Re: Poll: Is Google evil? (what do YOU think)
 

Thanks! :)

Re: Poll: Is Google evil? (what do YOU think)
 

If Google would be a person it would be considered evil!

Collecting that much userdata and telling "I'm not using it but I like to collect them!" is not much good in a BigBrother world. The most user doesnt care but I do! ICQ has written in its policy that everything you send then belongs to ICQ, did not see this at google's yet but it is a US company seeking for money and I didnt see any GOOD US company seeking for money yet. I still wait to find my emails by google search some day like "ooops we opened all mailboxes and all your friend-lists to the public... 'by accident'.
and for apple on this way: If I had bought an iPOD I would have used it to build a chemical weapon or at least some kind of huge rocket!
thats part of their policy...

Re: Poll: Is Google evil? (what do YOU think)
 

Wow... so many "Google provides free blabla, so it can't be evil" post. Never read something like this before.

Makes me think of Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach, who said: " Happy slaves are the grimmest enemies of freedom." (If 'grimmest' is an English word... I hate to translate such things using dict.leo.org ;) ...)

Re: Poll: Is Google evil? (what do YOU think)
 

Good quote.

When a company starts dictating to the likes of Europe just how long it will keep data then it has clearly putting it's own objectives over the will of the people. That's "evil". Underhanded techniques to capture user data is "evil". Not giving you the right easily view and edit data held about you is "evil".

The fact that we are even discussing it here, as many others are doing elsewhere, shows there is growing doubt about Google's intentions. The most evil element in all of this would be not debating the issue openly and if governments around the world don't act sooner rather than later to ensure Google acts within the law and/or create laws to force Google to act in a socially responsible manner. IOW's you and I are the evil ones unless we actively participate in ensuring Google does not become the Big Brother company of the future or even the little-brother hiding behind the scenes.

Re: Poll: Is Google evil? (what do YOU think)
 

Google is an advertising company which you can avoid if you wish.

My local grocery offers discounts to those who use an identification card. The card is free but if I use it to get the discounts it does allow them to capture my purchases. Is it evil? I would argue no. Like any buying decision, it is my choice. I can pay extra for privacy or give up privacy for the discounts.

With Google, I can avoid them for privacy or give up privacy for convenience. It's still my choice.

Maemo.org knows every time I log in, what forums I visit, which threads I read and which I respond to, and it can tie it all to my email account. Is this evil as well?

Re: Poll: Is Google evil? (what do YOU think)
 

You need a lot of technical knowledge to do this.
You would first need to be aware of Google Analytics (which most people aren't), then know how to block it.

Then you'd have to realize how Google Ads on various web pages you visit work. That they're not just something that is "broadcast" to you like a TV commercial or a print ad. (That's what the average internet user thinks.)

Then you'd have to know that Google keeps information even about the searches you perform. (Again, we know, but most people have never heard the term 'cookie' or know what it is.)

Not knowing what all this is, that it even exists, how could you make a decision to avoid it? (And we haven't even started talking about Google storing and indexing your personal mails, chats, documents,... to add them to the above mix.)

Re: Poll: Is Google evil? (what do YOU think)
 

The anarchy of the internet will rule again one day. We, the users, will only put up with sh*t for so long, and then we'll program around the steaming pile. Only policy can keep us from doing this, not technology. If you want to talk details, I'll be here.

Re: Poll: Is Google evil? (what do YOU think)
 

If you're concerned about it, I would guess you already know much of that. If you aren't concerned about it (which is the majority of the surfers) then you don't care.

For myself, I use Firefox with AdBlock Plus for the ads, NoScript to block Analytics (and other trackers), and BetterPrivacy for LSOs (Local Shared Objects, also known as Flash cookies). OTOH, I do use Google's search and Yahoo's mail plus I allow cookies for a session. Life is a trade-off.

Re: Poll: Is Google evil? (what do YOU think)
 

oh. so because people don't know their data is being collected it isn't evil - because they don't care, anyway. ;)

Re: Poll: Is Google evil? (what do YOU think)
 

I see what you did there.

Only because it's what I was about to do. :p

Re: Poll: Is Google evil? (what do YOU think)
 

If you go to www.google.com, there are only 16 links. One of them is Privacy. If you click on it, you will see policies, explanations, and even freaking videos. If you don't care then it's not evil.

If the N900 actually ships in the next couple of weeks and I decide to get one, is Nokia evil because they sell it for more than Amazon and their site doesn't say that I could get it cheaper at Amazon? If people don't care that they're paying more then it's not evil.

Re: Poll: Is Google evil? (what do YOU think)
 

You wouldn't... Or would you? I'm sooo disappointed! - You're evil! :D

(No, actually you're not, because I don't care.)

Re: Poll: Is Google evil? (what do YOU think)
 

Geez. I was hoping for Elizabeth Hurley and I get that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bedazzled.jpg

Re: Poll: Is Google evil? (what do YOU think)
 

Each time you pay cash at the shop, the friendly lady hands you counterfeit money for change because she doesn't like your face.
You could have checked, there are several ways to do so.

But you don't care.

Therefore, it's not evil.

Cool.

You know, sometimes we define something as evil even if the individual who is affected wouldn't even notice or maybe doesn't consider it evil. We do so because we think it harms our whole society, our moral standards or maybe only has potential to do harm in the future.

Re: Poll: Is Google evil? (what do YOU think)
 

What kind of anarchy are you referring to? TCP/IP? Usenet? Phreaking? The subversiveness of Internet Exploder? The increasing government meddling with technology? TOR exit nodes being monitored by BKA? Seriously, Mielke dreamed of the data mining Google performs, and even dictators and psychopaths are democratically elected. After 2 nukes humanity did not learn. Things first have to go very wrong (again) before humanity may learn.

Re: Poll: Is Google evil? (what do YOU think)
 

The University I went to had an honor code: you could not lie, cheat, or steal. The friendly lady violates this, Google does not.

Do you maintain a contact list for your email account and phone? Did you ask the people on it if you could put them on it? Did you inform the people on it that they are on it? Are you evil?

Re: Poll: Is Google evil? (what do YOU think)
 

you can't be sure of that anymore. and even if you could, consider this:

google has already accumulated cosmic amounts of data about each and every one of his users. that's a huge DB with personal data, trends, conversations, intimate knowledge, insider knowledge, and the possibility to extrapolate things for market researches, product placement, but also demographic issues and tons of other stuff.

now, google, as big and powerful as they already are, WILL one day start lobbying YOUR government for legal use and distribution of this data, and one day get that law passed, reducing privacy to zero. (you're 90% there already btw)

it's not about single pieces of information, or me (an individual) spying on you (an individual).
it's about a company that'll probably survive it's founders, with other people taking over who might not be so keen on a goody-goody image. but then google already will hold so freaking much information it's basically up to their goodwill not to abuse it. and i am not comfortable with that, because at some point, someone WILL want to abuse it. it's human nature, greed is part of it.
not to mention one or several google employees could go astray...


seriously, i am time and time again shocked how little people care about these things. they say they haven't done anything wrong or got nothing to hide... well, they're wrong!

take this simplest of all examples: you get a serious disease some day. it might be lethal or not, rare or not, doesn't matter.
you google about it, write gmails to your friends about it. now, google has that information. and they don't delete it. they mine such data.
now imagine, what a huuuge set of mined data like this would be worth to big employers. they could filter out candidates unbelievably easy, even if your disease wasn't serious, you're not even being considered for the job, and you never know what happened.

even if stuff like this doesn't happen right now (examples from asia show google is not too far from it), it WILL happen in the not-so-far future if we aren't careful.

Re: Poll: Is Google evil? (what do YOU think)
 

The "I'll send your bits if you send mine" kind.

Re: Poll: Is Google evil? (what do YOU think)
 

You've put your finger on the privacy I'm worried about. Insurance companies not only know you're interested in a disease, they know the actual diseases you have been diagnosed with, what treatments you are undergoing, what drugs you are taking and what drugs you have taken in the past, not to mention all your personal and financial information. I worry far more about that than I do about Google.

Re: Poll: Is Google evil? (what do YOU think)
 

you should not only be worried, you should actively be doing something against it!

in my country, we're not quite there yet. my insurance company knows nothing about my medical history apart from what i tell them.

Re: Poll: Is Google evil? (what do YOU think)
 

I actively avoid doctors and self medicate. I recommend alcohol for tension and nicotine for depression. Scotch or port and cigars to be specific.

Re: Poll: Is Google evil? (what do YOU think)
 

Have you guys read this book?
http://www.googlefalle.com/

I am sure you'd like it.

Re: Poll: Is Google evil? (what do YOU think)
 

Good news. You can now worry about both at the same time.

http://www.google.com/health

Re: Poll: Is Google evil? (what do YOU think)
 

go google!!! nobody can beat the google apps...