Re: Vote for quick release of Maemo 6 (N900 PR 1.1 disappointing)
 

Go to the wiki and edit the list of applications you're missing.
Instead of clueless whining, do contribute something.

On the positive side, the influx of da fonez streetboyz is clearly a sign of increased marketshare :D

Re: Vote for quick release of Maemo 6 (N900 PR 1.1 disappointing)
 

i dont agree with a lot of comments made in this thread, but i fully agree with the above statement, N900 should be upgrade able to maemo 6
hardware wise this cant be a big problem, multi touch i can live without.

but it cant be that 1 itteration and we already loose the upgrade ability, this alwas annoyed me in the S60 world. 3 iterations later, and then drop it, ok but not 1 or 2..

if nokia does that (again) i think i will look at what android can give me because at least there i know if i buy a high end device now, i can upgrade for quite sometime.

Re: Vote for quick release of Maemo 6 (N900 PR 1.1 disappointing)
 

You lack a degree in business, apparently. :p

Nobody sprints. It's called marketing. If Nokia sprints and pushes for the very latest, the costs of such an endeavor would be massive, depleting its R&D budget and going ahead for the next 3-6 months. While recuperating, the marathon runners slowly creep up on you and bypass you.

Sooner or later, the efforts put in R&D is going to average out over hops and you realize that to push out a chip before its time you paid thrice. Overall, they have the cash to push forward while you hopelessly huff and puff, panting behind because all your costs are triple and there's no way N900 is going to outsell iPhone by a 400% margin.

Leaping is bad. Slow and steady wins the race. It's a business, and the race is commercial. In the end, whoever has the cash has the technology, the people and the know-how.

Ever saw the Google HDD and CPU storage? They use old, second hand machines. Nokia builds 5$ phones and the 1100 is the best phone ever - sporting two damned pixels and a bad keyboard. The next best seller is the 3310 that has 3 pixels and up/down/ok, it's heavy and stupid. The next best seller ...

It's all about running fastest IF you can keep up and finish the race.

Technological business is NOTHING like a sprint and EVERYTHING like a marathon.

Re: Vote for quick release of Maemo 6 (N900 PR 1.1 disappointing)
 

I agree - if Nokia leave me high and dry with the N900 on maemo 5 with little or no support because they release an incompatible maemo 6, I will leave them high and dry and won't be back.

^ should be workable on N900. If thing change like screens etc, make alternative drivers. How hard can it be?!

Re: Vote for quick release of Maemo 6 (N900 PR 1.1 disappointing)
 

Whilst awaiting delivery of my N900 (tomorrow) I'm now seriously wondering whether I did the right thing and whether I should just return it and switch to a platform that at least is supported longer-term

ie Nexus One or followons

Google is proving it will upgrade handsets to newer OS versions

Nokia's in danger of breaking maemo just as it's getting buy-in. This constant switch to the next new thing really gets me.

I got burnt by the N96 dropping VoIP. Now I'm worrying this is happening here.

I have a couple/weeks to return (if unused). Ummm.

Re: Vote for quick release of Maemo 6 (N900 PR 1.1 disappointing)
 

Not VERY hard. But for a few people leaving, there' be few people upgrading to N910. So, you know.

Also, i thought that M6 will run on N900, confirmed by someone at Nokia a few threads back?

Re: Vote for quick release of Maemo 6 (N900 PR 1.1 disappointing)
 

Looks like they've heard you: http://events.nokia.com/ovimaps
(coming to N900 soon looks like)

Re: Vote for quick release of Maemo 6 (N900 PR 1.1 disappointing)
 

Last I heard it won't.
M6 will have support for multitouch (brrr) whereas the N900 hardware does not.
They will not release the Maemo 6 OS that's designed around multitouch onto a device that does not support it.

But, they are helping the community get around it. So most probably we'll see Maemo 6 on the N900 thanks to.. us.

Aniello

Re: Vote for quick release of Maemo 6 (N900 PR 1.1 disappointing)
 

Please not!
They should invest more time to fix the annoying bugs in the released Maemo5 before they spit out a Maemo6.

Many, many things like the eMail IMAP Bug and the one from my signature are targeted to Maemo6. This is not a good idea. We've payed for the devices NOW. But a early release of Maemo6 is not a solution.

Re: Vote for quick release of Maemo 6 (N900 PR 1.1 disappointing)
 

You do realize that working on Maemo 6 means bring Maemo 5 forward, do you?
It's not a new entity.

Bugs files for Maemo 5 will likely be fixed into Maemo 6 as well as it's a evolution of Maemo 5.
What will change will be the UI, based on Qt and with new interaction and new widgets... but the core is based on Maemo 5 with all the fixes.

Re: Vote for quick release of Maemo 6 (PR 1.1 disappointing)
 

The MSN plugin works fine for me... for a long time now... Sometimes I have a "network error" switching from GPRS to wifi, but I can get around that by setting my status to offline, then switching networks, then going back online.

Re: Vote for quick release of Maemo 6 (N900 PR 1.1 disappointing)
 

If there's time. Hence the rushing. Or lack thereof IMO.

Re: Vote for quick release of Maemo 6 (N900 PR 1.1 disappointing)
 

Well, they are still working on PR1.2, plenty of bug fixing going on if you ask me.

Re: Vote for quick release of Maemo 6 (N900 PR 1.1 disappointing)
 

Guys,
I am very tired to wait will Nokia or will not do this or that.

I used to use E90, which hardware was perfect, but Nokia was thinking about future deviced and left E90. Now maybe it will happened with N900.

It is very strange how big company can not teach from his own mistakes.

I know that users of E90 and N900 in this case are making a very small marketshare for Nokia, but we are high-end users and we can help and make this devices better. And also we can help for making overal name of Nokia better as big innovative company.

Nokia, on the other hand is trying to save his overall market share with pushing cheep devices. Believe me, the decision-making prosses in cheap devise market is depending of the thing how is the look of the device and most of the people don1t give a s*** is there a OS, is it Symbian, Apple, WebOS or else. What I am trying to tell is that low end users`s decision to by a phone is not a logic process. So these people today can buy Nokia, tomorrow whey will use Samsung, the day after tomorrow - SonyEricsson, then iPhone, and so on.

The high end users are more dependent and trustful to the phone maker which they are using today. They were making a real investigation for most of the features of the device, possibility of future upgrade, also what is the competition serving. So present Nokia high end users if they are sattisfy from Nokia it is more likely to buy his next Nokia device.

I am tire of being a test user with my old E90 and now with my present N900.

I am really dissapointed from Nokia.
If nothing good is happened in next couple of years I am pretty sure that N900 will be my last Nokia device.

Regards.

Re: Vote for quick release of Maemo 6 (N900 PR 1.1 disappointing)
 

There's a post here somewhere with the todo-fixme list for Android. It's a s big as N900's. There is no escaping this, they all do that ever since the device can be flashed at home at no cost.

You can berate Nokia and move - see if I care - but if you think you'll be spared you are mistaken. Do you think we like it up the ? It's just that it's still up there no matter where you go. Except I like how the Nokia built the N900 more than I like the HD2, e.g.

I'm not a fanboy. Every time I scout for a new device I look all over. I saved money for the HD2 for 3 months before Nokia announced N900 and the hardware swayed me.

I'm a Windows developer, have been for years, ever since there was Windows and tools to develop. Don't you think I would have liked to write my own than to sit here begging for someone else's free time?

I chose this. You are free to choose whatever you want. Just don't switch over to find out you've been had - and with lost money on a swap. Look before you leap, that's all I'm saying. It's good advice.

Re: Vote for quick release of Maemo 6 (N900 PR 1.1 disappointing)
 

ndi,

You are right - we are jumping in new devices without knowleadge will they be develop or will not.

But as you know Nokia never tells their plans.
We are not a fortune-tellers and don`t know what will come. We just believe that when buy good device from world`s number one phone manufacturer ( still ) we will face same good attitude from him.

That`s all.

Regards.

Re: Vote for quick release of Maemo 6 (N900 PR 1.1 disappointing)
 

At risk of feeding some trolls here...


What Nokia do not seem to understand is the success of a platform/os is largely determined by what applications are available for it.

I'm not suggesting or in-fact agreeing with the original poster who started this thread.

Considering how many apps were available at launch was pretty impressive. When Goggle launched the Android platform a couple of years ago only a handful of apps were available at the time.


What I've just said seems to contradict my first paragraph but I Nokia need to take a long-term view of this.

If the next version of maemo is not compatible with the n900 then users and app developers are going to be p***** off with Nokia.

Why?
It means tweaking your developed app to run properly on the next version of maemo when you could be spending that time improving your app.

If maemo 6 will not run on the n900 and you are a current owner you will have to buy a new device and start your nice app collection from scratch.

If Nokia had any sense of the current smartphone market (and it's long-term future) Nokia would ensure that the maemo 6 platform will also run on the n900.

If Nokia cannot make maemo 6 backward-compatible and force n900 users to buy a new phone (the n900 here is £500ish) to benefit from the new apps then Nokia will be forced-out of the smartphone market entirely. Apple and Google will eat Nokia's dwindling marketshare instead.

I only bought my n900 in December last year. If Nokia want me to buy a new phone to get the latest version of maemo then I will simply go elsewhere.
If Nokia expect people to buy a £500 phone and 9-12 months later buy another phone at £500 then the management at Nokia are more ******ed than I thought.

If Nokia want to grow marketshare and remain as a big player in the mobile phone industry:
1) Ensure the previous phone can run the new updated os
2) Keep user and developers happy - user's library of applications will grow and allow user's to take the applications to the new phone too
3) This will attract more developers and more users to Nokia maemo-based devices
4) Third-party app developers may gain the confidence to charge users for apps if they wanted to. Nokia get revenue stream.

Re: Vote for quick release of Maemo 6 (N900 PR 1.1 disappointing)
 

No quick releases of anything!

Take the time to do it right first time round.

I would have waited longer for the n900 if it meant it would be a more stable device and "3" sim card support would have been included.

It would have also meant less intrusive maemo firmware update and more enhancement
Currently when you apply the maemo firmware update you cannot roll it back if you weren't happy with it. Apparently the "3" sim card support changes the firmware in the phone/modem hardware (you cannot change this back). If you restore the original maemo firmware you lose the ability to make phone calls as a result of this.

Relase when it is ready. Not by pressure from impatient users.

Re: Vote for quick release of Maemo 6 (N900 PR 1.1 disappointing)
 

Couldn`t be more agree with you!
Regards.

Re: Vote for quick release of Maemo 6 (PR 1.1 disappointing)
 

Interesting points, but they illustrate how personal the perception is when it comes to how complete a phone is. Custom profiles and ringtones are all Im missing at the moment. Like everyone else, I rushed to the Ovi store and downloaded lots as well as maemo downloads, but most of it I haven't kept as the browser is enough for me - that in my opinion is the one killer app for the n900 because it is just so good. My guess is that the n900 will never have 1000's of apps as they just aren't needed, yes there will be some great ones, but with conversations and the browser, there doesn't need to be that many as the phone already has alot of functionality buit in.
Now Im kicking myself for staying with Windows Mobile for so long - the n900 is a breath of fresh air..

Re: Vote for quick release of Maemo 6 (PR 1.1 disappointing)
 

There's an app that lets you create more profiles. (Edit: my bad, it's still in development repositories. But hey, if you miss them THAT much.... Also, big red warning here if you decide to go commando and install.)

As for ringtones, I don't miss them AT ALL. What I really want is the voice kit that announced the caller. You know, RING! It's that guy again! Ring!

IMO, that's way better, no custom ringtones, one ringtone so you know when it's your phone, no memorizing several files, you know. Works on new contacts, too.

However, to each his/her own.

Re: Vote for quick release of Maemo 6 (N900 PR 1.1 disappointing)
 

IRC, access to the SIM card operator menu is missing, too. Does anyone know how to do it?

Re: Vote for quick release of Maemo 6 (N900 PR 1.1 disappointing)
 

What you describe is one way to do it. However, I think market expectations are changing to faster and more frequent upgrades.

One used to follow a waterfall development model, specifying requirements, developing the sw, testing, fixing bugs, more testing, more bug fixing etc. Once you're ready, a lot of time has gone by, and the delivered functionality based on original specs will be outdated and surpassed by faster moving competitors.

So the dev approach for cutting edge devices was changed a while a go to a more agile process, giving us faster updates, more trial and error, more beta devices, at the cost of more bugs in the experienced by the end user.

For a device like the N900 based on Linux, supported by a community, I definitely prefer a fast update cycle with the risk of experiencing more bugs. To a big degree I bought the N900 for its potential and not for the at the time available function set. I was okay once I saw that my basic requirements were fulfilled.

But I do want new features, functions, apps, features steadily streaming to my device.

Now, this might a nightmare for some (think corporate users on closely managed networks), but software heaven for me.

Re: Vote for quick release of Maemo 6 (N900 PR 1.1 disappointing)
 

I see no evidence of that at all. Now, you may question how quickly they're bringing out tools integration between Qt Creator and MADDE; but everything I've seen of and heard from Nokia says they know the reinforcement cycle of users->developers->applications->users->...

They've even changed the strategy - with Qt 4.6 now being an officially supported beta for Maemo 5; rather than Qt being official only in Harmattan.

Re: Vote for quick release of Maemo 6 (N900 PR 1.1 disappointing)
 

I've been a Debian user for about 10 years, a Linux user for 15, and a computer user for 20 (I'm 30, myself). I've seen a lot of devices and OSes come and go (Sharp Zaurus C7x0, Palm 5, Kyocera's first palm smartphone, IBM PS/2 with microchannel, DOS/Novell, OS/2, Win95, NT4, QNX) ....

One thing that strikes me about the n900/Maemo is that its team seems to be composed of people who really, really get it. They get versioning. They get package and update distribution. They get openness. They get community. And they seem to really get the engineering/marketing compromise.

Honestly, I've only had my n900 for about a week now, but virtually everything I've played with is done they way I - as a Unix user with 15 years experience - think it should be done. None of this "oh crap... this is gonna come back to haunt us in a year" or inexplicable configuration choices. No silly/lazy hacks. No quirks. A few bugs, sure. But it's only been out for a couple months.

The major decisions seem to have been made by people who have "been there, done that." Library choices, base packages, the sound engine, the extras repository, the SDK..

It's downright exciting thinking about the possibilities here.

If Nokia's marketing guys play it right, Maemo could be the single unified handheld device operating system. There is almost no long-term reason to choose another OS. There are simply no long-term advantages to anything else except current app support.

Maemo is well established (Debian, X11, plus Nokia did their job right), it's open and free to implement (less of course Nokia's quite excellent proprietary extensions, giving them a head start and competitive advantage), rock solid (crashes should be obsolete; generally speaking, Linux doesn't crash). Secure, extensible, and open.

Think about it: we've seen the coming and going of DOS, OS/2, Windows 9x, QNX, PalmOS (ie. Garnet), non-BSD MacOS, and a whole host of other OSes.

The Linux stack (kernel + GNU userspace + X11) has outlived all of them. And that's what Maemo is based on.

It's a good time to be an engineer. :)

So anyway, to the original poster... relax a little. If this device isn't polished enough for you, and lacks the apps you need, sell your device and get something else. There are lots of great devices out there.

Right now Maemo represents an incredible potential, and for many - like me - literally a dream come true. A proper functioning pocket unix system.

Re: Vote for quick release of Maemo 6 (N900 PR 1.1 disappointing)
 

I completely agree with you in this nice summary. Especially the the first point is a very important issue. Other manufacturers also offer new OS versions to their customers - and heck I would even pay 5$ for a maemo 6 upgrade (yeah I know: it's OpenSource - but porting to the N900 might cost money).

I really hope that Nokia recognizes that the Smartphone-market is changing. I am not gonna buy a new device just to get a new OS version.
I believe that sales numbers for the N9xx (whatever it might be called) would probably not decrease if Nokia would offer an update to Maemo 6 to N900 users. I think showing their customers that devices get long-term support and updates makes those devices even more attractive.

If people want new hardware features (multitouch, better camera, ...) they should buy a new device. But if people only want a new OS they should be able to stick with their current device (as long as it is not older than 2 or 3 years).

Re: Vote for quick release of Maemo 6 (PR 1.1 disappointing)
 

I use mine for:
remote pc (vncviewer)
listen to music (in car with fm transmitter)
surf the internet
Use IRC chat (irssi)
Programming (python)
Weather (omweather)
exercise (pedometer)
text editing (leafpad)
mucking about with Linux (easydeb)
watch movies & tv shows (mplayer)
ebooks (PDF viewer)
read comics (cbrPager)
play gba & gbc games
play Ur-Quan Masters (star control 2)
Use wii controller for games
a torch! (moodlight)
taking photos
text messaging
and last but not least - even as a phone!

OK - I admit the phone "app" lacks a few features but speaking to people while mobile - it works very well.

No amount of updating is going to help you.

Re: Vote for quick release of Maemo 6 (N900 PR 1.1 disappointing)
 

Six months after the N900 comes out I have to buy a brand new device to have the latest os?

I'm sorry Nokia but this will NOT happen. Are you people ******ed?

Bye bye Nokia.

Re: Vote for quick release of Maemo 6 (N900 PR 1.1 disappointing)
 

nokia could release it for the n900 and ill pay for it. not a problem.

the N910 will be very appealing as it would support multitouch and other features. what are they worried about?????? no1 in Australia even has the n900 except very a very small group of people. not sold here. i doubt it would impact their sales if they release MeeGo for the n900 as the n910 is a more appealing device anyway and a lot of people will probably sell their n900 for the n910 which would be a better phone. who knows i might get the n910 if its any good with a multitouch resistive screen, oo nice.

this is all about looking after us. apple still support the first gen iphone with the latest OS. Microsoft sell OS upgrades but nokia is still lagging behind. this would probably create more business for nokia if they upgraded their OS for older phones for free or for a fee.

think about it. if they don't release it for the n900 even though most apps will run on QT it will just put people off the way we get shelved by nokia. If nokia do deiced to change the way they do things it would be good business move overall, it would create immense loyalty and support towards nokia.

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44926

look at the poll on my thread. 25% of people said "If there is No support for MeeGo on the N900 ill never want to own a nokia again"

this is not because we cant run the same apps as the N910 running MeeGo will have but its the fact that nokia continually shelves their phones and drops support. the only reason why i stay with nokia is because they are innovative and create high quality high end phones (not since the N95). one day another vendor will take over and nokia will suffer. trust me the day will come, the market is changing so fast. look at what the iphone did out of nowhere. nokia keep changing and changing and never perfect an OS, Device or market them properly. look at the iphones apps store, you have to admit its impressive with the amount of variety. this is all because they played it smart and unified everything.

im not saying the iphone is better. but the general public, like joe down the road get put off by nokia. there is not much support. nokia need to unify everything to get customer confidence to buy the device. its all marketing. we know the nokia n900 is an amazing machine but the average joe doesn't, they still see the iphone as a better device. imagine me trying to explain to a 14 year old girl who owns a iphone what QT is?



even if the n900 runs the latest MeeGo OS from now and to the future i will still want to upgrade my device. maybe i want a thinner phone? or multitouch? see what i mean. everyone is supported and everyone is happy no complaining. Love for nokia will grow and hate for apple will grow from their shitty closed OS lol. Nokia could do some damage, they have a full open universe what are they doing, the average joe doesn't even know or understand how huge this is. maemo is even more open then andriod. nokia show the word the potential of what can be done!!!!!!!!!


the funny thing is, my dumb iphone user friends tried to convince me the iphone is better. they done understand what multitasking, opensource arrararararraraa is. see these are the kinds of people who buy phones. not many knowledgeable people out there, but those simple people make companys like Apple super powers and in turn creates a whole new universe IE: heaps of bluddy apps on cydia and the app store

Re: Vote for quick release of Maemo 6 (PR 1.1 disappointing)
 

Exactly! Enjoy the device and OS you have in your hands right now, file bugs for the parts you find disappointing (after checking for duplicates) and stop worrying about future versions.