Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

I second this thought, being able to extract a single solution from those "enhance them all" proposals would be strike against loosing good ideas! Opening new proposals with the "hot" solutions for one topic as digest of those "enhance them all" items. (may call it "move to new proposal allready [Under consideration]"-process)

People try to merge topics to one as they have dependencies, having them not merged but creating dependencies and proper linking like "this bug depends on bugXXXX" would be another feature I like. so workflow could be - split "enhance them all" items into topics but show dependencies and keep the 'enhance them all' items to show what is already proposed and where to find. Structuring in categories maybe? Not like forum categories, more like a 'mother' proposal with 'children'.

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

I'm not sure I have the same understanding of 'brainstorm'. In my experience a brainstorm does tend to be something wild and woolly that generates a shower of ideas. After the 'brainstorm' bit has finished, you start that hard process of picking over the ideas to assess them for feasibility, resources and what methods are appropriate. At that stage, some of the ideas will get left behind, because they're not feasible, need unavailable resources or simply don't fit into the method adopted for the overall process. I don't think I've ever been in a brainstorm event that didn't end up leaving some ideas in a puddle on the floor for one of these reasons. If they were particularly good ideas, they generally get picked up again in another process. If you want to create a procedure for ensuring that good ideas that don't fit one process don't get forgotten entirely, that would be excellent.

But the feeling I get from this discussion is that you want to start the process further down the process, after the actual 'storm' has finished, so that you can concentrate on the feasibilty, method and resources aspect.

If that's what you want, fine - but I'm not sure you should call it 'brainstorm'?

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

you are just right, intention was not to split out the ideas taken for development and keep the related, it was split out the ideas taken plus the related but leave the unrelated still active.

For example, you got an "enhance phone-app" proposal that got everything in it from answering to recording calls and so on.

You split out the whole solutions (brainstormed solutions) created for "recording calls" and put it into a new but allready [In development] item showing what was picked for development and what was not. Still linked from the mother item so people know that it is there and work in progress.

The "enhance phone-app" item now shows everything but recording features (they are linked now) and is still active as [Under consideration] for the remains.

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

Why not simply "pick" the logical implement-worth and voted solutions for processing and reset the brainstorm? change the name too if it's necesary...

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

Bingo, thank you Kathy!

You just nailed the root of my continued confusion.

IMO Individual solutions need a way of being escalated independent of the proposal or other solutions. The proposal, being a parent object, would be in an Open state until all child objects were resolved one way or another.

That's what I had thought we were going to with the last work done on the Brainstorm system. Guess I misunderstood. But IMO that's the way to do this: allow child objects to have independent states and lifecycles.

Either than, or we're going to have to go to one proposal, one solution-- and that introduces its own set of problems.

Bottom line, this needs to be treated as a true workflow/project management process. Right now it seems to be in some sort of quasi state that's not viable.

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

After Kathy confirmed my understanding of what an actual Brainstorm process is supposed to be, I did a little more thinking about this. I have a suggestion:

- Start Brainstorms here, instead of at the formal Brainstorm site (Forming stage).

- Foster discussion here (ie, true brainstorming) before even creating a formal proposal.

- At some point, the proposal creator and/or moderator(s) declare the Storming portion over and begin the Norming process (creating the formal proposal, adding solutions)

- Voting is opened to the community along with further discussion

- Voting is cutoff at some point and prioritizing done for action (Performing)

At the moment I don't know how to define cutoff points... number of posts? Time elapsed? Consensus? Lack of steam? Not sure. But I think something like this better matches real life brainstorming and manages the process better given the lack of proper structure and dual "homes" of the system tools...

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

That's fine in theory but how do we prevent it from becoming utter chaos if we aren't imposing some kind of higher order on the threads here than in the rest of Talk?

I still think we need some kind of limit or quota to focus efforts enough to actually make headway.

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

We have chaos now. I realize what I am suggesting may not diminish it, but if we found a way to make cutoffs work, it should make the chaos more manageable. I think.

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

*Mumble mumble - this is just random reflections while I reflect them - not fully thought through yet...*

We seem to be missing the element of responsibility. Who is responsible for seeing a project through? Right now, Brainstorm is a place and a process where anyone with a good idea can throw it out there and see if anyone else is interested (which is good) but they don't have any responsibility for what happens next (which I think is maybe not good). This is especially noticeable when the ideas are coming from people who lack the skills to enact them.

Right now, I have two 'pet projects' as I would see them: I don't actually have the skills to make them happen - but I do see it as part of my responsibility to see them through and keep them happening, find skilled people, co-ordinate, encourage, enthuse, test, etc. To me, that's what I can put in (in the absence of any actual ability), and a responsibility I take on when I launch the idea. It's one of the main reasons I didn't start a Brainstorm till this weekend: I wasn't in a space for the responsibility. In addition, it will be up to me in my head when I feel that they've gone about as far as I can take them - if other people pick them up and run, that's fine - this isn't meant to be exclusive in any way. I won't stop till I feel I've completed the process - even if the end is some project equivalent of WONTFIX.

My feeling is that we have lots of people who think generating ideas and asking for stuff/features/apps is all they need to do and then it's someone else's problem. Can we somehow encourage people to take responsibility for their projects?

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

When it comes to things where the implementation comes down to "would Nokia please consider implementing xxx", either becuase it's a closed component or it's basically driven by Nokia staff, I'm not sure how to take responsibility for it as an outsider after the ideas stage.

I've avoided much with Brainstorms so far because I feel like some have said, that it could be a /dev/null where ideas go to die.

And also because my ideas so far have tended to be "the following 30 little UI tweaks would make it that much better" and I get the impression I am supposed to create 30 separate brainstorms? That seems way too likely to get bogged down in non-productive committee-itis ("little tweaks") and unlikely to achieve coherent results anyway.

Some of my instincts at the moment tell me I should fork Fremantle to make a personal version, and just patch a few things to see if I like my UI tweaks after all, and if so make them available to others as patched packages. That may be a more direct route than slow, scattered exchanges on t.m.o.

I'm not sure if that's a good idea or not, and I'm sure it isn't that easy, but it seems more useful than /dev/null. Especially with the uncertainty about whether discussed changes will make their way to the N900 anyway, or only to future Maemo6 devices which I may not want to buy (due to the DRM or other factors).

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

Thanks Kathy, that's the more direct way of asking what i was trying to verbalize. The only way to make brainstorm work is to make it a mechanism for project delegation; to require either the original proposer (your direct approach) or somebody who's just interested in pushing things along because there is a clearly delineated queue and they either are interested in helping and it's clear enough where to put their efforts, or they have their own pet proposal in the wings and know that the best way to get it to the front is by moving the line along. People need and want to see progress and results and the current fragmentation hides any of that and disenfranchises most would-be participants.

While in theory i like your direct approach better, i haven't been able to come up with a way to implement it, which is why i proposed a less direct but tractable approach (a queue or quota).

One way to meet in the middle is to have a group of Brainstorm Executors who are the only ones empowered to actually admit new proposals. Each could adopt some small number of proposals at a time and not take a new one from the pool until one of their batch was resolved. Perhaps they could increase the size of their batch as they demonstrate success at completing the ones given to their charge, thus integrating a feedback mechanism of sorts.

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

I agree, but I also think that what we have now is more of a brain tornado than a storm. As I previously suggested, some measures should be taken to condense the ideas of a single user rather than allowing him to chaotically post countless bits and pieces across multiple solutions.

I think this could be easily implemented via the brainstorm faq.

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

Precisely my concern if proposals are allowed to be too granular. High level proposal/various level scoped solutions is the way to do this IMO.

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

I don't like the Idea to only allow one Solution per User and Brainstorm. Some people have more skills on kreativity and UI desing than other or they are themself not sure which solution could be the best and want a decision from the community.

Just a example: I've added myself 2 Days ago a Brainstorm with 4 own solutions. I hope there could be more in the future. In my opinion they are totally different. And I don't know myself which could be the best solution. I hope the Brainstorm process could give a good answer for this.
You can judge yourself here. They are different. Could you agree?

It sounds like the idea to build a cave to keep the Brainstorm system running. But the Problem are not 5 Ideas from one person. If a Idea is only spam a Moderator could delete it and ban the user. Then everything is fine. The real problem is the actual system isn't working!

I think a own workflow for every (more than 66% positiv voted) Brainstorm "Solution" could be a huge improvement.
Something like this options for every Idea:

• "MOVED TO OTHER BRAINSTORM"
• "DECISION PENDING"
• "IMPLEMENTED IN 2.2010.05-1"
• "TARGET Harmattan"
• "WONTFIX (because of)"

With this we wouldn't have the problem: "Whats with the other 19 proposals when the first is implemented?" - it should be handled on "Solution"-Level, not on "Brainstorm"-Level.

Think of the initial post of a Brainstorm only as a Headline. It's the abstract of a problem. Perhaps lets have 2 kind of Brainstorms.
"Brainstorming" (for Calendar and maps improvement) and "Solution search" (for detailed discussion for a Idea from a Brainstorm)


Don't forget. The Community is fast growing, and the new N900 is not perfect. The people still missing many things on their new toy. This is the reason for the tornado instead of the brainstorm. ;)


Mmh, I guess this could be marked as "Moved". It sounds like a enhancement request. "The scope of bugs are..."
Please add a Brainstorm! :D (sorry, just kidding, seen to often in the past 4 weeks for such kind of requests)

But in my opinion the problem of "spam" is selfmade. The users have a problem, they post it to bugs.maemo.org, then the answer is create a Brainstorm because there are to much undetailed bug reports. Now they are all creating Brainstorms. What could be a good solution? Where have they now to move? ;)


2 more things I'm missing:

• When I change my decision after voted for a Solution and there is a new, better Solution a couple of weeks later. I should be able to change my decision and delete my own vote to appreciate the new, in my opinion, better solution.
  
• The Original Poster of a Brainstorm should have the potential to change the headline himself. (not important, but in my opinion a Brainstorm could change his direction during the discussion)

EDIT:
Thanks Texrat. I guess I was not fast enough writing my toughts down. But how many level could we need? I got the Idea of 2 Levels. But could this be enough?

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

Helmuth, WELL put! I think you would make a great moderator for the actual Brainstorm site. ;)
The only quibble I really have is with the term "wontfix". That tends to be a psychological hot button. I'd rather see less hostile resolutions like "CAN'T do" or "no need (and here's why: ___)", etc.

As for levels... I want to make sure I'm clear on what you're asking. Do you mean proposal/solution, or 2 levels for solutions? Maybe "levels" was the wrong word for me to use for solutions... "scope" might be better.

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

Dont forget, some solutions could be a blocker for a other solution. (not only within a single brainstorm) There should be a posibility to illustrate such a system of dependencies.

Perhaps only the posibility to add Links to other solutions in different fields without a comment.

• Blocks this
• is blocker of this
• this is needed before

So when a developer looks at a Solution it should be easy to find at Brainstorm what affects else.
Sometimes there could only be ONE of a couple of solutions.

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

Oh Helmuth... what you are describing would be ideal. I wonder if there's a resource who could implement this fairly quickly...

That also leads me to think Solutions should have their own comments at the actual Brainstorm. I don't know that having them here is the best way.

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

Ouh, you are again to fast for me. I answer you two posts in a single one. :)

Yes, you're right. But we've got this psychological hot button also at bugs. So it looks more identical. ;) But you're right. It was only a example. I don't like the WONTFIX there also. It's a hard decision. If this could become a canidate to implement it in the system, I'm sure, there is more time used to think about. :)

Mmh, yes. I'm sorry. I'm not a native speaker. I mean this:

Perhaps lets have 2 kind of Brainstorms.
"Brainstorming" (for Calendar and maps improvement) and "Solution search" (for detailed discussion for a Idea from a Brainstorm)

But I'm not sure. Could this really be a good Idea?


Yes, so the informations are spread all over the Site. Not a good solution. But the Brainstorm is not a forum. And a discussion on solution level is sometimes also not helpful. Which Solution is the best? Where would you discuss this? ;)

In my opinion it should only be possible to add comments from Moderators, Developers and NOKIA staff. Short things like: "We have a internal meeting on Friday to discuss this.", "To expensive to implement." or "We're working on it." - More official comments and feedback. :)

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

You miss out that at a "per solution" based system you dismiss the other solutions for the same issue.

Why make it more complicated? Texrat, the dependencies tree was a request a while ago...


For universal brainstorms like "enhance the phone-app" it could be:
Moderators should be able to group solutions attached to a problem and developers should be able to pick those groups to create a child-storm, telling which solutions they pick and which dependencies they create or fulfill. Also an option to put a solution back to the mothers stack should be given.
Sounds easy... and will work for any proposal

Helmuth's post sounds good to me but it is about a brainstorm that contains solutions which could all come true only (bit harsh but it feels like a oneway). Like my constellation proposal; now one guy ports "stellarium", one day someone could port "cyclo astro" as they are just two different use-cases but its gone for then because the brainstorm will be archived as implemented some day soon. Only for those cases helmuth's ideas are very good. But what we need is a system working easy and for all cases. Split move and so on... are missing for me the one point of where did it come from and where will it go.

Kathy, I will have a 2 days internal annual workshop quiet soon and will have a look onto those mindmaps and brainstorms made over the last years, maybe I will learn from processes made how to propose new ones that they better fit.

If the answer is not what you like to here... change the question.

Brainstorm needs to be an easy to use, understandable for a 6year old and easy to manage process.

Most of the proposers are likely not able to read sticky threads in a forum so please think of them as a 6year old. They drop their problem and think its done with it. It has to be easy like that; however, we need those people to check back for their proposals.

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

Here's the thing chemist: there is an inverse relationship between solution complexity and interface usability. Pack enough power under the hood, and the interface can be deceptively simple. Fail to do that, and you wind up with huge complexities-- not all visible in the interface. This very discussion is a consequence of unnecessary complexity caused by solution deficiencies. ;)

I think Helmuth is on the right track. I think there are two main things killing us here:

- difficulty/impossibility to manage the solutions the way they need to be managed (addressed in many points here)

- impossibility to assign solution ownerships in a project/task manner

Fixing those potentially fixes a great many things.

I don't see that...?

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

[...]
So it was not meant.

The benefit of a solution based system is that every idea is handled itself and no one is missed. And it does not only work with solutions which could all come true.
It should be easy to reject a solution because of "other solution for this problem got more votes" or "easier solution taken / to expensive".

This could also based on a automatic system. Only "Solutions" with more than 10 Votes and 66% positive of them could get in the proposal workflow. The other ones are rejected automatically. (by vote of the community)

When a Brainstorm is finished in real life. You have always to made the decitions on a Solution level. So the Brainstorm system and the workflow should work the same way.

The old question. One Brainstorm, 19 Solutions. The first, popular solution is implemented. So the Brainstorm reached the target? What about the other 18 solutions?

With this system it shouldn't be a problem to decide: "We would implement Solution #1, #3 and #8."
The rest of it are overlapping, blocking with one of the implemented, to expensive or some of them are still good ideas for the future.
I'm sure. It's going this way at the moment. But no one could see it at the current Brainstorm in a clear way.

To make it easier for everybody:
Call it Idea instead of Solution. Call it only a solution when the implementation is on scedule. :)

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

Beautiful. Sounds like semantics but as simple as it seems, semantics can trip up the best of processes.

Again, this supports the concept of solutions (or ideas) have semi-independent lifecycles.

We need to think of the model as project/task, and ask at each step: how would a project manager (or management tool) handle this?

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

Ack-- I really am dense. A picture just popped into my mind of how this should look, especially with regards to my own misunderstandings. I'll try to draw it up and post tonight.

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

I like it!

The way I was thinking was around the item I opened at the weekend:

The aim is 'improve the calendar'
The suggestions that follow are proximate objectives.

When the idea-shower stops (and we start getting fewer/no more suggestions) we move to methods/feasibility/resources. At that point someone has to take responsibility for moving on from generating ideas to finding solutions. In this case I can think of at least three methods, the choice from which which would depend on available resources. Which of the suggestions is feasible is going to depend on the method, which is in turn dependent on resources. (I'm not a coder, I have only those resources I can cajole from others).

The end result of the exploring, analysing and solving is that the community may produce a patch for the existing calendar, incorporating as many of the suggestions as is feasible. Or we may decide to create/enhance a second stand-alone calendar (One has already been suggested) so that it can be seamlessly integrated to Maemo5. Either way, we will have 'improved the calendar experience' even if certain individual objectives are not met.

In the worst case it will be found that the only method open is to persuade the clever people a Nokia to do this, in which case I shall brovrilise the suggestions down to a set of individual UI bugs, and submit them as such (and Andre will hunt me down with a shotgun). I will still have done my best to 'improve the calendar'.

That's why I like starting the process at the top with a woolly aim, then setting objectives, then looking at the methods/feasibility/resources. If you start at the lower level of objectives, you miss a great deal of creativity, and generate a sense of 'we opened all these ideas and got nowhere'.

The trick is to have someone pushing at the right points. Whether that's the task of the Brainstorm mods or the aim-starter is debatable: I think it should fall to the starter, because I think people can follow through on a good idea even if (like me) they have little idea how they're going to do it.

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

I think Kathy and I are sharing a brain. :D

The thing with TRUE brainstorming is that "no idea is a bad idea". We need to make that a religion.

I've done this in real life many times and not once did we ever start off hyperfocused. That came during the Norming stage.

True brainstorming means that not only can wild ideas irrelevant to the core topic pop up, they should. That's actually a hallmark of a receptive, empowered and creative group. It is up the the brainstorm facilitator(s) to make sure those potentially-orphaned ideas get grafted onto the appropriate tree or branch (depending on granularity) later.

The challenge, of course, is to make that work here. To help:

- identify a Brainstorm champion overall (is that Quim? should it be?)
- enable Brainstorm moderators to work both sides of the fence (I can't)
- draw up a model (I will start that)

EDIT: it also occurred to me that we should distinguish somehow between ideas that apply to current conditions vs those meant for future platforms, etc.

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

Short-circuiting the current brainstorming activity (since it seems to be converging on a consensus); the politics and technicalities of whether to change the Brainstorm Midgard module into more of a bug-tracker or whether to change a bug-tracker into more of a brainstorm and project management soluition will need to be looked at.

This also fits in, to a large extent, with Stskeeps' suggestion of a methodology for community development:

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=41092

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

Ah, nice. Havent noticed about it before. Thank you.

So, naivly spoken there could be in the future a bug tracker, a Brainstorm system and a project management system?

COOL! :cool:

Parallel developed with a lot of energy and overlapping in some points? :)

For each system other persons responsible or the same guys?

I hope everybody would understand what I'm trying to say. We dont need 3 totally different systems. We need in the best case one big solution.

The Project Management should be a system after brainstorming. And the bugs should be a system to send something back to the project management system afther something developed has leaved the project management. One system have to work with the other. Integrated or with some kind of interfaces from one system to the other. But it should look and feel like one big system. Not totally different like Brainstorm and Bugs at the moment.

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

After but connected.

Man... it seems we may be growing up. ;)

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

This thread has moved in a direction where afaik we are allready heading. => Integrated System - Bugtracker functions for dependencies and so on...

But what could we do for now to make this a better place? Access for the mods to brainstorm to have a hand there and make this subforum thread moderated would be my technical start. For a visible start I'd like to delete as many posts and merge as many posts as possible to get the discussions down to relevant stuff, maybe split out hijacking posts to new threads in the other fora or something alike would be handy too.

What do you think?

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

chemist I wish I had a general answer.

For me, I'm going to quit starting Brainstorms until I have a better idea of how it should work now and/or we have a better implementation of the tool & process. I'll do what I can to moderate in the meantime but I have to confess, I still am very fuzzy on how and what I should be doing...

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

Concrete things that could be done:

- Remove the irrelevant stickies in this forum and clean the ones staying.

- Review, polish and complete http://wiki.maemo.org/Brainstorm if you think it's not clear enough.

- Agree on a policy for "meta-brainstorms". I have a concrete problem with the Ovi Maps improvements brainstorm: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...386#post495386

- Prioritize the Brainstorm bugs and chase Oskari to fix the ones blocking us now.

There is always a way to make the tools work at your will. The problem we have now is not only because the tools don't do exactly what we want, but because we don't have one single opinion about the process and the tools to make it work.

It can be solved!

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

as long as we do not have the powers to move stuff around in brainstorm there will remain some of our problems, if stuff does not happen automagickly we need the possibility to do it by hand, at least. Voted at bugs...
Cleaned "Brainstorm News" (moved posts to new thread in Archive:News) and closed the thread, only mods are able to post there. What about http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33222 the "ask your questions here" sticky, should it be closed and moved to archives? Clean up and start from new?

For now I just delete entries not related and not useful for anyone from any thread. "Reason: noise", should I move them instead? is there a /dev/null? they still show up for moderators as "deleted" and might be moved to some dark place...

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

You wrote in this post:

In my opinion the biggest problem on the actually Brainstorm system is, the users understood the Brainstorming process different than the developers.

They understood a Brainstorm only as a Group of Ideas. Not a Idea and possible Solutions for this single one.

In my Posts #54 and #61 here in this tread I tryed to figure out how the system should work.
The Point: When you're finishing a Brainstorm in real life. You have always to made the decitions on a Idea (Solution) level. So the Brainstorm system and the workflow should work the same way.

So, when you're moving this OVI Maps meta brainstorm to under development you should decide on a solution level. Take every single solution and mark them as "under development", "rejected (because of)", "waiting (later to decide)", "blocking of #2" or something else.
I know, the Brainstorm system doesn't work this way at the moment. But in my opinion it should work like a fast Brainstorming in real life. Spit out a lot of Ideas. And at the end, take them all and look at it: "what should we keep and what's waste?" - And we should handle it this way, too.

A fast workaround for now could be the possibility for the moderators to split Brainstorms in several small Brainstorms and move the Solutions from one to a another Brainstorm with all Votes. (Moderators: Dont forget! There should be a Link in the old Brainstorm, redirecting the users to the new location!)

But, in my opinion this isn't a solution. What will we have in the end?
Millions of small Brainstorms, without any context to each other and on every single Brainstorm only the Solutions: "Nokia should do it", "The Community can do it", "We don't need it". An the Brainstorm itself is only: "Put the Button on the left instead of the right."


What do you think? Texrat commented this very positive. But I guess you're opinion is on this Topic essential. And there was no feedback from you. :)

Could a solutions based handling solve your problem with such large, out of control mass meta Brainstorms?

Can we handle it currently this way when you move it to "under development", block the posibility to edit it by the users and add the Comments / Decisions by the Developers in Bold to the Solutions which one is how handled?

We need a good workaround until we have a better working Brainstorm system. :)

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

I think I wrote somewhere that in my opinion brainstorms must be precise in order to be operative, more or less like bug reports. One brainstorm for one feature.

You say this ends up in thousands of brainstorms. I don't have a problem with this as long as those thousands of brainstorm have concrete solutions and focused discussions. There are ways to search what is interesting to you or to me.

By using meta brainstorms we end up with massive collections of mixed solutions and threads with hundreds of posts. Not much improvement compared to regular forum threads, if you ask me.

One of the reasons to defend meta-brainstorms is that they are the "real" brainstorms with a topic open and the possibility to list and vote just any idea. In my opinion such creative entropy is already provided by this forum. the evaluation of interest is also measured by the fact that plenty ideas jjst come and go, while others come back, persist, evetually get a focused discussion and someone willing to push them and get some tangible result out of them.

The brainstorm tool was not thought for meta-bugs. Now we have most of the top positions taken by the 6 more popular apps. The lack of a "Browser improvements" metabrainstorm can be probably interpreted as a proof that users are really happy with it. :) And we start having weird problems with duplicated. For instance: what to do with the solutions about Calendar-Contacts integration that can be found in a metabrainstorm and a specific brainstorm?

Having meta-brainstorms is probably an indirect way to stop the creation of specific brainstorms in that area since they might look like duplicates of sorts.

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

It's often hard to have a problem with something that hasn't happened yet, Quim. ;)

I am very certain that soon after we move to a one-to-one model, that problem will manifest itself in quick and ugly fashion.

But as I said before I'll get on board for now. My certainty does not automatically translate to fact, and I could very well be unnecessarily concerned.

Regardless, I'm still designing an alternative best-case scenario. It's just taking a while.

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

Quim is making a lot of sense here. We only complicate our lives by trying to make a task-oriented tool like brainstorm into a freesketch notepad. Computers and databases excel at ordering and tracking and sorting a multitude of well-defined entries, but not so much when the structure of the entries is arbitrary.

I'm in favor of using a scalpel here. Keep brainstorms about a single problem, with a number of equally focused solutions. That has the added benefit of requiring the creator of the entry to clearly define the problem so that the whole process will proceed more smoothly.

I wouldn't worry about losing solutions. The good thing about solutions in our Brainstorm is that the owner of the solution will take care of it: he'll be an advocate of the solution wherever it is useful.

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

At the risk of being pedantic: the discussion is moving the tool away from true brainstorming. If brainstorming-to-solutions is not our actual goal, then changing the name would clarify the purpose.

Oh, and I sure hope no one thinks I was in any way advocating a "free sketch notepad". Quite the opposite at the solution side.

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

I'm not attached to the name. t.m.o is a brainstorm, so we can call what bubbles up into the "Brainstorm" tool whatever you like.

I think we need to be careful not to lose track of the goal. Are we trying to provide a tool to propose and manage and direct improvements as a community? Or a way to discuss them? We've got the latter in t.m.o. We need an effective former.

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

I'm convinced we're doing it wrong altogether. As I proposed before: use THIS subforum as the noisy Brainstorm portion, where proposals/ideas/solutions are kicked around until something useful emerges. THEN ferry that result over to the actual Brainstorm tool.

tmo subforum: Forming/Storming
Brainstorm tool: Norming/Performing

Re: Brainstorm - Open Discussion
 

I've lost track of why we're doing it the way we're doing it, and what we were doing before, but that sounds ok. Just as long as what goes into the Brainstorm tool is incisively defined and focused... i have my doubts that can happen without requiring a "dress rehearsal" in the subforum (and iirc that's why we're doing it the way we are now). The problem is that things are largely out of our hands once people take it to the Brainstorm tool. When i think about solutions i always come back to the need for "Brainstorm champions" that actually make and maintain the proposals to maintain some degree of order in the tool.