Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

Yes.

If you want to cancel your pre-order because the finalizing of order is delayed, fine. You can do that, and eventually mention that in a civilized way. There are most likely additional arguments for the cancel than purely the delaying, and the fact one cancels is their personal choice which is more important than it being mentioning.

What TS did however was taking the time and energy to register here on t.m.o, and write in a rude manner about his cancel of pre-order.

Who cares? I don't give a flying duck what may or may not be wrong in beta and pre-production work as long as it does not occur in MY DEVICE (meaning: -RELEASE). I don't care whether Linux kernel 2.6.31-rc1 blew up nuclear power plants, as long as the final version runs fine on my nuclear power plant.

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

i am going back to my beloved nokia 6510.

best phone ever.

-small
-does what a phone should do, make calls
-good design

dual sim, n900 on the side. learn some linux. create my own r0eladnized weird app which makes me disable the sim software-wise so i can switch between the 6510.
hey, that might be a good software idea :cool:

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

I'm just glad that Nokia isn't Palm

- Anounce cool device in January
- Release device in the US 5 months later
- No news about european release
- Release in UK, Germany and Spain 9 months after announcement
- Still no news on other countries..

And you can't use a device from other countries because their stupid unlock/register procedure..

Nokia isn't doing so bad so far.. :)

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

robbie, thats not true, if i'm not mistaking, they released the n96 something like 8-10 months after they announced it.

However i could be wrong.

Anyone knows more about that?

eikido

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

I was reflecting (after the battery died on the netbook and I still couldn't get back to sleep) about the complaints about nokia 'customer service'. I think we're missing something here.

1) Nokia has a very substantial bite of market share for mobile phones of one sort and another.

2) far and away the bulk of purchasers have zero contact with nokia at all: they buy through Carphone Whorehouse or the shop associated with their network supplier.

3) Far and away the bulk of customers do not buy phones that are new to market. They buy what the Nice Man recommends, or what they've seen their friends using.

4) Despite a suspicion that there were more pre-orders for this than expected, the number of people awaiting an n900 is fractional compared with nokia's total output.

Deduction: piss and moan all we want - we're no more than a zit on the face of nokia's empire. Maybe, if maemo 6 lives up to the dream, it will matter more next time. But even then, the number baying for their devices on release day will be small, when compared to the candy bar and symbian output.

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

Heheh. There's an idea for an Apple iPhone ad on this theme:

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

OMG!! :p I just about lost it in my office while reading this:) to funny...

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

Wasn't the N900 only officially announced at the start of September?

Its now the end of October, its not exactly a long wait till November.

If it is released in November a whole 2 months might have passed before they start shipping. Thats not too bad in my small opinion.

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

I hope this is clear to everybody. I wish I had the time to find Peter's post here now, but shouldn't be difficult to dig it out.

If you count the Summit dates, time to process feedback, also internal testing process... look at the calendar and you will see that we shared the information quite soon after making the decision.

About "Delay upon delay", I hope it's clear that first it was announced October and last week it was said November. That's it.

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

About the comments on whether Nokia cares about customers or not... The one and only reason of postponing the release date is software quality at sales start.

In your opinion, what would have shown more appreciation to our customers? Shipping the N900 in October ignoring the bugs our team has been chasing in the last weeks "only" to keep our public word?

As much as I wish you all would have an N900 in your hands and as much as I wish-not having to face threads like this, have no doubt that I personally feel good working in a team that decides the right time for a product based on the quality standards we have set to ourselves.

Thank you for your understanding! We do all this ultimately for you.

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

I think a lot of the 'delay upon delay' stuff is coming from people talking to third party suppliers and retailers rather than Nokia directly. Perhaps that's where communication is falling down.

When I've spoken with Nokia UK directly, I was always told 'tentative november' until recently, when it became 'november'. Third party stores have often been working off of the press release I think, 'mid october', 'late october', 'late november', 'mid november' are all of the responses I've had from asking around, and from reading a lot of these threads, other people have had the same experience.

Nokia DE, from other threads, also seem to not have been singing off the same hymnsheet, as IIRC they were using similar responses to those noted above.

Just a summary from what I know, hopefully it's useful to you in some way.

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

If you didnt want to wait, then you shouldnt have ordered an unreleased phone. Please dont come on an enthusiast website with your profanity because it serves absolutely no purpose. Nokia isnt a person who will start start feeling guilty about making you wait too long, they are a company and when they are ready they will launch.
I really am sick of people on this site complaining like children because they havnt got their toy. I think the time has come for moderators to step in this forum and delete these threads.

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

Agreed, but make sure they can differentiate between childish whining like this and the childish tongue-in-cheek banter the rest of us are spouting to pass the time ;)

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

and the profits! ;)

Thanks for that response qgil.
Not sure if a reason for the delay had been mentioned already by you or Peter, but hopefully that'll put some of the speculation to rest in regards to what the delays are inherent to.

Not pre-order numbers being underestimated,
Not hardware issues,
Not a misspelling on the box, (<-- I remember reading this somewhere)

But good ol' last minute software BUG FIXES! Patience, it'll be here soon! Can't wait!! :D

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

Optification of packages is a due step before giving n900 to the world's masses' hands imho, and might be a reasonable cause for this delay.

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

I've just been told by Nokia UK it willship end of November early December and he even cautions that "nothing is guaranteed".

:mad:

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

Do you know who you spoke to? I've been on the phone to them a number of times now and never gotten a response like that.

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

Did not get his name but you can try - after all its a free 0800 number.

Having been through pain with Nokia 5800 and now this; I'm begining to consider moving away from Nokia for good. If they continue in this way they'll be gone from the smartphone scene.

Hard to imagine but not impossible. Travelling into work today I was overwhelmed by the sheer number of people playing with their iPhones. A few years back it was all N95 or some other Nokia etc. I really fear for this company - good job they've diversified into Netbooks and services because their days of smartphone dominance is def at an end and they dont even know it.

FOOLS !!. :eek:

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

Personally, I don't really care since I'm not picking one up... but I thought a lot of the N900 grumblings were all about HOW it was communicated, moreso than the delay itself. Personally, if the device will be worth it--I'd rather wait, too. Most of my OWN grumblings center around support after the sale (parts, accessories, repairs, etc)... but that's mainly based on my own dreadful experiences with Nokia support for products (the two N800's I'd bought, Nokia BT headphones, etc.) and it's possible Nokia will have improved on that with the N900 (I don't expect it, but it's possible). The N900's a pretty expensive phone for most people... will Nokia provide a better experience for people who've bought this device? Hell--will customers even be able to order extra styluses?? heh

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

The German support told me, they don't even know, when this phone will be released.
They told me to ask my seller for a correct date of shipping.

So maybe the assistant you called just were tired of saying something about the N900 and pushed it back a little bit longer so costumers stop calling or he/she just also wants a N900 surfing this forum and is also in this "oh when will this phone starts?!" panic?

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

[QUOTE=fcukwaiting;359342] I'm through with being treated like an idiot.
/QUOTE]

A few months down the road, I hope you don't feel like one for passing on the N900 in your frustration. :rolleyes:

farewell

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

Here, posted on 10-22-09 , 10:31 AM. Whatever else you read elsewhere started from this Talk reply addressed to maemo.org members.

1. http://talk.maemo.org/search.php
2. Search by User Name - Peter@Maemo Marketing
3. Show Results as Posts
4. Search now

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

You have to also understand the frustration that's been building up since the release of the "flagship" N97.

Took over 6 months from announcement and the phone was buggy and unstable, expensive with 2 year old hardware. Pretty much burnt everyone except for the most hardcore fanboy.

The frustration level was already pretty high and Nokia fans were at hoping at least for better communication this time...

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

I doubt Nokia will come up with "Oh we have the N900 ready, it's the same as the N97: will be delayed 6 months, will work like a trash bin but we will announce one week later a much better phone with Maemo 6 - the New Communicator?"

Does the N97 really sucks so bad?

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

Well, if we extrapolate the level some are upset about a one month (I hope) delay, imagine how upset they would have been if Nokia released the N900 with the bugs they are fixing now. :eek:

Nokia loses in their minds either way. Best to get it as right as possible before releasing to the public.

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

There is no way that Nokia could handle this situation without upsetting no one.
If they not announced the N900 it would be dead just before launch, cause it is a open source phone.

The only thing I would recommened is, that they pushed the date back when taking pre-orders.
I think it's clear, that there will be some feedback when Nokia gives away 300 N900 for testing and start making programs.

I hope this device will not fail and all crybabies will crush the phone they bought instead of the N900 because they were just fed up waiting.

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

Seems the main issue was the memory correction. This takes time to roll out to hundreds of thousands of phones, or in the case of a first batch, thousands.

Factor in Nokia is trying to not only make the techs happy, Nokia has to make this device more "consumer friendly" ready for shipment.

Bad impressions would hurt the device and potential deals with Tmo or other potential carriers. If I go by Tmo management chatter (perhaps noise?), Tmo may be waiting on a more phone centric interface to be developed before considering adding the device to their portfolio.

One final and respectful (always) time, techs are the minority of the total population that will buy the N900. A lot of people are planning on replacing their current smart phones with the N900.

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

T-Mobile Germany offers the Nokia N900 if you ask for it.

Otherwise doesn't sounds soo good. But read for yourselfs

Telefon-Treff.de - T-Mobile offers N900

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

Isn't that what the N900 official ad video does?
In the end you get a call.. reminding you that, yeah, unfortunately, it's also a phone

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

Tell that to the diverse "shop.nokia.*" - afaics shop.nokia.de now has the *fourth* date (well, always saying "probably") on their page.

So yes, I can understand why people see a "delay after delay after delay".

Because how much more official than a date on Nokia's logistic pages can a release date be - at least in the eyes of the consumers?

I know that other stores did not do that but just stated "october" and then "november" without specific dates attached.

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

There, now you did it.

Stating exactly what you said above. "We don't have the SW quality we want to have when starting to ship, so we are delaying". I think a statement like this (no, Peter@Maemo's post was more vague than what you said) probably would have killed 60% of the posts on talk.mameo.org over the last two or so weeks.

And I mean that: People do understand *when* you give them reasons why you do things the way you do.

Maemo is supposed to be an open platform - and for open platforms open communication is a need. You're doing a very good job about that, maybe "the rest of Nokia" have to understand that this is needed from other parts within the company, too.

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

Which memory correction? Optifying happens completely on the builders, as the *packages* need to be changed.

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

To be honest, I can never understand why people pre-order any electronic products (wii probably being the only exception). I mean it's not like it's a limited edition collectibles or something. No matter how advanced the N900 is (which it is not), it's going to be obsolete soon. What's the point of pre-ordering and then getting all upset about the delays? I will wait till it gets to a store, handle it a bit to see whether I like it or not, read some real reviews (not just from excited fanboys who hasn't used it in a real world situation) and then maybe, just maybe, I will buy it on sale.

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

And of course the more secretive they are about the release date the less tolerant people will be i.e. if Nokia finds a critical bug this week that delays the N900 into 2010 then people will think they knew all along it would be delayed until then and they were just stringing them along.

A lack of openness destroys trust and undermines confidence. It's all very well to say the "normal" user won't be affected by this but without techies and early adopters there will be no "normal" users.

If Nokia wants people to pay cash for a platform we know is far from final (i.e. Maemo 6 and the device that goes with it is closer to where Nokia wants to be) then they need to court those users. Inviting bloggers etc to events and giving them free devices is one thing but you need unassociated people to buy the device and spread the word about it.

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

Sorry, I was referring to the more constrained carriers- the US.

Tmo US as far as phone selection and marketing seems to suck compared to Europe (IMHO).

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

That's maybe based on the fact, that Germany is a much smaller country than US and TMO needs to be the market-leader although the only carrier with inovations is O2.

The other ones just beating out crapped mobiles with brandings and contracts only cheap if all your friends using the same carrier.
Otherwise you pay the crap out of your bank account.

Wish they just copy the Austria market :D (it's totaly cheap)


I'm not sure if the US carriers will use the N900. It has built-in Skype and doesn't look like it will be branded.
Maybe a mangenta colored Maemo UI would be soooo nice :eek:

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

There wasn't any profanity in the OP, he/she simply used asterisks (*).

The posting wasn't about making Nokia feel guilty, it was about lack of information. I'd have mentioned the faux pas about the N900 being "step 4 of 5" too.

And sure, a company can release whenever it wants. Unless of course, it realizes it plays in a marketplace where people have choices, and other companies seems to meet expectations quite well in terms of availability.

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

This is the best article I've read which might explain the delay and slience from Nokia:

Which could be summarized as "Nokia knows that Symbian cannot cut it anymore given the competition and they know they only have one last shot given the n97 mess. So they are trying to reduce any negatives at launch"

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbi...n900_dela.html


"....but Nokia’s willingness to risk bad press and annoy customers underscores how crucial this product is to the company, which has been struggling to recapture momentum in smartphones lost to the likes of Apple (AAPL) and BlackBerry-maker Research In Motion (RIMM). The company blamed a shortfall in smartphone sales in part for its disappointing third quarter results announced Oct. 15."

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

As Peter@Maemo wrote this is "software improvement" delay due to release of 300 units to the wild.

This is official Nokia position and I hope they will see it as *beneficial* for platform and with next model such test release will be earlier so we can avoid similar problems in 2010.

Note that issue of involving broader audience of developers and active users was raised on this forum several times in the past. I don't know if "300" was result of
similar discussions in Nokia but if I am right next iteration should be more formalized and will be taken into account when planning release dates.

I know Nokia's openness with N900 development was without precedence in history but I (again) hope that recent events will reinforce that trend.

Re: A Message To Nokia, Peter, & Maemo Staff
 

yes! Yes!! YES!!!