Re: Noobs should use terminal!
 

This is why I think of the N900 as a phone and not a computer. I want my computer to be able to boot from a flash drive or optical drive, to be able to install an operating system from that drive, and to be able to back up every bit of data to that drive.

Until I can do that, I tend to lump terminal and root with the old Red Pill mode. Given the choice between limited capabilities and a working phone versus extended capabilities I can't get to because my phone is frozen, rebooting, displaying random characters, smoking, etc. - I know which I'll choose.

Re: Noobs should use terminal!
 

Backup allows you to save most of your data, plus an rsync would take care of the rest. After that, reflashing the device is far from being complicated, thus you can reinstall from scratch whenever you or an application you test bricks it. Overall, there are no limited capabilities really, again, root doesn't kill your device when used properly, and Red Pill will soon be gone, and doesn't provide anything useful anyway, so even advanced users would have no use in activating it.

Re: Noobs should use terminal!
 

If the GUI only gives the user 30% of the power of the system, then its not designed correctly.

Re: Noobs should use terminal!
 

Nope. It is however, incomplete.

In a distro like maemo, most of the underlying functionality should never need to be fiddled with by the end users.

The things that will hose your phone will brick your phone whether you do them in the GUI or in the shell. By not providing means to do those things in the GUI, the propensity of noobs/lamers to brick their phone is reduced.

Leet hackers don't need a GUI. There are those who like gestures, those who like regex, and never the twain shall meet. Probly.

Edit: switched "brick" for "hose" as that's really what I meant.

Re: Noobs should use terminal!
 

GUI should not be intrepreted as end-user; it should be intrepreted as a primary visual means the user or administrator uses to interface with the underlying system.

To that end, if the GUI isn't designed completely or well, then it doesn't matter if the person is a casual user, power user, or super user - if they can only get to 30% of the system's abilities, then its not done correctly - unless correct design follows some (general) assumption that seems to follow a lot of cultures ;)

In my opinion: A well designed UI (Graphical, Virtual, Textual, or mix of all) does the process of enabling the user to complete simple actions efficiently, and endears those who want to learn more about the system a safe and accessible means of doing so (for example, Symbian - despite its dearth of menus, PalmOS - despite its programming and usage paridigm roots, or iPhone - despite its utter disregard for user-flow-paradigms outside of S. Job's.).

Re: Noobs should use terminal!
 

Absolutely. Windoze has GUI programs for all sorts of functions which will allow you to brick your computer. The advantage of them is that they will warn you that you probably don't want to do certain things, they will provide help functions to explain what can and should be done, the will edit input to help avoid fat finger syndrome, and the better ones will allow you to preview or review and undo changes.

After all, you can do things like word processing without a GUI. But would you want to?

Re: Noobs should use terminal!
 

Hi

I agree with the original poster, users shouldn't be afraid of giving the terminal a go if they *want to* try it.

For me the beauty of Linux is that you can use a gui or command line, and that choice of control and power is transferred to mobile computing with Maemo. Nobody is forced to use a gui or terminal, but Maemo gives you both, you can choose, and if you would like to try the terminal I've made a start writing a wiki page covering some basic commands for new users to get started.

http://wiki.maemo.org/Terminal

I've literally just done this in 30 mins, so I'll do some more editing of the page tomorrow to make it easier to read and then set up the wiki links. I'd recommend holding off following my instructions until I've properly finished it. I'll also need some help from someone with an N900 to make sure what works on my N810 applies to the N900.

BTW, there are some comments in this thread that have different views on a gui v terminal, on this subject I say each to their own. However views that are scaremongering like you will brick your device are a bit melodramatic. If you are that risk averse, then you probably shouldn't have a phone in the first place, as I reckon you are more likely to lose data from dropping the phone or having it stolen than giving the terminal a try. In any event, before trying the terminal, or using the gui, it is best to back up your data to cover for any mishaps.

Rich

Re: Noobs should use terminal!
 

Thanks Rich. I wish this had existed when I got my N810.

As a Linux n00b, I've shied away from threads which mention Terminal. A page like this helps me to get a handle on it and better understand what is being discusses.

Re: Noobs should use terminal!
 

Now why didn't i think of that? It's a grrrrrrreat idea! I made some edits to it, though i think it needs an overhaul, because it's simply not noob-friendly

Re: Noobs should use terminal!
 

Thanks for editing. Yeah I'll do some more to it tomorrow and make it easier to follow.

Rich

Re: Noobs should use terminal!
 

In fact, there are far too many of those messages of the type "If you unselect updates, they won't get installed" in Windoze, so people stop reading them and just click OK, which makes them useless.

It's obvious that not too many people would want that. The point is, you can use LyX to write a document, but still automatically generate documents on a server without needing Adobe Illustrator on it.

Re: Noobs should use terminal!
 

I think that you may be underestimating the resources required to implement this "correct" design, and the system resources required to sotre the implementation.

Or maybe underestimating the sheer diversity of possible exploitations of system power.

Re: Noobs should use terminal!
 

One suggested topic - wildcards. If I had to guess I'd guess they follow somebody's definition of regular expressions but most people might need a bit of help (and I might be totally off base and need as much help as they do).

Re: Noobs should use terminal!
 

I've had a go this evening making the wiki Terminal app page easier to read and added a bit about wildcards,

http://wiki.maemo.org/Terminal

Cheers
Rich

Re: Noobs should use terminal!
 

@j.s - not underestimating at all; expecting the system to be designed better is just what I do

Re: Noobs should use terminal!
 

I'm a Linux noob, but I'm very familiar with a DOS prompt from way back in the dark days before Windows (or Linux) to include using Novell Netware as my fileserver which had a "GUI" that consisted of ANSI characters.

Of course you can get in trouble working at that level of an operating system, just like you can get yourself in trouble opening the hood of a car and unplugging different things on your engine. But a global rule that noobs shouldn't use terminal is a bit drastic. Like I said, I'm new to Linux, but in just using GUI methods I've already "messed up" my N810 twice to the point that I had to resort to the terminal to resolve the problem. I guess I could've just reflashed it, but that's not exactly for the faint of heart either. In my career as a network engineer, I've also known plenty of people who don't know what a DOS prompt is, but yet they managed to mess up their Windows installation quite nicely without ever leaving the "safe" GUI.

Anyone who isn't practicing proper backup techniques of any system are simply not being realistic when it comes to operating electronic devices, whether dinking around in terminal, DOS prompt, etc. or not. If a complete noob wants to dink around in terminal, and (on the very rare chance) ends up putting the right combination of commands and options together to delete everything, and doesn't have a current backup of their system, well...I would have to call them....a customer. And they're welcome hire me ($ CHA-CHING $) as a consultant to correct these issues at any time. ;)

-- Chris