Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

No motorola for me, build quality is not good. And also verizon cdma? No thanks

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

I agree with your sentiment and comment about Droid having more features, although the necessity of the extra features is debatable.

I think though, that looking at the botched mess that's been the N900 launch, and indifference from T-mobile towards the N900 (not to mention their dribbling out details of "Project Dark"), I have cause to consider these two phone & carrier combinations to be in direct competition with each other.

We have two phones that aren't yet generally available. Nokia, on one hand, playing _down_ their product as something that is a precursor to the real thing, and Motorola on the other hand, fighting for survival and delivering a smaller time between rumor and actual product shots. T-Mobile, likely to have cheaper data plans, and Verizon with wider network coverage. Then we have the features on the phone themselves, with Moto throwing the kitchen sink into it, and Nokia making some weird choices.

Since the N900 saw daylight, the Droid is the first comparable device to come along.

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

While not directed at me, I'll throw in my 2 cents on the question:

A debian-derived userspace such as Maemo allows you to compile, install, and run existing opensource programs of all types beyond what is available in the app repository (app store, Ovi store, or whatever you want to call it). If we wanted "just a phone"..there are certainly much cheaper alternatives available. Android, on the other hand, is much more restricted since it comes with a new API with which all of its software must be developed against...so there is a much smaller existing library of apps available in addition to far less flexibility for the user to get into the "guts" of the machine should he so choose. I'm not an Android expert by any means, but I'll take my root shell on Maemo any day for doing "serious" stuff ;)

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

One good thing about the droid is it FORCES Nokia to up the hardware to stay in competition.

On a hardware level, the next version will have to have the following just to stay on even level

- xenon flash. For some reason Nokia have been ignoring user requests for this
- slimmer, if the droid keyboard is any good then there's no excuse for the thickness
- if the droid's battery last longer then n900 then they should use the 1500 mah battery as they should have in the first place
- capacitive screen. Sorry this is what the MAJORITY of 'main-stream' non-Asian-Countries consumers want.
- wonder how heavy the droid is?

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

Thanks for this question. It helped me clarify my own quirky interests in the Nokia N900. IMO, you're not missing anything in a phone "as such" in Android. In fact, the phone/mobile functionality in Android is no doubt better than the N900 (barcode scans, voice dialiing, integration with google voice, phone-related apps, etc.).

My own interest in the Nokia N900 is less as a phone than as a pocket computer. So I think some of these debates --- Android vs. Maemo --- come down to whether one is primarily interested in a phone or a pocketable version of a Linux/Unix desktop. And perhaps if you're not a *nix-head, then Android phones will seem every bit as capable as pocket computers, especially with good Google docs integration. Alas, I happen to be a *nix-head.

As far as I can tell, Google didn't want to create a typical *nix/POSIX userspace because they want very tight integration with their own services. Hence, Android (and the forthcoming Chrome OS) assume that you're not going to want to install a lot of funky local apps, but rather use your phone to access gmail, google talk, and Google docs. Like the iPhone, Android is based on the premise that mobile apps are an entirely different species than desktop apps. Which arguably makes the Android a better smartphone for people who want that. It also makes Android more mainstrem, since the combination of thin client + cloud services Google provides are meant to compete directly with Microsoft's offerings. But all that makes Android less open as a mobile "computing device."

A locked-down environment also helps Google protect the closed parts of the system (e.g., the Google-specific apps), as was evident in the recent legal actions taken against CyogenMod.

I'm sure someone will be happy to correct me if I'm wrong on any of this. :)

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

Off course, it is easier and faster to develop a device when you are not building its OS fully on your own...

In a way, I think Android is going to become, in the mobile world, the equivalent of what Windows is in the PC world. The OS manufacturers slaps on to sell their hardware and use the "we are more open than Apple" card. In that perspective, Maemo would be like Ubuntu.

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

I am sure that the Droid is and will be a better phone for most users. I wish that Nokia had Googles development resources but that is unrealistic. Verizon wireless is the only 3G carrier where I live and would provide 10X the data speed. I have tested the Verizon network at over a megabit while AT&T provides 105 kilobits and T-Mobile has spotty coverage with edge at best.

Saying that I plan to continue my N900 order. For me as a Linux developer / database administrator / forensics guy the N900 will allow me to compile and actually run the apps I use on the N900 while the iPhone, Android, and my current E90 allow me to log into a server and run terminal apps remotely. I feel the Droid is a much better phone but the N900 is a much better Linux box.

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

I'll give you a big Amen, mrojas! This is an unworthy comparison on many levels. Hardware is just that, but software dictates how you use it. So the argument isn't about the phones, but the OSes. I wrote this response to a similar question in another thread:
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=351390&postcount=8

Now I know not everyone is as well versed in the intricacies of mobile OSes, but take this info and share it, so we can end all of these worthless comparisons. The N900 is precedent setting in the smartphone space, and that's the biggest thing about all of this.

The Droid is an excellent phone, and will chew holes in the Apple growth machine by itself, as well as put greater exposure on Android OS. This is what no one has been willing to do, expose Apple via marketing, until now. Droid will sell extremely well if priced in the $199 after subsidy price point, and I promise Nokia will be extremely happy. Once the iPhone is in less demand, and Android is already ubiquitous, carriers will look for a competitive alternative. Symbian, Maemo, and WinMo stand to benefit, and should in the next 3 quarters.

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

Have to side with my boy Franklinn on this one. Finally a Android phone not running on an ARM11.

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

Yeah, I am stating Android is a different beast, because I didn't know Android was Linux based, I thought it was Google derived.

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

Regardless of the OS I can never bring myself to buy another Motorola phone. Used to be a big fan of their stuff but after the last two I had were unmitigated POS I just cant trust em again.

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

At a guess, the majority of N900's would be those looking for an iphone alternative but with keyboard an no at&t.

With a much smaller percentage buying because its 'open source'

I feel the droid may steal quite many potential customers away from the n900 when they see:
- its slimmer
- larger screen
-xenon flash. Real camera replacement for low-light shots
-slightly lighter?
-is 'somehow' affiliated with google. Ovi Maps doesn't even come close to google maps in USA.
-developers can use Android NDK to write c/C++ apps now, so casual developers have an excuse to buy it too.

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

It more or less is. It only resembles Linux at the lower platform levels. It doesn't run X and it doesn't support the usual Linux toolkits. Although it's using the Linux kernel, the userspace is mostly Google-derived.

This, of course, is unlike Maemo which uses X and standard Linux desktop toolkits resulting in reasonably straightforward porting of your favorite Linux applications. Android is a mobile phone platform that's pretending to be a mobile computer platform, Maemo is actually is a mobile computer platform. ;)

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

Android NDK is nowhere near fully baked still has to be called via a Java frontend etc. Limited access to the hardware.

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

finished it for ya ;)

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

Moto is from Texas, and they make great phone hardware. But this "Android is Linux based" argument is just like saying corn syrup is corn based. Well so is ethanol 85, but it won't make your Dr. Pepper taste any better. If Android was so wise to use Linux for its underpinnings, and then tout it as a plus, then the N900 being a full Debian Linux OS should be an advantageous selling point.

Like me saying my Camaro has a Corvette ZR1 engine, whereas a Corvette IS a Corvette! The rest of the Camaro is inferior, and so is the rest of Android. They took the easy way out, and Nokia did it right, and successfully. The LiMo coalition should join Maemo, as well as the OHA, since Nokia has done what they've intended, and in Spades! I'm impressed, and that's not easy to do.

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

I have a Q for you! Why oh why does it seem that all Android slider phones have a extra bit at the bottom? Why are the two parts (screen and keyboard) never the same size? Like the N900, both parts have the same footprint. It just looks 'neater'. Even the non slide one has a big lump on the bottom! WHY!

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

I'm afraid they've been having a java tumor that is growing and there is nothing we can do about it. :-(
hehe ;-)

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

I'm a little sad and torn.

I slowly fell in love with the N900 over the last 2 months, but I must confess that the Droid is probably better for me. My reasons are as follows:

-I'm not a developer.

-I'm a current Verizon customer (Who knew they'd finally release a decent phone?).

-Verizon has a FAR superior 3g footprint compared to T-mobile in my area.

-I have never bought into the "mobile computer" description. It's a phone to me.

-I'm in the capacitive-screens-are-better camp. (No, the ability to use a stylus and interact with the screen wearing oven-mits is not compelling to me.)

-Portrait/one handed interaction matters to me.

-Android is 'open enough' for me.

-Xenon flash. (EDIT: This is untrue. Dual LED also.)

-It's not nearly as bulky, though neither devices are beautiful IMO. (EDIT: It is gaudy though. Licorice and "brown sugar". Ugh.)

-Not as much storage as N900, but internal 16gb + 16gb microSDHC is enough for me. (EDIT: Only comes with a 16 microSD card and zero internal memory. 32GB microSD cards do not exist yet.)

-It's still not an iPhone.

I'm probably going to cancel my pre-order for the N900. :( I haven't ruled out getting it just yet, but I want to see how the next few weeks will play out.

That said, as a huge Linux enthusiast for nearly a decade, I look forward to seeing where Maemo 5/6 goes.

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

Aye. I'm the same. An AIX/*nix head, on top of a few other things. But as it stands, having a terminal on a phone makes no sense.

Having it on a pocketable computer... does make sense.

But the terminal as it stands - I'm basing this solely on my N810 - it's great to have, but I'm rarely in terminal.

Google was against having their apps redistributed in a binary altered build as the Cyanogen Mod due to licensing. Once the Google Apps were removed, Cyanogen Mod has since resumed being available [ read here ]

Thanks for your answer.

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

I'd wait until release until release until I decided that. This is Verizon after all. :)

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

I feel the same, I would go with the droid, but I already switched over to T-mobile, and sold the free Touch Pro 2 I got from wmdeals... so I'm pretty much stuck with this contract... droid seems pretty stacked me to

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

I 100% agree that Maemo should be considered a normal Linux distro, and Android should be regarded with suspicion, but that said...


I just tried to compile Audacity in the SDK. After compiling wxwidgets (--with-hildon) it sort of worked, but File/Open crashed it and the menus were sometimes empty.

Now, I know wxwidgets --with-hildon is from 2007 and doesn't target Maemo 5, but this is still annoying. I fully understand it's not finger friendly, but not working properly is another matter. I'm interested in knowing what the solution for these problems is. Is it:

a) The WM needs to be improved to remove bugs for desktop apps.

b) Toolkits like wxwidgets need to be updated.

c) Apps need to use Qt, Hildon on GTK, Qt, or be CLI.

d) Desktop apps are meant to be run through Easy Debian.

Unfortunately, even though I can program, I'm not competent enough to port Audacity. But it would be nice to know just how close to Debian Maemo really is.

This is not to say I don't believe in the platform. I'm definitely getting an N900. It would just be nicer if the window manager behaved better with desktop apps. I think d is a good solution too.

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

:eek:

That is all I need to know to tell you that the N900 is not for you. What are you still doing here? Hurry up and go cancel your N900 order A.S.A.P. please. If you want to come and socialize latter that is another story, but don't waste your money on this computer masquerading as a phone and go get yourself a cheaper, more phone focused, device. Congratulations on finding out before it was too late. ;)

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

Yeah, I was thinking how if you are expecting a phone, this could really turn out bad... just the lack of call and end buttons could be enough to turn some people sour to the device

Edit: OK maybe not because of the iphone , but definitely lack of portrait mode

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

There is that too.

Personally, there are always going to be "better" tech over the horizon. This is particularly true for the SmartPhone market, which it seems every few months a new phone comes out to trump what came out previously.

At some point, you need to just pick a target and go with it. Enjoy your purchase. This is particularly true when there is fool's gold out there. Who knows if Droid will be everything people want it to be? Certainly Android hasn't quite lived up to the hype as of yet.

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

I'll ignore the snarky tone and condescension.

The N900 is very much for me. I just don't think the mobile computer description is very apt. It's much more a smart phone to me.

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

Conjecture:
Maemo's efficiency will lead to a more fluid and more battery-conservative user experience than the Android solution of Droid..

Whether that's true is still unknown to me. I would be very interested to see benchmarks (both of power consumption/battery life a processing power) of the two devices side-by-side, but i suspect that won't happen until they are both out and about in the consumer market.

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

I am sorry my comment sounded condescending to you. I was being dead serious. Maybe I misunderstood what you meant. It is just that to me, the greatest feature of the N900 is the development freedom that it offers. It has revived in me the desire to do desktop (as opposed to web) development. And I know that I will be joined by dozens of computer geeks in creating code for this device. I am also very interested in being able to view and edit my word processor documents and my spreadsheets anywhere and at any time. I want access to sqlite to make some small database applications to organize some info that I want to have with me at all times. That is why I am buying this device. I would buy it even if it did not have a phone. And I don't care what features Motorola, Apple, HTC, etc put on their device. As long as they don't allow me to create a quick Phython app while I am on the subway, or allow my fellow geeks to do as they please with the OS and create and distribute whatever app they want, I am just plain not interested. *That* is what makes the N900 special, not the other specs. All the other specs can and will be outdone by other devices in no time. But, the that geek freedom feature is going to be hard to beat. If those other features are what you are after, I'd say look elsewhere. Seriously.

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

Well, precisely. And in the case of the N900, there's no phone, no carrier announcement, and in fact, statements from the manufacturer saying it's essentially a beta product. It appears that on 10/30, VZW will roll out the Moto with fully supported status. When will the N900 roll out?

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

Congratulations on an entire content-free posting dedicated to ridiculing someone who actually has a valid argument.

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

I guarantee you are not the only one doing this.

The timing is critical, and a short delay for the N900 could have a big impact on its future.

Even if the Droid is not a better device than the N900, if Verizon does very high profile marketing, they could take away a huge percentage of the early adopters who would have gone with the N900.

Thinking back on the talk about T-Mobile's "game changer", siphoning off key early adopters is a real game changer, IMO. The Droid could do this. Once those key people have been diverted from the N900, it can be hard to recover...

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

umm as of now i don't see anything compelling about this droid hype . At the end of the day all the apps on the market for android is geared towards the G1 and mytouch so the droid is in the same boat as the N900 when it comes to no released "wow apps" even if i had the chance to get the droid i wouldn't.

Also verizon will never take away from N900 crowd. 1 verizon is only US based. 2 verizon is expensive .

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

The n900 may be good for geeks, but Nokia have to create a product and be able to market it to mainstream.

At the end of the day, Nokia needs to make $$$. There are not enough hardcore LINUX/developer geeks that Nokia can profit much (especially with the competiton droid,HD2,iphone). This is not good for Maemo as Nokia would eventually pull the plug and try something more mainstream to sell.

Nokia did not create the n900 out of the goodness of their hearts just for geeks. They need to sell more so the platform can take off and eventually profit.

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

It's an interesting point you make about the apps being geared to the G1/Mytouch. Do you mean because they all have half the screen resolution? That's a fair point if they aren't compatible with the Droid...

Yet another reason for me to wait a few weeks to make a decision.

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

Ha, motorola still exits? I remember my V3 years ago....my last motorola phone.

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

Apple are really killing Nokia 7.4 million iPhone's sold in a quarter and that's with all the restrictions and limitations. Puts the sales of the Camera lens scratcher n97 in the shade. So iPhone has been out since 07 yet no response from the phone giant. Jus found that my n900 pre order is now due in November and tentative at that. What a lousy outfit the once great Nokia has become. Even motorola is showing signs of life - the dext was announced after n900 yet its already in the shops. What in the world happened to Nokia? What has become of it ?.

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

I can't stand the tone sometimes, either, but to be honest, he may be right on target this time. The fact you don't see the N900 as a mobile pocketable computer is glaring. Have you ever used Linux on a desktop, preferably Ubuntu or Mint? If you had, that perception would change. This is no smartphone. I'm considered a smartphone expert by many all over the world, and smartphones are my specialty and the center of my life, so please trust and believe me.

Android is a smartphone OS. Maemo is a desktop OS in its 4th or 5th version, and only now gracing smartphones. It could easily power a laptop with a touchscreen, with no loss in performance from your typical desktop. You may need a primer in Linux, as I got thanks to the guys here, and then you'll get it.

The N900 lets you leave the laptop in the car most of the time. Simple as that. You may love the N900, but your perception and expectations aren't fitting the N900's capabilities. Its possible to buy too much device, and you sound like a candidate.

@ bugelrex,
The Maemo OS doesn't need mainstream success. Nokia has positioned Maemo as a premium OS, with Symbian as the mainstream, and they expect the N97 and N97 Mini to outsell the N900, along with other models.

Maemo is the proving grounds for Symbian^4+ apps by way of Qt. Nokia already makes mounds of cash, and doesn't need Maemo to do so. They have services for that, since device sales will continue to slow across the board. It may create a new genre for them to lead, but no one else is in this space, so whatever marketshare Maemo gets is 100% of its market. I see Maemo and Symbian as a single solution, with one complimenting the other. Maemo was brought closer to the smartphone market to spur developers, and Linux developers outnumber iPhone and Android devs all day long. And the apps from future Maemo devices will keep Symbian's ecosystem at or near the leading position, and Nokia will surely maintain the lion's share of the smart device market when combining their two OSes.

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

Not only that Nobody really knew about droid until recently everything else was rumor. Also i cannot see anyone utilizing the droid specs yet until everyone (especially devs) have those type of phone to use . Also because droid is cdma don't see it being unlocked and because GSM dominates the world not many developers developing for its specs. Just my humble opinion.

It doesn't have flash in the browser. It doesn't support hardware level developing. It doesn't support tv-out as i know of. It's only for verizon. It has a high screen and android 2.0 which will break a lot of apps that are only 1.6 unless google release a ota update for eclair etc etc

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)
 

Android is Linux like TIVO is Linux. Or what's that other Linux that runs on phones? LinMo? In pure terminology, yes those devices are Linux because they use a Linux kernel. In praticallity and most people terms, if your expecting an open platform when you hear the word Linux then Android, Tivo, and Linmo are far far from it.

Edit: And I thought Droid was just Sholes renamed?