Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

That's exactly my point.. sad but true; especially now with Intel on board, and they also have history of 'cost effective' solutions. Killing anything that was there, and I wouldnt be surprised that marmo6 device will be marketed as the FIRST MULTI TASKING one. ;-)

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

Please can you add to the letter that I'm very unhappy that Symbian S60 5th Edition doesn't work on my N95 and could they please promise me that the N97 will be supported by Symbian^3.

Oh and one last thing, I'd also like the moon on a stick if that's possible ;)

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

So what if the N900 doesn't get Maemo 6/MeeGo? Might be nice but not critical at all. We have been assured the N900/Maemo 5 will support most Maemo 6/MeeGo applications. That's clearly a fact now, not just someone's babbling. That alone assures me that my N900 will have a long and productive life - with or without Maemo 6/MeeGo.

And yes, we've been told that N900 owners will not be forgotten. I'll take him at his blogged-from-his-own-N900 word. I'm not gonna call Jaaski a liar until I see otherwise - are you?

Really, I see something like 90% upside against 10% downside in this whole MeeGo thing. The -10% being mostly the name. I'm still having a hard time with MeeGo...

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

Really mature. That's totally not the point - the phone costs more than a decent computer AND a netbook, it SHOULD be supported and upgraded as other phones and computers have been and will be. Nokia have a track record of NOT even doing a proper job of one complete and mature iteration of the OS a device is first shipped with... I'd even settle for just that frankly.

To clarify, I love the N900 and just hope Nokia will let it be all that I HAVE PAID FOR AND SHOULD REASONABLY BE EXPECTING IT TO BE. The price tag warants years of support and upgrades!

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

The **** you mean by that?

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

@Crashdamage we we're assured that Maemo software will run MeeGo software, not the other way around.

And I second stopgag that I love n900, and hope there wont be MeeGo device released in the same stage that n900 was.

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

Sorry if my sarcasm was too low brow for you. Perhaps I should include a "mature" argument for those who aren't just throwing their toys out of their prams.

I bought my N95 in Summer 2007, in Dec 2008 nokia was still releasing firmware updates. A whole year and a half after the phone was originally released.

The updates didn't include a new version of the OS but included fixes and even new features for the phone.

At no point has Nokia said Maemo 6 would be available for the N900, so why are people suddenly acting like they did? Why are people also acting like this announcement of MeeGo means that Nokia will stop supporting the N900? They were busy working on new versions of Symbian whilst they were still supporting my N95 why can't it work that way with the N900?

Personally I preferred the way I said it first time.

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

@sirmuttley
1) n95 was an s60, so were all other nokia 'smartphones' ; what would you expect the upgrade to be?
2) Nokia didnt say maemo 6 will be available on n900, but they didnt say they'll release it half a year after maemo5. Give me one and a half year support and upgrades on a well working device (like n95) and then we'll talk.
It stinks like 'some' operating system (for desktops; developed by a huge company, betas we're available, people bought them, waited for updates, then system was cancelled and they made a OS X copy instead) were left half done, and company moved to the next one.

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

Did some editing to that post to make what I meant perfectly clear...

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

Indeed, give them that. You've already basically declared that this Will Not Happen.

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

Err, actually S60 came in different versions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbian_OS#Symbian_OS_9.2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S60_(software_platform)

My N95 was S60 3rd Edition Feature Pack 1 (Symbian 9.2)
The N96 was S60 3rd Edition Feature Pack 2 (Symbian 9.3)
The N97 was S60 5th Edition (Symbian 9.4)

Get the picture?

Harmattan (Maemo 6) is being released half a year after Maemo 5? I'm pretty sure it's not. But I'd love the to see the source you have.

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

can you link where that was said?

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

@SirMutley, can you tell me that maemo 5 is a mature OS? It still shouldnt be released. And maemo6 is coming out in 3rd quarter of this year, so.

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

why does this thread feel like an orangebox thread?

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

Search this forum for 'QT 4.6 Maemo 5' and you'll find enough references to keep you busy for a week.

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

so..... that's more than 6 months, N900s have been out since November 09. Also I had heard "2nd half of the year" which is a normally a fairly handy wavey way of saying Quarter 4.

I'd be surprised if we saw Harmattan before October. Though the doom sayers will of course see 3rd Quarter/2nd Half as 00:01 on 1st July.

I'm not sure how maemo 5 being a mature OS has any relevance to what we were discussing. How would you define the OS? the underlying debian linux base? the UI on top? The Apps it comes with? The whole package?

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

How about you start using your brain? Maemo 6 will still be using debs and the whole nine yards, the Qt version will be available to Maemo 5 (and already is, partially).

Please do stop trolling, and please make sure this thread becomes a bit more informational and useful. You are not being helpful in any way, shape or form.

Consider this the first warning.

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

Frankly the Symbian "feature packs" were no better... there was virtually nothing between the different hardwares of the 3rd edition phones - certainly nothing which would have stopped the majority of the applications, system features and configurations from being made available on "older" devices.

Again, Apple have it right on that front. The OS gets proper upgrades with charges for when the phone is out of cycle. It's pretty fair and extends the life of devices in accordance with their hardware platform's capabilities and not just snuffing them out because your network/manufacturer tells you it is time.

There are strong similarities to Microsoft bringing out Vista, only to rapidly replace it with another expensive iteration (albeit a good one) in windows 7. People bought into the Vista upgrade expecting a certain longevity to it only to find it hastily replaced as MS panicked out a hasty replacement in response to having gotten it wrong the first time. Again I draw a direct Nokia parallel with the N93/N93i fiasco which I unfortunately suffered through.

The crux of the problem really though is the following:
N900 will:
be upgraded to Maemo 6
will not be upgraded to Maemo 6
will be updated for years to come
won't be supported because it is being superceded
Maemo 6 is coming out in 6 months
Maemo 6 is coming out in 1 year
Maemo 6 is being dropped in favour of MeeGo
MeeGo and Maemo 6 will run side by side
N900 will run MeeGo and Maemo 6 applications...
...actually maybe only some...
...actually only those developed with QT which is/isn't coming to the N900 (whatever that means to your average non-tech-minded phone user)
...etcetera...

There is so much garbage floating out there and Nokia do worse than nothing by way of informing their users, they actually fan the crosstalk and rumours to the point where noone can really know what to expect.

If you wait until they maybe do what they have done in the past and drop your expensive device like a stone, then, well... it's too late. If you try and proactively preempt the behaviour they have shown in the past by trying to make it known while there is still time that you won't stand for, well then you're a toy-throwing troll.

There are no toys, there is no pram... just an expensve set of bricks that I for one can't afford to keep buying just because Nokia says so. Reasonable longevity, value for money and continued support that you can know about in advance and rely on is not unreasonable.

There are UMPCs which cost less and are more dependable in the above terms so why should N900 owners expect any less?

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

this is the kind of post that's rather unfortunate and way too regular here.

The OP is making vailid points about real end users concerns, about a brand new phone, and is getting dismissed as a whinging crank.

They absolutly have not clarified the future of the n900 at all. and any beliefs that it will be well supported, or get or not get Maemo 6 are just that. groundless beliefs based on patchy interperatations.

it would be EASY for nokia to clarify things one way or the other.
Even bad news is better than not knowing.

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

Not wishing to contradict but I was thinking the exact same thing this evening and had decided to try and take some preemptive action lest Nokia did the dirty on its customers once again. I did find thid thread helpful and hope he does have some way to convey information to Nokia on this one. It may achieve nothing but if you don't try...

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

Hi groeit,

I am probably among the very few ppl not bothered at all by the news. I still would be interested to know if N900 will have Maemo 6/MeeGo update option, but my suggestions would be for Nokia to encourage developers by:
1) Getting the OVI Store right.
2) Give developers better incentives (hey let's say developing for Maemo/MeeGo, OVI Store would only take 15% of the revenue since those developers are also part of the beta testing program!)
3) At least guarantee Maemo 5 will have QT4.6 update with Maemo 6 UI/MeeGo Framework support so developers can be convinced that the platform stability is not that worse.

Of course, now that we have MeeGo it should be easier to convince developers to develop for that, maybe not now but maybe some time in Q2-Q3 more info come out.

As for the whole Nokia giving up on Maemo 5/N900 topic, I too think Nokia should provide an upgrade path for N900 since the hardware is perfectly capable of what the new Maemo 6 device could handle. But that part is out of my control, so what I see now is N900 getting better and better after each firmware update, and the MeeGo news actually changes nothing since:
1) No one ever promises Maemo 6 will be available on N900... so it's the same situation regardless of when Maemo 6 (and now MeeGo) come out.
2) Nokia has been urging developers to develop on QT4.6 so the app will run on Maemo 6 (and now MeeGo, and also Maemo 5 PR1.2)

This merge might cast some doubt on commercial developers.... but eventually they would join the MeeGo train because, well, Nokia will have MeeGo phones/tablets/whatever in the near future. As we can sort of estimate, Maemo 6 will be more "mom-friendly" so that opens up a larger market compared with Maemo 5. And the good news is that you can start developing for Maemo 5 today and carry on throughout Maemo 6 to MeeGo. I think the key issue to all this commercial developer problem would improve a lot if OVI Store functions correctly.... Angry Bird's success alone will attract some indie developers. Afterall, money talks, if there is a success story, you can tell money is there. If there is not, you have to look at the number of unit sold X probability of each user buying an app = not that convincing for N900, even if Maemo6/MeeGo is coming out 5 years later.

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

Oh please, my original post was clearly not aimed at the people worried about the N900 being supported other wise I'd have posted the same crap to the *many* other threads asking exactly the same question.

My post was aimed at the original poster who was busy stroking their ego telling us all how he's "in" with Nokia and could get answers that no one else could get.

Why, if he's so in with Nokia, he would need support from us lower class users I'm not too sure. Why also he would need to tell us in advance about his intention to write this letter to Nokia I'm not sure either. To me it seems pretty unprofessional way of going about it. That was what my sarcasm was aimed at.

As for it being easy for Nokia to clarify things you seem to forget that they are a business. If they come out and say "N900 wont run Maemo 6, but we will continue to support Maemo 5" (which is what I believe is the case) all that will be reported is "Nokia drop support for N900, wont run Maemo 6" and they wont sell one more N900. Given that the OS is free, how do you expect Nokia to fund maemo/meego if they aren't making money from hardware sales?

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

I dont know if you spend 600eur / 800$ into the N900 but a lot of People did. Like i said in the Meego Thread when the N900 cames on my radar i was looking at the IRC and in this Forum (oct 09) there where NO WORD about that M6 wont be supported by the N900.

Its easy to say didnt you research damn the n900 isnt a community driven thing like some small linux distri where you can say if you dont like use another .. its not for cheap. For sure its not an easy to use click and fun device like an iphone.

But we are talking about costumers they see maybe the blogs wow you can use a ps3 controller and play NES wow thats cool.. sure it is but you cant really await that they all reading the Threads here before. Take a look at the Nokia Page now they still selling this Device with there shiny marketing.

Some People talked about the good Community here i agree but since a few weeks i read to often TROLL and some other i got the bigger IT balls comments. Its like you go to an hacker IRC where the script kiddies have there playground..

I wish we could do a simple mature discussion about the Problems, Bugs , and the Future of the N900.

Sorry this was a little OT ;D so i hope the open Letter to Nokia will arrive the right Peoples and we can have a long livetime for the N900.

best regards Crown

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

I agree completely. I choose n900 because its Debian which I use on server and my desktop also. And as long as they keep Debian at its core, its fine with me.

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

I spent 635€ on it, so that qualifies me to answer right? Well, there was NO WORD that M6 won't be supported on N900, but there was NO WORD it will be supported either. As a matter of fact, there still is NO WORD on both of those stances. You assumed that it will be supported, and assumption is the mother of all f-ups.

I wish that, too. However with this kind of whining that's just impossible. There are quite a lot of mature discussions on t.m.o, this one ain't one of them.

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

hi zwer, so i just wasnt await if i buy a nokia device that the firmware called maemo5 will run out that fast and replaced by a maemo6 / meego and that this is maybe not supported. I mean common i buyed my n9 2 month ago as my personal xmas present..

A little whineing about the way this goes should be allowed. But i agree to you there are a lot of mature discussions here but also a lot of this "you are a troll" based.

Iam open for the new meego too just was take a look at the moblin ui looks really greate in my eyes a good concept. If this comes to the N9 anybody will be happy here iam sure.

peace iam out :)

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

This reminds me of Vista and Windows 7. We all know what happened here.

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

yes but windows 7 runs on laptops with win xp/Vista. I just sent an email to Nokia USA on their website regarding an Issue I have with my n900... They don't even have the n900 listed in their supported phones (drop down menu) for me to select. But to be fair I dont know if it was ever an option to select. It is my first email to the support.

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

well i dont really mind personally about the announcement of maemo 6/meego etc..i usually change phone every 8-9months..BUT...i totally agree with the frustrated people that paid a lot of money for N900..it is ridiculous for a company to announce a phone(n900), ship it 2 months later than they had planned, having many many problems, and after of 2 months of availability announcing completely new OS(and ofcourse new device..M6 will support multitouch..so no M6 for N900). and i was laughing @apple................

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

"I'm still having a hard time with MeeGo..."


Commercial: "I always go with MeeGo" New! Get All-Bran for Kids!

:)

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

1. It's not a completely new OS
2. M6 was announced before the N900 was even released
3. M6 having multitouch doesn't mean it wont work on the N900, just means multi touch wont work, alternatives could be supplied (there are 3 different ways to zoom in MicroB)
4. Sound like a broken record here but, M6 was never promised for N900.

As far as I can tell the MeeGo announcement has made no real difference to the N900. M6 will still be released as planned just with a different name. It'll still be debian based, it'll still use QT, it'll most likely still run on ARM hardware. So the N900 is still in exactly the same boat it was in when released 3 months ago.

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

I thought the reports said they were dropping debian and basing it off of Red Hat?

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

indeed, you're right on that. However when Nokia can't/won't even tell us what to expect and when to expect it for Maemo 5/N900. There is no guarantee that they won't drop it and leave it unsupported because they've just kept quiet. Nokia have previously even promised features for a range of phones (N-Gage support) only to then quietly forget about it. They've made faulty, poorly designed and under-specced phones and not supported them with a long-enough support period. The point of this thread seems to be to say to Nokia this won't do and can you please tell us what's going on... not exactly a big ask!

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

Does anyone on this thread seriously thing that Nokia doesn't realize that the members of Maemo.org would like to know whether the N900 will be upgradable to the next OS (whatever it's name and/or architecture)?

Does anyone on this thread seriously think that if Nokia knew the answer was "yes" they wouldn't already have said it?

Nokia clearly isn't willing to commit to backwards compatibility at this point. No "open letter" is going to change this.

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

This is true for the ultimate aim of MeeGo, but not for Harmattan.

I'd suggest reading this post:

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...3&postcount=14

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

Well said.

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

Thank you! I get it now. Now I just want more information about the n900 support and the EOL of the product... What direction they want to head and so on with the phone.

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

Of course they know.

I do believe they wouldn't have said it if they knew the answer was yes. A combination of commercial sensitivity, dreadful PR and seemingly (observed over 10 years of owning Nokia phones) growing contempt for existing customers is why.

I for one just want to know what is going on with Maemo 5 and the N900. Details of Maemo 6 or MeeGo would be great also, but right now Nokia have not clearly laid out what at a minimum will happen for the N900.

Open letters can make a difference if you make enough noise and get the right people to look at them. In combination with blogging, social network sites, articles and even press coverage (if you can get them to pick it up) you can change the way a company operates. It is a shame that people get called trolls for taking first steps in this process. I cite the Sony "rootkit" scandal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BM...ection_scandal) as direct evidence of how making noise can change things.

Nokia have done what we're talking about before and I fear they'll do it again...

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

personally I added this noob (grope-it) to my ignore list a long time ago. I think his lack of knowledge and common sense shine thru on most of his posts.

Re: Letter to Nokia.
 

Nokia are not going to listen to anyone.
If you want my demands/requests then they are:

1. Better customer service (at least upto apple's standards)
2 .Proper firmware changes/updates rather than small things at a time
3. Would like to see Meego happening on the N900


Don't gun me for mentioning apple, i am anti-apple! lol I just sed that as i have seen an heard of their outstanding customer service, an nokia is absolutly sh.. an dnt give a toss. Nw u folk are prob thinking well why are u on here an why have u got an n900? Coz I will never buy an iphone or an apple gadget, I have always liked nokia. I have tried other brands such as LG, motorolla etc but they are really bad to use. Yea they got the looks but use wise naah not for me.

Anyhow if u need any signature or backing on the letter then kl let me knw. I wish nokia would for once listen to us the community and quit acting like they are government officials - arrogant stuck up ar*se h**es! :-/