Re: why doesn't maemo get traction in the market
 

Because Maemo 4.x is not user-friendly enough and is not a 'smartphone' OS whereas Maemo 5.0 has not shipped on Nokia N900 yet. Once a product is out in the wild the traction will start.

Rome wasn't build in one day. When Android was still being designed it didn't gather that much traction either. If you look at it from this point of view, and see the media coverage N900/Maemo 5 already received, I'd say things are rather looking good.

Especially when Nokia fixes issues reported by community. I assume here the fixes concern important issues. The initial out of the box experience is very important. Especially with a new product which is 'very different'. For example, iPhone 3G coverage was initially bad, and N97 camera problems also existed

Re: why doesn't maemo get traction in the market
 

Yes I should have made a priority.

Most important: Get the bored symbians.
important. Try to appeal to the dissappointed Androidees/IPhonees.
Third: Try to get the ones that cannot afford an Iphone or Android, by a cheaper meamo device. Nokia might be in the uncomfortably position to regain marketshares by the price!

Re: why doesn't maemo get traction in the market
 

Id hope to see it like iron and carbon, if we mix them well then we will have steel.

Re: why doesn't maemo get traction in the market
 

Maemo could probably run on cheaper hardware than Android, but they'd have to remove the new task switcher. I don't think that's going to happen.

Which is why Nokia has Qt and Symbian.

Re: why doesn't maemo get traction in the market
 

What I would *really* love is a timed release architecture where you can pay for binary games with DRM, but Nokia is given the source and can release them under the GPL after something like two or three years.

With any luck, it would provide enough incentive for publishers without being unethical towards the users.


Edit: even in this case, though, the DRM may not prevent me from doing ANYTHING else on the system or it would be unacceptable. We all know it's going to be cracked anyway, so it doesn't need to be perfect.

Re: why doesn't maemo get traction in the market
 

Part of the problem is that as recently as August Nokia was still saying that Symbian was the OS that would kill the iPhone (see below for one example). Maemo, up until the N900 announcement, was seen as a minor niche market and that perception does not seem to have changed much.

http://www.zdnetasia.com/news/commun...?scid=rss_z_nw

For a commercial developer, the question is how many people could buy your product and, at the moment, that number is in the millions for the iPhone and in the hundreds for the N900. If it is a roaring success, this equation will change but, for now, most seem to be waiting to see what happens.

For an individual developer, often the first question is "how will this software help me accomplish a task that I want to do?" Again, the fact that developers can buy an iPhone or Android phone to run their software influences many decisions.

Right now, today, if you are developing for a Nokia OS, Symbian is a far more attractive market. If you are developing for a Linux based OS the answer would be Android. If you are developing for a market leader it would be the iPhone.

If the N900 ships a million units, then developers will be drawn in. If it is a flop in the marketplace, all the people who will develop for it may already be reading this thread.

Re: why doesn't maemo get traction in the market
 

Hold it right there. This is what I was talking about. You view applications like products like you potentially did with Symbian and the iPhone. Well, for better or worse, things don't work that way in Fremantle (yet).

Right now, today, you're best off learning Qt and thus uniting Maemo and Symbian codebases. And for all intents and purposes, Android is not Linux.

Re: why doesn't maemo get traction in the market
 

I think that what others have said about why Maemo still hasn't gotten traction in the market is correct. Maemo has been brewing mostly under the radar. Nokia has been carefully nurturing it without much fanfare, but making sure it grows into a formidable alternative. The N900 is going to bring Maemo to the attention of the masses, but Nokia still doesn't see it ready to take on the world and really start pushing it. That is why it is called the "4th step".

But, I think the more interesting question, and it has been asked in this thread already is what is the strategy for making Maemo take hold and thrive?

Well, first of all, as Mr Ballmer well knows, attracting developers is crucial. Fortunately, Maemo has very attractive qualities to a developer. Nokia needs to nurture this very important aspect of Maemo. I know they are very focused on this and that is good, because it is a high priority. But, there is a lot of work to do there.

Some things that can be done to encourage developers is to ensure that they have the best developer tools and libraries available. (For example, I couldn't believe that the scratchbox is running such an old version of Python, and while having 2.5.2 on the device is nice, a newer version of Python is needed since the current version's code is not backwards compatible.) Ruby should be there, and yes even Dalvik.

The coming Nokia store could be another great way to encourage develoeprs. Pride was mentioned by someone here as a motivator, and I think there is a lot to that. It would be nice to know which applications are the most popular on the market, for example. There should be a way for users to give a rating to each application and provide comments and reviews. Since this applications enrich Nokia's products, Nokia should reward, monetarily, applications that do well in each of the different categories.

Nokia should realize that Symbian is not its future and be willing to put all its force behind Maemo. And that is an important factor, because like it or not, Maemo and Nokia are one. We could well call Maemo Nokia's OS. That is because Nokia doesn't seem interested in licensing Maemo to other manufacturers. And this is understandable since Nokia's business is to sell Nokia devices. So, Maemo is restricted to the devices that Nokia decides to manufacture. However, that doesn't necessarily restrict Maemo's applications to run only on Nokia devices, since they are built with standard and open libraries. But still.

Fortunately, Nokia is a powerhouse that can create top of the line devices like the N900. But, will Nokia be able to out compete the rest of the market by outgunning them in the hardware side for ever? Eventually, the software and social aspects are going to be the differentiators.

Any way, just some thoughts for now.

Re: why doesn't maemo get traction in the market
 

Actually UCSB has began to use Maemo to teach mobile programming (unlike most other schools use iPhone), which is encouraging.

Re: why doesn't maemo get traction in the market
 

Welcome to Maemo ! :D

Re: why doesn't maemo get traction in the market
 

Yes, that is nice. It would be cool to be able to see some of that data integrated to the application manager and a way to access the application's Maemo website from there.

Re: why doesn't maemo get traction in the market
 

Of course they do. That's why Nokia has an app store. Applications are products. Most people who buy the N900 are buying a product to do certain jobs. If the jobs require additional applications they buy (or acquire, if they're free) those that they need. The end result is, ideally, a functioning product, regardless of how it was assembled.

If I need to sync with Outlook, I want a product that does that and does it reliably. I don't care if it's from Microsoft or Nokia or Joe the Developer. I don't care what it's written in. I don't care if it's open source, freeware, shareware, or commercial [with many unlimited plans running over $1000 per year, a few bucks for applications is minor]. I just want it to work.

Right now, today, if you want to make money off your product and Maemo and Symbian are your only choices you should ignore Maemo and focus on Symbian. If the N900 turns out to be a success you can try to port it later. If you are programming for yourself, buy a phone you like and program for it. If you like the N900 and are willing to wait, fine.

Re: why doesn't maemo get traction in the market
 

First off, these are a great set of questions. And ones that have been asked here in various capacities over the past few years. Its harder to answer, and for a ship the size of Nokia, its not merly a "go do it" as much as it is "what will be effected in core and non-core assets if/when we do move to doing it."

As a developer, if you cannot create demand for your application, then you are either (a) building to scratch a personal itch, or (b) have no sense of building an application to solve a problem - you are more on the side of coding for fun - which isn't a bad thing, but you end up being limited towards what you can address when you have this perspective.

Nokia tried changing this (largely western/developed countries) perception with the creation of N and E series brand lines. They then offered the hardware in mobile devices that could do this. However, there was not as much attention given to the marketing or developing on-device aspects that could have been paradigm transforming.

That being said, there's a thread here that's been talking about how one can develop applications on the N900 (using TV-Out and wireless keyboard). This would be essentially something that shouldn't just be marketed by developers, but forwarded by Nokia as one of those genre-bending approaches to mobility that the N900 and Maemo 5/6 platforms enable to be done.

After that, its all about making development tools usable and *easy* on the N900. You then end up with users, knowledgeable that they can develop on their device, pushing applications from an open platform to a nearly open store to people who just have openly held and acknowledged issues. AKA, you change mobile ;)

This part actually requires people that think outside of the box to have people loudly shouting what it is that they do well - in good season and wisdom. When the tools become easier to use and maintain, communication with Nokia, Maemo, various other open source-supporting companies, and students becomes cleaner, then you see these changes from the bottom up.

Some of this you can see in some projects here now. For example, there are a slew of us working various angles towards getting a Bible application up and going for Maemo 5. There are some folks coding, others who will be testers, a UI/UX set of folks, and possibly more. This is allowing each of those persons to break the genre of "just another application" towards creating something that is platform defining.

EDIT: A week ago, I won an application from Nokia Conversations for asking why NFC wasn't included within the Maemo 5/N900 project and that it should be something added to the platform. This is the kind of out of the box thinking that opens up the appeal from other persons/orgs/areas. (end edit)

I can also say from personal experience that Maemo4 got a nice boost after WordPy was released. The UI/UX design, plus the attention of the developer and community allowed for Nokia to have a means to say what is possible when a community works together. But it all starts with communication. And that foundation/framework is here, just needs to be pushed/matured a bit.

By the way, HTC is quickly trying to change their model to be more like the Mer project - where the company develops something, sells it for a time, and then releases the code to the community to continue to enhance. This improves developer relations, and creates avenues for educational integrations that creates future HTC workers, marketers, etc. where these folks would have otherwise had little to no familiarity with that code or the persons there.

Is it possible to do this here? Yup.
Do you end up projecting the same image as HTC and Apple? Nope.

In time, all needed voices will rise to the top. Its a *body* though, and each part plays its role as needed - in silence until that moment.

Re: why doesn't maemo get traction in the market
 

If you are starting to develop today your application won't be ready today. Instead, program with portability in mind. This will provide long-term flexibility, and helps squashing bugs, too.

Re: why doesn't maemo get traction in the market
 

That is ONE business model. It is not the ONLY business model.

Now tell me, in this context, why would I care if that application came from an appstore ? Why would I care about what the developers business model is ?

You're not listening. By developing in Qt you get both. Actively making your application incompatible with other platforms is foolish at best.

Re: why doesn't maemo get traction in the market
 

I agree it is just one business model but I think you hit on a hugely important fact Why would I care about what the developers business model is ? I just want the application, or plug in, or extention or whatever - and i want it to work. Oh and I want it to be easy, to find, and install and set up. And if it looks cool too - Bonus!

Thank you for saying it so well

Re: why doesn't maemo get traction in the market
 

Remember: http://wiki.maemo.org/Objective:Best...nux_innovation

One year left or so.

Re: why doesn't maemo get traction in the market
 

Interesting discussion. It made me think that once maemo gains enough iUsers, who just buy whatever 5$ "apps" available at the ovi store, I just might re-package some freely available apps and sell them ;)

(Please let us not get into a morals flame war. If you don't want people doing this, use a license that prohibits it. GPL is specifically designed to allow it as long as some rules are respected)

Re: why doesn't maemo get traction in the market
 

[QUOTE=matthewcc;356833]I agree it is just one business model but I think you hit on a hugely important fact Why would I care about what the developers business model is ? I just want the application, or plug in, or extention or whatever - and i want it to work. Oh and I want it to be easy, to find, and install and set up. And if it looks cool too - Bonus!/QUOTE]

For many apps I don't care. The reason I care for some apps is that I want some assurance that the app will exist and will be updated in a year or two. I have a better assurance of continuing support when the app is developed by a group rather than an individual and when the developers have a business model that will allow them to focus on the app rather than on exams or a new baby or whatever.

If you look at sourceforge.net there are numerous apps which are no longer being supported. Just looking at the desktop environment section, there are almost 100 projects that have released files but have not made any updates in this century. If I happen to have a solitaire game that's abandoned, it's no big deal. If apps I count on are abandoned, it is. So, yes, for some apps I want to know the developers have a business model.