wrote this on the facebook thread and most of my friends who normally don't ever write to me - were agog with interest and wondered how I called out to AAA with my cell inside the car and I explained the tablet thingie to them and the built-in Skype and SIP calls. A lot of them were very impressed and actually showed interest in the Nokia tablet (and I conveniently mentioned the N900) after that.

So its these kinds of real use scenarios that get people excited - not just plain technological specs.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

I think the opposite - I think that mobile hardware is advancing in sophistication at such a rate that it is ludicrous to consider them as anything other than a mobile computing device, hence the need for a proper OS - Maemo and its ilk. Making a voice call is but one narrow application.

N900 and Maemo are the best glimpse of the future I've seen so far.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

http://i.zdnet.com/blogs/nelson-muntz.gif
<nelson muntz>
HA HA JUST LIKE A GIRL
</nelson muntz>

Seriously dude...that's a cool story. ;)

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

I am a n810 owner (and loving it) and i would agree, sadly, that the average joe is not going to appreciate th n900. I think their biggest let down is going to be the lack of quality entertaining apps and games. I know n900 has better hardware and more capable, but they will compaire it to the iphone. i want to do my part. downloaded sdk and am going to try and develop. im going to wait about a year for the price to go down and see the progression before i buy it. i got to admit though im no apple fanboy, they have the fun easy to use smartphone market cornered.

their apps have got to be easier to develop.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

I don't get it. Everybody here is talking about Maemo and N900 like some alien really-hard-to-use high tech mumbo jumbo. Yeah, it's different. But it's nothing more complicated than other OSes or devices. As for Symbian and Maemo. There is no replacement. It's just an evolution. Symbian can't follow the hardware anymore (it doesn't use it as much as it could) so Maemo will take the highest segment. Symbian will evolve into much graphically (yes, yes and other as well, i know) nicer environment (SF) and it will stick with the mid end devices - where it belongs now. I think that's the right choice.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

I'll have to disagree with you. Compared to the iPhone, Maemo is alot more free (as in you can modify almost anything) and tinker capable. It's hard to break an iPhone software wise. It's easier to do so Maemo wise. Not so sure about Android, Palm Pre, or Windows Mobile though.

And no the n900 won't be for Average Joes. They might understand why it's so special when they can see it does things other phones can't (e.g. compared to an iPhone which can't multi-task officially). But that's assuming if they even own an iPhone, most people here in the states own dumbphones (like I do now lol).

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

No.

Next.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Definitely one of most ignorant posts I've seen.

• My name's Jason
• I drink Miller Lite
• Greg House is a great character
• I'm a post-Bush American

....and I love my NIT.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

why should average joe be intrested in n900? isn't average joe = massmarkets?!? or am i missing something here.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

I can think of a few things but of course it works the other way round, too. ;)

Battery Life:
- N900: good
- iPhone: bad
- Android (G1): very bad (can only speak of G1 though)
- WinMo: used to be good on my old HTC

Multitasking:
- N900: very good (preemptive desktop-optimized Linux task scheduling)
- iPhone: not available without jailbreaking
- Android: awkward
- WinMo: terrible

Screen:
- N900: 800x480
- iPhone: low resolution
- Android: low resolution (800x480 devices announced)
- WinMo: low resolution usually

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Yes, Joe Average is the mass market. And unlike the N810, the mass market is going to be very aware of the N900. Every tech site is going to write about it, and they are going to write favorable stuff about it.

So Joe Average is going to catch on that the N900 is the new top walkie talkie from Nokia.

I know it's only "step 4" and yet Nokia seems to be advertising it somewhat. Never really saw any advertising for the 770 - N810.

There is a risk in too many people thinking of the N900 as Nokias next best thing and at the same time know it's not for them, knowing that nobody buys it, thinking of it as a flop. You know, like the tablet PCs. Lovely machines, an improvement on laptops. But it flopped terribly (machines were too expensive because of higher windows licensing costs) and now "tablet" is a negatively associated word. Even those who still sell Windows Vista tablets now avoid the word. Now they are "touch sensitive convertible laptops" instead.

In business, the image of being a flop is supr bad. The N810 avoided it by clearly being a niche product and underadvertised.

Do you guys think our friend Joe will think of the N900 as a niche product, or might he consider it yet another failed attempt at being an Ipod killer?

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Even if you add the good camera to that list, it's not very impressive (not to mention that Android's battery and multitasking is just fine now, but that's besides the point). Seriously, is that all we got? The other list with "what it doesn't do", MMS, Gps directions, Spotify etc. unfortunately sounds quite a bit more impressive - in fact, SAD. Nokia doesn't even support it's own cra...I mean, GREAT services (comes with music, ovi maps & directions) on this phone. And nobody else (yet at least) supports their services on it.

Why should Joe Average care about this phone? It's not for him. If we step back from the Maemo platform love for a moment and look at it objectively, is this phone really that good for anybody except the "Maemo crowd"? It's a phone now, so it's fair game to compare it to these iPhones and Androids, and currently, the N900 is not even close to being as useful for Joe Averages as those phones. Nice resolution and camera, that's about it, plenty of missing applications. Sad but true. It might be "special" among smarphones but not in the meaning of "special" the thread creator intended.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Hello,

I really think N900 could appeal both to tech enthusiasts and the members of the mass market!

Branded and marketed the right way, I see no reason why N900 should not attract those who are able to afford a high end smartphone..

One issue I realized the other day when I posted the promo video of N900 on my facebook profile was that a female friend of mine percieved it to be a man's device...not appealing to average female liking...maybe that perception could be chenged by advertisements..

And the most important thing...

Nokia has to make sure that N900 comes with the best Msn messenger application, the best facebook application, the best skype application, the best twitter application...

N900 should be the device that offers the best online communication. While doing this, these apps sholud look really impressive. This is how you make mass market go wow..

I believe, if taken seriously by nokia, N900 can be a real success for the mass market as well...juzt make sure that;

-N900 has the best browser experience
-N900 is the best device to use your;
-MSN Messenger
-Facebook
-Skype
-Twitter
-Any other trendy means of staying in touch with those who are special to us...

And, they should have great graphics, unrivalled stability and functions that are hard to duplicate...

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

i gave second thought to this. why should average joe understand how special n900 is?

if usability is good and software covers all the needs for average joeses (notice plural, how do you say that?!?), what else do they concider when buying a smartphone?

besides being free, device should be at same level with usability & software as market leaders or bit above. else there is no bright future.

i think n900 offers pretty much to average joe who wants to take photos, surf internet, hang in msn, send sms and make calls.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Lol, Maemo, for spechul peepel.

No, I still think it is special, for being a customizeable mobile computer where the Iphone and Android phones still have too many limitations. For those of us that write jokes in pseudocode - one of you should feel guilty now - the Maemo phone, this exact model, HAS more potential than the Iphone and by my judgement, also the semi-closed Android platform. For Joe, who might think it's cool to pay cash for an image of a red jewel, the Iphone has a lot more entertaining applications. And no wonder, the Maemo 5 platform is so new, only a handful at Maemo.org can even test it out yet.

Android have a lot of potential for developers, but Maemo has more. For users, Android, Iphones, WinMo are clearly more mature, with quantitatively broader software and hardware alternatives, and more internet resources. Yet, for a small community here, we do have a lot of good software already. We might get a long way if the community/resources grow. Either way, Maemo is moving the market towards more complete mobile computers.

I agree that this platform is not ready for Joe Average as it is today, but it CAN BE. Look at what HTC has done for Windows Mobile over the last two-three years. The OS hasn't changed a bit but regular people can use it now. I think Nokia have benefit from this shift in GUI design, and they have an easier job making the GUI appeal to Joe than they have with old, sturdy Symbian. As far as I can tell from the videos, the GUI is indeed appealing now. I think with a year of feedback from non-TMO users, it might very well be a good phone OS for Joe A. Nokia need to get some software right that wasn't right on the N810, but they have enough routine to know that.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

This is already one of Maemo 4's strengths. I even use the N810 for chatting when I am at my computers, sometimes. It is way better at communication than what my Windows Mobile 6 phone. And way better browsing, too. I honestly believe it has the best mobile browsers. Plurum. Of course, not everything come preinstalled on the N810.

Also, the video part of IM is still quite lacking on Maemo (4).

It won't have unrivalled stability. Dumbphones have unrivalled stability. The simpler, the better stability. Complex systems are complex.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

I am guessing you are referring to this norwegian article ? And if you are, this is _not_ a place for IT-professionals. At least not the comments-section. All the articles here containing the topics, apple, microsoft, ps3 or xbox turns into fanboy-flamewars, and i would guess that the average age of the commenters is 14.

Personally I cant see any reason why n900 and Maemo wouldnt fit anyone who wants a smart-phone?

On the other hand it doesnt mean my mom could fully appreciate it, but why would I want my mom to use this? What I want is fellow medium+ techies to use it, because these are the ones that contribute to the community. I see this as a major advantage for the maemo platform. Dont worry so much about it not becoming mainstream guys...