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-   Nokia N900 (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=44)
-   -   Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44155)

danramos 2010-02-11 22:07
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 521881)
Progress comes from constructive criticism, not abject whining.
In principle, I agree.. however, even the whining is constructive if you approach it correctly. You cannot expect everyone to have a mind for constructive criticism--some people can experience something, say driving a car, and explain precisely the problem they seem to feel to be the problem. Others, on the other hand, can drive the same vehicle and claim that they simply didn't like the car but lack the articulation of language or the experience to be able to place their finger on precisely the details that could be improved to make the vehicle a much better drive. Ultimately, their opinion (or whining, as you put it) might still be perfectly valid. The object SHOULD be to persuade customers with such a good experience that whining of any sort should be at a minimum despite their ability to articulate the experience into words.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jakiman (Post 521897)
I disagree. There usually is a very good reason why people whine.
You cannot expect all great ideas to come from nice and constructive comments.
You summarized my point, precisely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 521907)
Well, I'm only speaking from personal experience of course. I've seen that people who can effect improvements tend to tune out whiners because they offer little substance and a lot of noise. Therein lies the difference with and advantage of constructive criticism.
Or, to look at it another way, the people who can effect improvements might need to improve their ability to understand the whining better. After all, the mission SHOULD be to provide customers (as many as possible) with what they want--it should not be to provide only the most articulate of them with what they want. ...unless, that's your business model (business to business, for instance)... but with the N900, I sincerely doubt that business-to-business is its main goal, given its shortcomings as a phone and with Outlook integration, for instance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roger_27 (Post 521988)
funny funny!!

guess one wrong post and I get eternal damnation!
I saw that! I couldn't believe people would be so nasty.. but I saw it.
On the other hand, maybe they were just trying to welcome you and promote Hell, Michigan.

Brank 2010-02-11 22:09
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
I welcome the criticism, but storming in to make a thread about how **** this device is according to you while you haven't taken the time before to find out what it can and can't do, that's just a waste of everyones time.

If you have to return this device because you don't like it, you haven't done your research on it, and have just gone for something shiny. Too bad you only saw a raw diamond, but it's getting refined.
If you're a business user you probably don't have time to wait for the refinement or then you have the means to keep this baby in your top drawer waiting for its glorious future, and have another business phone in use until then.

ot but kudos to the mods who have been making awesome tags today for pages :)

mullf 2010-02-11 22:10
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 522000)
I saw that! I couldn't believe people would be so nasty.. but I saw it.
That was a joke, and meant to be connected to the tag that followed it, as one sentence.

Texrat 2010-02-11 22:11
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 522000)
Or, to look at it another way, the people who can effect improvements might need to improve their ability to understand the whining better. After all, the mission SHOULD be to provide customers (as many as possible) with what they want
In principle, I agree-- with the caveat that when signal-to-noise favors noise by a significant margin, you are better off focusing precious time on contributors who already have the necessary skills and/or the willingness to refine their approach. I'm betting you'll find that this is the rule in practice. I've never known anyone in a problem-solving position who could afford to process every single input-- especially the noisiest ones.

As far as the "as many as possible" part goes, check into the philosophy of "firing your troublesome customers". ;)

fatalsaint 2010-02-11 22:15
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 522000)
In principle, I agree.. however, even the whining is constructive if you approach it correctly. You cannot expect everyone to have a mind for constructive criticism--some people can experience something, say driving a car, and explain precisely the problem they seem to feel to be the problem. Others, on the other hand, can drive the same vehicle and claim that they simply didn't like the car but lack the articulation of language or the experience to be able to place their finger on precisely the details that could be improved to make the vehicle a much better drive. Ultimately, their opinion (or whining, as you put it) might still be perfectly valid. The object SHOULD be to persuade customers with such a good experience that whining of any sort should be at a minimum despite their ability to articulate the experience into words.
Dan.. while I think I do understand the point you're trying to make.. and have tried to make many, many times over the course of many, many "whining" threads.. You're still missing one very important thing.

If the person just doesn't like the car and the other person says "Can you tell me why?" and the other person just sits there "Well.. it just doesn't FEEL right.. you know when you push on the clutch, or shift on this.. it's just not right."

That's fine...

However.. if that person then hangs around that car.. and every person getting into the car they sit there going "This car sucks, you can't shift, the seat feels like ****, and the manufacturer eats babies"...

Well - no - there is nothing useful about that. And *that* seems to be the problem we have on these forums.

As I've said many, many times - I don't mind when people complain. They can complain in a well thought out, very detailed way - or a very ignorant (as in lack of knowledge) but friendly way.. and I don't care.

When they complain belligerently I get annoyed.. but not hostile.

When they complain again.. and again.. and again.. and insist on quoting every person that has something *good* to say about the N900 (car) and constantly regurgitate their same complaints again, and again....

No. That's not useful. It's downright annoying and ridiculous.

Although.. I can't say the OP was all that useful either.. but I understand the point - and even agree to a certain point.. but wasn't the best approach IMHO.

HumanPenguin 2010-02-11 22:24
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RevdKathy (Post 521810)
I'll try hard to overlook the sexism. I think your underlying motivation is probably good: you're right that there will always be people who get the newest thing only to complain at what it won't do. (I have yet to get the n900 to make me a cup of tea in bed in the morning).

But remember when you paint with a broad brush, you create boxes that actually don't fit real people. Almost everyone reading what you have said will find some reason it doesn't fit them (in my case, I'm female, and while I run devices into the ground its with work. I don't 'just break' them.)

The pleas for less unconstructive whining (note, that's not constructive suggestions and the like) is well made, though.
What havent you seen fTeasMaid in extras-devel yet. It lacks a little functionality like

.fillTheKettle()
.turnKettleOn()
.findTeaBags()
.steepTea()

But we do have the tea steeping timer and are working on embedding it into the app.

It has a long way to go but we are ahead of the iPhone app. (I just gave it a name)

danramos 2010-02-11 22:25
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 522005)
In principle, I agree-- with the caveat that when signal-to-noise favors noise by a significant margin, you are better off focusing precious time on contributors who already have the necessary skills and/or the willingness to refine their approach. I'm betting you'll find that this is the rule in practice. I've never known anyone in a problem-solving position who could afford to process every single input-- especially the noisiest ones.

As far as the "as many as possible" part goes, check into the philosophy of "firing your troublesome customers". ;)
I don't entirely agree with that philosophy. Sometimes it means that the noise to signal ratio IS a part of the message.

"Firing your troublesome customers?" You mean like...
http://consumerist.com/2008/03/leaks...-document.html
or heck..
http://consumerist.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt...tag=best%20buy

You want Nokia to be the Best Buy of manufacturing? :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatalsaint (Post 522012)
However.. if that person then hangs around that car.. and every person getting into the car they sit there going "This car sucks, you can't shift, the seat feels like ****, and the manufacturer eats babies"...
Well, that's not whining--that's just being a jerk and slandering. Whining is when you've tried it and don't like it and complain.. or even if you didn't try it, but it's lacking what you wanted and you complain about THAT. The latter is actually USEFUL if you bother to listen, the example you gave isn't useful in almost any circumstance and doesn't really fit the criteria of 'whining' so much as undermining.

fatalsaint 2010-02-11 22:30
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 522024)
Well, that's not whining--that's just being a jerk and slandering. Whining is when you've tried it and don't like it and complain.. or even if you didn't try it, but it's lacking what you wanted and you complain about THAT. The latter is actually USEFUL if you bother to listen, the example you gave isn't useful in almost any circumstance and doesn't really fit the criteria of 'whining' so much as undermining.
In this forum.. I don't see a difference. I don't attack threads where someone is "whining" if that's the only place I've seen them in...

If I've seen them in a dozen different threads.. and they said the same thing in all of them... that's when it starts to really get annoying. And I am pretty sure that's where most of the people attacking "whining" are really coming from.

roger_27 2010-02-11 22:31
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
what if you complain about people who whine about people who complain? :p

that is exactly where I was coming from fatal saint

Arrancamos 2010-02-11 22:39
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
Learn to read between lines.
Try to understand other ppl view.
Take the positive ideas from other ppl feedback.
And do sum. mean write in a positive way, mean do construct!

Did this post sum o not sum? uhmmm

waleed786 2010-02-11 22:44
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
just because people post negative things of the n900 doesnt mean theyre complaining. Unless you are the CEO of nokia, it really shouldnt bother you. A lot of people have very constructive criticism and its helpful for all of us. Sometimes when I have problems with my n900 im hesitant to make a thread because I know people like you (and others) will jump all over it. I understand where your going with this but we shouldnt discourage people from posting their criticism, your not forced to read all the threads here.

EDIT: If you're talking about people like orangebox, then ignore everything I wrote, ill switch sides (although he did have some useful info once in a while)

Guber99 2010-02-11 22:48
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
Another Nokia apologizer will become extinct

danramos 2010-02-11 23:00
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by waleed786 (Post 522051)
just because people post negative things of the n900 doesnt mean theyre complaining. Unless you are the CEO of nokia, it really shouldnt bother you. A lot of people have very constructive criticism and its helpful for all of us. Sometimes when I have problems with my n900 im hesitant to make a thread because I know people like you (and others) will jump all over it. I understand where your going with this but we shouldnt discourage people from posting their criticism, your not forced to read all the threads here.
I've done my share of complaining about the N900 and I don't have one, either.. but I was looking forward to buying a newer device to replace my N800 and the N900 is sorely lacking as a replacement and is, instead, a whole other device that I didn't want. I whine.. a lot. :) But I would suggest that it's constructive and reflects at least a good number of the maemo users that intentionally purchased Internet Tablets (pocket computers) and weren't trying to buy a phone (which, it would seem, some are trying to convince me the N900 isn't).

But, that said, I am interested to see what it DOES have and I simply sit in wait and hope for Nokia to make something more along the lines of what I want, and maybe a small business might like, in a price range I can accept for the purposes of a computing-first device that should be competing against netbooks rather than cell phones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waleed786 (Post 522051)
EDIT: If you're talking about people like orangebox, then ignore everything I wrote, ill switch sides (although he did have some useful info once in a while)
Well, OrangeBox was comedic relief. He was neither constructive nor accurate in anything he ever said, despite his claimed degrees and certifications to which you were supposed to prostrate and defer all your own knowledge and opinion to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guber99 (Post 522059)
Another Nokia apologizer will become extinct
Were you, or have you ever been, a Nokia apologizer?

fatalsaint 2010-02-11 23:01
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by waleed786 (Post 522051)
EDIT: If you're talking about people like orangebox, then ignore everything I wrote, ill switch sides (although he did have some useful info once in a while)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guber99 (Post 522059)
Another Nokia apologizer will become extinct


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yes.

ETA:
Quote:
Sometimes when I have problems with my n900 im hesitant to make a thread because I know people like you (and others) will jump all over it.
I am not sure if you were directing that at me.. but I don't jump on people - as I said - that open threads with problems. I'll link them to other threads with the same problem, if thats the case. It's when I see you posting your problems into unrelated threads, or just to post, or creating 6 threads with the same complaint.. I start to get short.

waleed786 2010-02-11 23:12
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatalsaint (Post 522082)
I am not sure if you were directing that at me
i wasnt directing it at anyone specifically, just people in general

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatalsaint (Post 522082)
.. but I don't jump on people - as I said - that open threads with problems. I'll link them to other threads with the same problem, if thats the case. It's when I see you posting your problems into unrelated threads, or just to post, or creating 6 threads with the same complaint.. I start to get short.
I agree with that, its probably a lot more frustrating for you as a mod/admin (or whatever you are) and yea multiple threads by the same person with the same topic is stupid too, regardless of it being a complaint or a compliment

fatalsaint 2010-02-11 23:17
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by waleed786 (Post 522096)
I agree with that, its probably a lot more frustrating for you as a mod/admin (or whatever you are) and yea multiple threads by the same person with the same topic is stupid too, regardless of it being a complaint or a compliment
I can definitely agree with that. I'm actually neither a mod nor admin - I'm just one of the psychotics around here that tend to like to help people just for the sake of helping people. I don't own an N900 but already know more about it's inner workings than some people who have had it since it came out.

I scan the "New Posts" all day and clean out as much as I can but I'm wayyy behind right now. Something like 400 threads.

But for me.. it's hard to help people in the middle of all the crap threads that get started.. it makes me get really picky about which ones I pay attention to and which I dont just by the title of the thread which is unfortunate - because someone people just make bad titles. Therefore they tend to go without help from some of us that try just because their title was too much like some other flame-fest going on.

However, back on your bold section: Because this is a Maemo forum, for the Maemo OS, I'm more forgiving of post after post of "N900 rules man!", even though I agree whole-heatedly it's useless, than I am of "N900 sucks a**!". The former, while useless, still has a positive environment and feel to it - the latter is simply negative, creates negative opinions in the readers, makes people defensive - and historically - causes flamewars. A lot more than the former, anyway.

Texrat 2010-02-11 23:49
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
Apparently the term "whining" is a victim of semantics. I'll get off the axle. ;)

bull81 2010-02-11 23:51
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
Finlly someone wrote what i had in mind for a while!!!

I realy like this phone but evry time i check recent topics i get more and more depresed because of the 'i want to complein to feel better' threat

I think we have clear picture abut known issus so if you want to complain AGAIN abut something that IS KNOWN, please do it on difrent forum.
I think i got to emotional, but it was really anoying me as well.

Many thanks for all of you who work so hard to make this phone better dispite of all the compleins!

Guber99 2010-02-11 23:54
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 522153)
Apparently the term "whining" is a victim of semantics. I'll get off the axle. ;)
Complaints are good. All of these comments should let nokia know that business as usual doesnt cut it. Selling millions of pennys to subcontinent that can not afford good phones and are used to crappy customer service will not cut it in other parts of the world

Texrat 2010-02-11 23:55
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
Wow, Goober, that actually made some sense! Congratulations.

qole 2010-02-11 23:56
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RevdKathy (Post 521810)
...there will always be people who get the newest thing only to complain at what it won't do. (I have yet to get the n900 to make me a cup of tea in bed in the morning)...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdr93 (Post 521982)
mine refuses to make anything for me. i have to show it how to do everything. what did it make for you?
Copy the following into your x-terminal ... then see what the N900 can do for you in bed in the morning... :D

Code:
dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.mce /com/nokia/mce/request com.nokia.mce.request.req_vibrator_pattern_activate string:PatternIncomingCall
...What? Just trying to be helpful. :o :p



The above command is (mostly) harmless. Oh, and to make the phone stop doing that, make a call and then hang up immediately :)

danramos 2010-02-12 00:03
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bull81 (Post 522157)
Finlly someone wrote what i had in mind for a while!!!

I realy like this phone but evry time i check recent topics i get more and more depresed because of the 'i want to complein to feel better' threat

I think we have clear picture abut known issus so if you want to complain AGAIN abut something that IS KNOWN, please do it on difrent forum.
I think i got to emotional, but it was really anoying me as well.

Many thanks for all of you who work so hard to make this phone better dispite of all the compleins!
A little confusion there, I think. What forum are you suggesting for the complaints to go to? If the issues are being raised again and again, I have to question the efficacy of addressing those concerns. Particularly if addressing those concerns has a label that reads 'FIXED IN [whatever the next OS will be]' soon after a product is released, and then allowed to stagnate long enough that it never has to be addressed since the product is no longer new anymore. It can feel like THAT forum is being ignored as well.

In the case of the N900, I would promote some patience for fixes in such a new product too, though. It JUST came out. It would probably be advantageous for Nokia if it made it specifically known that certain fixes were on the way. Maybe.

I don't know--I just don't see the same kind of aggressive anticipation for fixes in the Debian/Ubuntu/Red Hat world that you see in the Maemo realm, since those patches and releases occur more regularly and reliably.

Do you think more people would be happier if Maemo went the way of releasing fix/security patches often and feature releases every 6 months?

waleed786 2010-02-12 00:03
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qole (Post 522167)
the above command is(mostly) harmless
lol..................

dreadnought 2010-02-12 00:06
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
I don't mind the complaining or whining as long as it is done in a spirit of community (i.e. what can be done to resolve this) and is not a complaint about a feature everyone knew was missing or not fully mature. To be honest, if you dropped 600 dollars on a device and didn't bother to find out that it doesn't support portrait mode then that's really on your shoulders...

What I love about this forum is when a thread really works towards solving an issue that CAN be solved. Look at the thread going on at the moment about trying to get bluetooth keyboards working with the N900. Rather than a endless whine about why it wasn't implemented, the guys on that thread are sharing information, finding fixes and trying to work towards ta solution...which I'm sure they will.

This is what I find fascinating about this device and this forum. Rather than having to wait and hope that a manufacturer will release a firmware and address these issues (and more often than not they don't address the issues that are important to YOU), here you can see individuals working together in real time to come up with solutions and fixes.

danramos 2010-02-12 00:13
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreadnought (Post 522186)
Look at the thread going on at the moment about trying to get bluetooth keyboards working with the N900. Rather than a endless whine about why it wasn't implemented, the guys on that thread are sharing information, finding fixes and trying to work towards ta solution...which I'm sure they will.
...although nobody there would tell me exactly what the problem is with HID keyboard support and whether it effects everything or only SOME keyboards. :P

Texrat 2010-02-12 00:19
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreadnought (Post 522186)
I don't mind the complaining or whining as long as it is done in a spirit of community (i.e. what can be done to resolve this) and is not a complaint about a feature everyone knew was missing or not fully mature.

<snip>

What I love about this forum is when a thread really works towards solving an issue that CAN be solved. Look at the thread going on at the moment about trying to get bluetooth keyboards working with the N900. Rather than a endless whine about why it wasn't implemented, the guys on that thread are sharing information, finding fixes and trying to work towards ta solution...which I'm sure they will.

See, I can't even remotely call THAT whining. And that's what I'm having trouble with apparently: the definition of that word.

My usage of the word has always applied to something like "wahhh, why I can't have this! why didn't you do that? I want one! Now I don't want one. Pick me up! Put me down! Wahhhhh...."

danramos 2010-02-12 00:20
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 522206)
See, I can't even remotely call THAT whining. And that's what I'm having trouble with apparently: the definition of that word.

My usage of the word has always applied to something like "wahhh, why I can't have this! why didn't you do that? I want one! Now I don't want one. Pick me up! Put me down! Wahhhhh...."
Why can't you just love us for the whiners that we are? Why do you have to complain about whiners? Shut up and talk to us! :p

Texrat 2010-02-12 00:25
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
That's it, I'm taking my laptop and going home.

Guber99 2010-02-12 00:28
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 522220)
That's it, I'm taking my laptop and going home.
Even you dont use N900 to enter Maemo blogs..............sad.....will they cut off your monthly or weekly Apologizing salary?

penguinbait 2010-02-12 00:35
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
So the Op has been here for a month, and is an expert on who will be here in the future? He appears to be a sexist arse?

I have been "whining" about maemo for 4 years, and I do not anticipate that ending anytime soon.

fatalsaint 2010-02-12 00:52
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qole (Post 522167)
The above command is (mostly) harmless. Oh, and to make the phone stop doing that, make a call and then hang up immediately :)
And we have the first .... yeah.... App for the N900 :D.

Awesome.. now whose gonna put a GUI on it and release it to the repo ;)

danramos 2010-02-12 00:55
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guber99 (Post 522224)
Even you dont use N900 to enter Maemo blogs..............sad.....will they cut off your monthly or weekly Apologizing salary?
That deserved a karmic 'thanks' for the laugh. :)

gerbick 2010-02-12 01:00
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
If nobody whined, would everything be assumed that everything was ok and nothing needed improvement? Just wondering...

fatalsaint 2010-02-12 01:02
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 522273)
If nobody whined, would everything be assumed that everything was ok and nothing needed improvement? Just wondering...
Nope. If nobody whined... normal, logical, people would be discussing how to better a device in a sane, calm, decent discussion.

Saying "Damn... email's not working. What can we do?" != Whine

Saying "WHY WON'T MY EMAIL WORK!?! THIS SUCKS! YOU ALL SUCKS! I HATE YOU!!!" and then repeating it about 5 times.. == Whine.

but like Texrat I should bow out.. it appears he and I are the only two that seem to be thinking of "whine" in the same light.

jdr93 2010-02-12 03:44
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 522166)
Wow, Goober, that actually made some sense! Congratulations.
a stopped clock is right twice a day

geneven 2010-02-12 04:15
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
I think that some people who are labeled as winers are no such thing, and it's better to give people the benefit of the doubt. There are several cultures mixing here, not all comprehensible to the others. People have different styles of communication. The nice thing about these threads is that one has the option to not respond to threads one doesn't like. Maybe those who choose to participate in it will get something out of it. Those who choose not to participate will not be done much damage.

geneven 2010-02-12 04:22
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
Some threads get too much attention and others not enough. I think it would be a good idea to single out threads that are seen as models and highlight them somehow. Like, instead of carping about wining, how about focusing on the outstanding threads out there. I was interested in one example mentioned in this thread and would be interested in seeing more. The problem with Thanks is that they are focused on individual messages. That is good, but it's not enough. I would like to see something like Thanks for an entire thread, to all the participants.

gerbick 2010-02-12 04:25
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatalsaint (Post 522277)
Nope. If nobody whined... normal, logical, people would be discussing how to better a device in a sane, calm, decent discussion.

Saying "Damn... email's not working. What can we do?" != Whine

Saying "WHY WON'T MY EMAIL WORK!?! THIS SUCKS! YOU ALL SUCKS! I HATE YOU!!!" and then repeating it about 5 times.. == Whine.

but like Texrat I should bow out.. it appears he and I are the only two that seem to be thinking of "whine" in the same light.
BUT DAMMIT! WHY WON'T YOU ACCEPT MY ANSWER!!?!?!?!?!1

I'll repeat it once I stop crying in the corner.

ysss 2010-02-12 04:38
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
Fight Fire with Fire!


(no, it doesn't work.)

Lazarpandar 2010-02-12 04:41
Re: Stop negativity- Most of u here are temporary
 
Yeah! Down with women!


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