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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)
-   Nokia N900 (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=44)
-   -   Why is the N900 image size so small? (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37027)

ARJWright 2009-12-14 00:00
Re: Why is the N900 image size so small?
 
Comparing the 3+years of development that went into the N95 to the just implemented feature of the N900 seems at one instance unfair and another speaks to the teams at Nokia that might not have talked enough or shared enough lessons learned to make such compairsons moot.

Anyone want to get a N95 Carl Zeiss programmer in here so that an attemppt to fix things follows those lessons learned?

lma 2009-12-14 01:12
Re: Why is the N900 image size so small?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessi3k3 (Post 426243)
In that case, I wouldn't mind a command line only camera application :p
Well, it's all v4l2 and gstreamer under the hood. You can use something like "gst-launch v4l2src device=/dev/video0 ! ffmpegcolorspace ! pngenc snapshot=1 ! filesink location=photo.png" for starters...

attila77 2009-12-14 02:53
Re: Why is the N900 image size so small?
 
I was kind of contemplating to write a small front-end to tweak the things available through the config file, that, at least, should be fairly non-destructive (and safer than having people editing config files and restarting daemons). Kind of worried to release it to Extras though, people might think it will turn their N900 into a DSLR, which it most certainly won't.

RevdKathy 2009-12-14 08:11
Re: Why is the N900 image size so small?
 
Two things: first, did anyone have the n95 at first release? I did (first day) and the camera sucked. The colour balance was waay off. It was dreadful. Took a couple of firmware updates before they really improved it.

Secondly, I have seen at least one person getting amazing photos from an n900, so a lot of it is down to usage. If someone who was in Barcelona can identify Thomas (sp?) who was taking a lot of pics, for me and point me to his board username, I'd like to ask him to write us a wiki page on how to get the best out of the camera.

kryptoniankid17 2009-12-14 08:49
Re: Why is the N900 image size so small?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bratag (Post 426383)
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33420

Read that thread.

And as I said this is most likely NOT a software related issue, there is only so much that can be done in software (if I get another idiot emailing me about my camera app in Android not having a flash - Like I can code a goddamn flash into your phone when it doesnt have one - I may lose my mind). There may be tweaks that can be applied via software, image format and compression etc. But ultimately we are talking about a small aperture and most likely a small sensor as well. Remember this is a PHONE - the camera part is a small component in an otherwise large set of them. Comparing it to a dedicated camera etc is pointless.
nokia has plenty of phones with cameras with amazing quality. so i should except a step backwards? have you ever owned a nokia?

HugoSon 2009-12-14 10:37
Re: Why is the N900 image size so small?
 
It takes good pictures; but of course you cannot compare it to a digital camera – even having fewer pixels. I.e. the distance between the (very, very small) sensor and the (plastic! a mobile phone is supposed to be light; so nobody would accept glass lenses) lens is just too small to get a good parallel light signal on the sensor. You can do quite a bunch with software – but there are limits.

DaSilva 2009-12-14 10:45
Re: Why is the N900 image size so small?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RevdKathy (Post 426798)
Two things: first, did anyone have the n95 at first release? I did (first day) and the camera sucked. The colour balance was waay off. It was dreadful. Took a couple of firmware updates before they really improved it.

Secondly, I have seen at least one person getting amazing photos from an n900, so a lot of it is down to usage. If someone who was in Barcelona can identify Thomas (sp?) who was taking a lot of pics, for me and point me to his board username, I'd like to ask him to write us a wiki page on how to get the best out of the camera.
Do you mean Tomaszd?

sennyk 2009-12-14 12:37
Re: Why is the N900 image size so small?
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieCharlie (Post 426229)
While we're talking about images, is there a way to timestamp images as I need a time and date on photos for work purposes??
The images are stored in the EXIF file format. There is a tag in the EXIF header that can be used to fill in the time and date. My N900 fills this in properly. If you have a debian based system, you can install an app that will spit out the EXIF tags. The command line app is called exif. Type "sudo apt-get install exif" to install it.

Before this app came out, I wrote an app to change the name of all of my jpegs to the date and time the picture was taken. Attached to this is the source for this.

deakhead 2009-12-14 12:52
Re: Why is the N900 image size so small?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kieron (Post 425943)
Just looks a little grainy(er) or something - i dont know, hard to explain. Thought it might be related. Looks pretty good though, for a phone:

http://i46.tinypic.com/2lkb4i1.jpg

taken on my desk a few minutes ago of a buzz i have lying around!
The grainy are digital noise of camera sensor due to insufficient lighting. I say this because JPEG compression artifacts appear differently. Cellphones generally have small aperture (the hole where light goes in) so it is difficult to take good pictures in dim light -- this includes N900. I was kinda disappointed but well this is not a professional DSLR, so I guess I had too high of expectation from N900. You can get a pretty good quality image in day light though.

Bratag 2009-12-14 14:08
Re: Why is the N900 image size so small?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptoniankid17 (Post 426828)
nokia has plenty of phones with cameras with amazing quality. so i should except a step backwards? have you ever owned a nokia?
Um yes I have actually - and I didn't mention anything about you having to take a step backwards - I was simply pointing out in the post you quoted that there are a limited number of things that can be fixed in software.

That being said - comparing one Nokia to another without knowing the exact hardware in each is as stupid as comparing the N900 to a dedicated camera. Just because one Nokia had a certain set of HW doesn't automatically mean the next one will have the same or better.

GeneralAntilles 2009-12-14 14:50
Re: Why is the N900 image size so small?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RevdKathy (Post 426798)
If someone who was in Barcelona can identify Thomas (sp?) who was taking a lot of pics, for me and point me to his board username, I'd like to ask him to write us a wiki page on how to get the best out of the camera.
That'd be Tuomas, and he goes by tigert. You can find him on Freenode most of the time.

attila77 2009-12-14 15:26
Re: Why is the N900 image size so small?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by deakhead (Post 427036)
Cellphones generally have small aperture (the hole where light goes in) so it is difficult to take good pictures in dim light -- this includes N900.
It's not that simple. A 'bigger hole' would mean an aperture of f/1.4 or similar. This in turn would not just change the amount of light, but a slew of other things - like softer images, shallower DOF, getting washed out more easily in daylight (remember, the aperture is not variable). Any imaging system is a heap of compromises. Singling out just one parameter will not necessarily improve the performance of the imaging system as a whole.

RevdKathy 2009-12-14 17:55
Re: Why is the N900 image size so small?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles (Post 427205)
That'd be Tuomas, and he goes by tigert. You can find him on Freenode most of the time.
See, that's how I got confused... there were at least two people there called Thomas or something pronouced like that.

Thanks both. :)

ossipena 2009-12-14 18:38
Re: Why is the N900 image size so small?
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bratag (Post 426365)
Listening to people crap on about MP in cameras always reminds me of a mate who sold high end Audio equipment - when people would ask how many watts a speaker was he would always reply "How many would you like". The basic idea being that watts != good.

Megapixels in a camera will only get you so far more important are the aperture and the lens as well as the sensor size of the digital camera. So while your "old crappy camera" may have less pixels - it may very well take better photos because of a better combination of the above.MOST phone cameras have a very small sensor and this results in the bad image quality you see in low light.

Now its also important to remember that despite cameras being "point and click" a modicum of intelligence is required when taking pictures. Where the light source is, is a very important consideration. Since the camera is for the most part trying to detect what settings it should use (exposure etc) having a subject with a strong backlight is going to result in dark images as the camera tries to compensate for the light levels behind.

I strongly suggest people read

http://photo.net/equipment/digital/basics/

and

http://digital-photography-school.co...a-camera-phone

Lastly - it is in fact possible to decrease the compression of images taken on the N900 as per the config file. YOU MUST HOWEVER RESTART THE CAMERA DAEMON AFTER THE CHANGE.
here's my 4mpix resized to half size. wb + sharpness adjusted afterwards (because it is the only real way to go with raws).
And half size because I'm so confident about my 4 megapixels and I don't want to make people feel too depressed about compact size cameras.

http://talk.maemo.org/attachment.php...1&d=1260815845

e: sorry, that was far less than half size, forum software did some resizing afterwards.

Kieron 2009-12-14 19:01
Re: Why is the N900 image size so small?
 
Wow, I never thought that this thread would get so much attention!

Anyway, yeah. I too hope that it can only improve in future firmware upgrades, much like N**s.


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