Re: Red pill mode, wtf?
 

It makes it harder to install from file, a nice gui is easier to use and more user friendly than memorizing a terminal command.

nice bold btw

Re: Red pill mode, wtf?
 

And again, the point here isn't that people should be forced to the terminal to do that, it's that they shouldn't do that, because it's daft. If you develop an app, upload it to extras-devel, then -testing, then when it's tested enough, to the main maemo extras. Before that, the pointy-clicky gui only types shouldn't be installing it, because if it stuffs their device they won't have a hope of recovering the situation.

Re: Red pill mode, wtf?
 

Soo . . . libraries and commandline apps? Don't get it.

Re: Red pill mode, wtf?
 

What are you, a communist? Everyone should upload to the same place! No private stores, there's just the centrally-run store!!! :p

Re: Red pill mode, wtf?
 

Yes, but that provides great quality assurance & checks.

I'm not PRO for making the red pill mode easy to enable, I'm totally against that.
I simply said it should not be taken out and there should be some tricky way to enable it, for people who know what they are doing and not for the average user.
Red pill should be there for convenience and not for ease of use, typing dpkg is easy enough also.
Convenience = times when you can't use the full keyboard.

- it's like... you're not gonna get .debs anyway anywhere, it's just for devs & ppl who like to mess around.
And why would you want to install an unupdatable app?
Searching weekly/monthly dor updates, uninstalling and reinstalling the .deb ist toatally no fun!

Re: Red pill mode, wtf?
 

it really isnt hard to dl , then run a deb.

trust me i have only been using maemo 5(never used linux b4) for a week.

i think red pill mode should go, it could cause problems..

if you are using terminal and you install an unstable app, at least you are half way there in terms of fixing the problem.

Re: Red pill mode, wtf?
 

I believe that you are all barking up the wrong tree.

The point here is not really about Red Pill Mode[ or not.

The purpose of Red Pill Mode is not, and never was, the installation of packages obtained from other sources.

This functionality used to be a completely separate menu option in previous incarnations of maemo - see screenshot.

Add this option back into the menu and most of the objections to the removal of Red Pill Mode would vanish!

Re: Red pill mode, wtf?
 

http://wiki.maemo.org/Desktop_file_format

e: did you btw know that you can brick your device when red pill has been taken just by installing wrong package that is in the list just as every other piece of software? is that the user frienldliness you are after?

Re: Red pill mode, wtf?
 

Sorry but i have to disagree.
imho the gui should be used for stable repos only.
id even say extras-devel shouldn't be allowed with gui.
we have people moaning that extras-devel and testing arent 100% stable, having red pill mode is because of these types a really bad idea.

unfortunate, because having the gui is easier but to push maemo into mainstream we need to protect some people from themselves.

ive been using linux commercially for over ten years and i wouldnt consider myself a guru, yet we have people who have one or two months casual exposure that think they are.

maybe its just me being over cynical?

Re: Red pill mode, wtf?
 

Yyep, that's all the functionality I want from red pill, install from file.

Re: Red pill mode, wtf?
 

While I admit adding "install from file" would alleviate a lot of peoples concerns (since that seems to be the only thing people think "red pill" does.. which is untrue)..

Adding it to the default interface makes it even easier.. and installing random deb's from the internet is.. again... a bad idea. Unless you want to take the time to ar -x and read the source code/config files of any package you want to install this way.. just to be sure you're not putting something harmful, or broke, on your phone.

I mean.. especially a phone here.... there's already people that want to write a voice recorder for the N900.. imagine if I decided to write a new fancy "game" that you all loved playing.. but in the background recorded all your phone calls and sent them to me over the web.... not that difficult. (just as an example).

When it comes to a phone.. you should be really picky about where you're getting your software..

I'm not saying you *have* to use the maemo repo's... but I would recommend *never* downloading from megaupload. If someone makes a deb for Maemo.. the least they could do is setup their *own* repo with a signing key. And in that case you still don't need an install from file or red pill.. just add this person whom you trust with all your personal secrets' repo to your phone and it'll work right within the default app manager interface.

*shrug*

Re: Red pill mode, wtf?
 

Now factor in that it is possible for badware to not only brick your $600 phone (and I mean irreversibly brick it), but also physically fry it and you see we have a potential problem.

Re: Red pill mode, wtf?
 

yep good points dudes, its a minefield out there

Re: Red pill mode, wtf?
 

What minefield? We're the enthusiast segment, maemo represents 0.1% of the smartphones out there.
No one makes mines for the bunch of people that we are - you can surely guess that the users on this forum represents the exact number of N900 owners considering that few do not register and some have other NXXX device.

I come from the hacked and overhacked symbian and I have NEVER EVER had a malware issue.
I use windows XP since 2004 (98 before) and I've never EVER logged in as something else than Admin and no I almost don't use anti-virus software AT ALL and NO I never lost money or data on the internet!
How does my PC stay clean? - easy! open source freeware! There's no paid software that doesn't have a better free alternative - so no I don't have to install "super extra mega new 100%spywarefree video converter cr@cked by virus lordz" on my pc.
I simply learnt to know what to get and where to get it from.

If you guys think that enabling "install from file" and some other smalltime red pill options that let you bypass install issues makes your device so vulnerable, it can only mean two things:
a) you give linux and maemo wayyy too much importance - which noone does(neither do "they" give it to winmo or symbian)
b) as I said before you're uber-geeks!

*"they" are the evil hackers that set up minefields for your maemo!


And supposing you would listen to me and give the users the nice installing options they want (don't forget the uninstalling!) what could possibly happen?
Some people might have issues & you would have to teach a thing or two about commands, unbricking and linux - like if you'd make them go through dpkg they'd learn that all of a sudden...

*noone likes the big book of linux!

Re: Red pill mode, wtf?
 

I was THIS >< close to telling you how to enable red pill mode using dd.

Stop being so goddamn arrogant and don't come crying here when you get rooted. Goodbye.

Re: Red pill mode, wtf?
 

Haha, I actually run linux at home. Kubuntu, and Backtrack. Apparently i'm too much of an idiot to figure out how to enable ANY of the repositories outside of extras. It's funny because I only install apps from the command line on my laptop, I absolutly hate scrolling through the package managers. In turn, I downloaded the .deb file for dial central, and turned on red pill mode. Ooops, app wouldn't install. I opened x terminal and I was able to dpkg the app and install missing components. Now, i'm not a linux genius, but i've flashed phones before and i'm comfortable running the command line. For me it is easier, and I agree that we shouldn't provide the tools for someone to damage their phone right off the bat. Now, can someone please explain to me why the settings to access extras-devel and extras-testing that are found all over this site don't work for me? :D

Re: Red pill mode, wtf?
 

And I was THIS >< close to creating a .deb file he can install to learn more about the motivation behind opinions opposed to his. :eek:

:D

Re: Red pill mode, wtf?
 

I think you guys are arrogant by always knowing best what's better for everyone else.

And LoL no, I probaby won't come here IF I brick my phone because there's wayy too much geek&nerd on the cm^2 to do the I told you so dance instead of offering some decent advice.

Re: Red pill mode, wtf?
 

While this does happen... I think pretty invariable and regardless... you do get help here.

That's why I like it here.... very seldom to I see questions completely ignored or unanswered... even ones where the user brought it on themselves, or didn't search, or have already asked 4 times... they all get responses.

Sometimes less-than-super-happy responses... but responses - and usually an answer.

Re: Red pill mode, wtf?
 

BTW have you noticed how almost anyone doesn't give a damn if redpill gets removed?
I guess most people don't use it & don't care & the rest simply use dpkg.
So much for the great risks...

Re: Red pill mode, wtf?
 

I don't see your point..

I do see more people voting to get rid of it in this thread... but I also see quite a few people complaining in the other red pill thread floating around here.

It obviously has caused a problem throughout the past though if it got brought to be removed in the first place. I personally see no benefit to it.. and see only negative. Our opinions differ... so be it.

Re: Red pill mode, wtf?
 

yes. with red pill you can break your OS just by tapping wrong app to install..

for gods sake, create a script and a icon for it to menu

DISCLAIMER: IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TYPING, BE READY TO REFLASH YOUR DEVICE

first, create a folder to put a file you want installed. for example
xterm:
and then let's create some content to installer.sh
(haven't tested if this works)
and then just modify rights to installer.sh
and icon creation is a task for yourself. this is just a demo what you can do with maemo in 10 minutes (it took about that to write this whole post).

that script will install a deb from folder tbi and copy it to folder habi after it has been installed. so just download a deb to tbi -folder and run the script.

i'd modify the script heavily before really make it execute with no output etc (aka via an icon with no terminal opening) just because it has no instructions what to do if something goes wrong.

Re: Red pill mode, wtf?
 

What I miss about Red Pill Mode is that one could see all the packages/libraries/etc installed on the machine and see all the dependencies (not just the few things installed from "extras"). Being able to easily see that information in a GUI makes it easier to understand the system and to figure out what I just hosed when I installed that .deb from the shell....
I also used RedPill to uninstall default programs that I never used e.g. marbles/chess/etc. (although that has become more difficult with the consolidation of several programs under a null package).

Re: Red pill mode, wtf?
 

I had the red pill mode enabled and probably installed around 10 apps only once did it cause a problem to my device which i fixed after a bit of reading . I knew there were risks but i did not care as after all i had just bought a Open devive which i thought meant i could choose to do whatever i wanted with it . Then after the last firmware update i find that redpill mode has been disabled ( imho made the device a little more closed ) and now i have to do something new to me and learn how to use x-terminal install things like rootish which i know nothing about . My point is that there are probably only a few people out there who are going to bother enabling the red pill mode most would probably be afraid of bricking there device so why bother taking away my choice to do what i want with my device in the simpliest way for me . Also how many devices have been bricked ireversably ?
Openess i thought meant choice and now one of my choices has gone .

Re: Red pill mode, wtf?
 

i couldn't agree more

Re: Red pill mode, wtf?
 

I scanned the whole thread in search for one reasonable person telling you all that the reason for disabling redpill mode is Ovi Store, but I couldn't find that answer, which is surprising.

So I'm telling you all now, Ovi Store is the reason for removing redpill mode. If you could enable redpill mode, you could then bypass Ovi Store and install applications directly using Application Manager. The argument that it would be too dangerous for end-users is also a valid one, they tend to be more scared of the terminal.

Of course that doesn't stop you from installing apps from the Ovi Store using apt-get, which works just fine (for example run "apt-cache search offscr-*" as root to list all the Ovi Store games) as long as you know the name of the package you want to install. This is great for me, because I can't stand having to log in to Ovi Store every time, click install *again* after getting logged in (why doesn't it ask me to log in first and then show the installation button, what's the point), then sit around and wait while seemingly nothing is happening, then wait for the whole list of repositories to get downloaded again (which takes a long time if you have extras-devel enabled, so if we get 300 apps into Extras it's going to get ugly for everyone), then click Install yet again in the Application Manager... There is absolutely nothing compelling about the experience there, so I prefer the terminal. Want solitiare? Just run apt-get install offscr-solitaire (as root) and be done with it.

Sorry, this is more of an angry rant about Ovi Store than anything else.

Re: Red pill mode, wtf?
 

Actually, that isn't really the case. Yes, it's a reason why Red Pill was removed, but it's not the reason. The archives on -developers (and possibly -community) back this up (too lazy to dig, though). It was more community consensus than anything that resulted in Red Pill being removed (talk to Marius).

Re: Red pill mode, wtf?
 

Why do you need redpill modes . I installed a lot of .deb packages but I never used redpill mode

Re: Red pill mode, wtf?
 

probably zero, but that argument doesn't change a thing. a bit like it is ok to do intentioned hit and run when there is snow as long as nobody gets killed...

yes, openness is about choices, it is not about out of the box apps for every task.
http://maemo.org/packages/view/appinstaller/

that app is a good indication why your pro red pill arguments can't stand the light: UK has done an app that replaces the behind all the menus -hassle and gives the same end result. problem solved, lock the thread.