Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

Thanks sio2interactive.

Personally I think the handling of the OVI store is a disaster too.

I agree more commercial software will definately help the platform.

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

Off with his head.
The mob has spoken!

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

cashclientel: Hahahah :)

Honestly I don't think the whole thing is such a big deal...

Im the first one who was able to a stable working out-of-the-box 3D commercial games out there on the platform with integrated payment.

At least you gotta gimme creditz on this ;)

Just hope its going to inspire other game developers, and push the platform to gain more maturity ;)

Cuz right now honestly, it can't compete with ie: iPhone, which actually I would REALLY appreciate... you know shake a bit Apple from its current comfort zone ;)

You know what I mean ;)

Hehehe

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

Humm qwerty12 how much you pay for Bounce Evolution? and is this a game or a demo ;)

And just as a reminder... look what happen with the commercial version of angry bird a few weeks/month back... They put a package commercial, and then realize that people could still get it for free...

If I was Rovio, I would be pissed... but maybe that's just me ;)

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

Look, he's posted his sudo apology and justification.

Does it make it ok? This is a matter of opinion.

At the end of the day, I'm going to argue that we need him (his efforts that is) more than he needs us so maybe we should accept his apology and move on.

2d

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

Yes, I deleted my post after I realised the stupidity of what I said...

That said, Rovio is certainly commercial and it is a technology demo, yes, but I haven't seen the "full version" =)

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

Considering the ramifications of this statement and the fact that many, many, people use their devices to perform financially sensitive transactions I would submit that any applications submitted by this company should be banned.

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

Well, on the contrary... I would personally feel ALOT more safe dealing with someone like me... that means that I know what Im doing ;)

And won't let "security flaws" be integrated within my own code ;)

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

is banning people more important than fixing the flaws in our system :) ?

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

Just because a bug exists does not mean that it should be exploited. As seen here, it does the publisher and community a great amount of disservice in addition to being a lapse in ethics. The Maemo platform may be immature, but putting out a product that has not received its proper shakeout could tarnish Maemo's image. I strongly believe that the process in which programs get promoted to Extras is here to help, and the advantages of following it includes learning opportunities from community feedback and a better quality product.

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

while i do agree with most of the points you make (OVI store, deployment hell etc), i can't let this one stand.

you knowingly exploited a bug (if you can even call it that), and you DO have to be blamed for that. just because there are no protections software-wise in place, doesn't mean it's up for everyone to do as they wish.

i appreciate you coming here and explaining your predicament, and i fully agree that the process is broken for commercial developers right now, but that does not justify what you have done.

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

Hi!

Welcome to the maemo.org community - generally what we do here when we find a bug is we report it! On most sites throughout the website you can find a "Report a bug" link which takes you straight to the form for a bug report. This is generally the way to get a bug fixed, instead of blatantly exploiting it and then saying "it wasn't my fault there was a bug".

It's a bit like saying it's not theft since you left your front door unlocked isn't it?


Either way, I'm not surprised someone did try to game the system. Good thing we got community members watching and catching the exploit you used. Still some honorable people left on the internet ;-)

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

Well I would feel safe if you'd have reported the problem. Exploiting it tells me that you have skill and dubious morals.

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

cyeung: So create a decent process for people to be able to create commercial apps on the platform... Only commercial apps will make the platform go forward as it will get the attention of developers...

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

Extras is not exclusive you know, if you don't like the QA rules you are free to create your own repository.

That is the real issue right there. The existence of a flaw does not make it alright to exploit it, and whatever your issues with Nokia, Ovi etc the vote spamming was totally inappropriate. It basically boils down to misleading the community about the amount of community testing that has gone into the packages.

Apology accepted, but whether trust lost can be regained is another issue altogether.

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

Let's make some deals here. We'll all suddenly forget what just happened if you'll port the rest of your games (TankGame, MeditationGarden and BackyardWar).

Hey, it's a win-win situation! ;)

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

Maybe we need to move on, but SI02 needs to understand and appreciate that the community doesn't really look favourably on his actions regardless of his personal/business situation.

At the end of the day, I know nothing really in terms of coding and development but can understand that we need people like him/you to develop the platform.

If we can all grin and bare what was done (not forgetting mind!!), then we show what a great community we are, and we get the skills of another person to develop for the N900.

My two cents, or two pence!! :)

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

Ima: And think that the series of games and the port of the engine to the N900 that I will release, will do just that if the experience is successful ;)

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

All you have to do to prove your above statement is to open up all the code to your applications to public scrutiny. Are you willing to do so? For those who don't know where I'm coming from I provide the following link blackhatworld.com.

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

Oh. This is complicated. Hmmm. I´m having huge problem with your attitude even bugs / exploits you mentioned are well known.

I live in (or at least i think) country where i can leave my wallet/phone on jackets pocket and no one will take it. If i leave my car running and there is keys no one will take it. There is many things that I take as granted. You could say that i´m bit fool and maybe easy target for people who want to take advantage of other people. Do you understand what I´m trying to tell? It's called trust. I trust easily other people and most of time they are really really wonderful and nice. It just feels quite bad when someone uses system like this. Developers here have great responsibility compared to Apples system where you have apple standing before you. And remember than maemo/meego community might be Nokia's pet child, but it has it´s own practices and quite many things on here are based on trust. "Don't be evil" so to say.

.edit
Had to add that I really really understand your frustration but it doesn't justify your actions.

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

Honestly, yes it was a bug... but I had found one that was really causing security issues I would have report it right away... That one was just a light beer... That one was just to put some casual games online man... nothing serious...

Like I said, if people feel its "inexcusable, and cause SERIOUS threats to security and integrity of data", let the mod take it out... its ok... Me I just want to continue doing games for the device that's all...

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

The idea of using PayPal for payment and unlocking the full version is good, my point is that blowing through a QA process is not. Where I work, blowing through QA gets people fired.

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

one thing is sure after this: i wont be touching sio2interactive software even with a flag pole....

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

if you just want to continue doing games, you have to respect the rules that are the exactly same for everyone. your excuses are ridiculous and with those you have ruined your reputation for whole your life in my eyes.

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

Here lies one of the biggest difference between open-community versus commercial entity...

Many of the posts here are based on personal opinions and personal preference, sometimes without regard to the long term interest of the platform itself.

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

Feel free to think that way. But please allow me to think differently.

Word! You might just have pinpointed the reason for the whole N900-"apps" thing missing a leg. What would you think being the reason for e.g. the iPhone being such a hype if it would not have all the (yes, payed!) applications available for it? Yet another mobile phone (YAMP) - no more no less.

They (Editor's note: Apple) found a way to both satisfy end-users and developers by selling all those tiny apps for little money. The one side won't bother spending a buck or two on a useless app while the other side gets their royalties by each click straight.

This won't mix to well with the open-source minded maemo clientel though. At least what I can read from most of the postings on this thread...

Call it a guess, but making iPhone users blindly paying $29.99 for another useless app is a piece of cake compared to convincing us N900-nerds to pay a single penny for even a fully grown office suite.

If "paying" will keep up their(/his?) good work I'm perfectly fine with it. I'll gladly pay for applications if they're worth the money. Everybody has to decide individually how much that'd be in absolute numbers though. Just feel free to not buy it ;-)

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

is there seriously no way that this whole issue could have been handled privately?

There's a whole load of forum posts where people are blamed for spreading FUD (forum acronym of the moment), trolling etc, and otherwise giving the N900 bad publicity, and here we have one developer who's trying to bring commercial apps to the platform and he's being roasted over community coals. This community is currently the only way of bringing anything to the N900, and we are publicly and actively discouraging it. Have you seen what's Hot and what's Fresh in the downloads section? most of those apps have been there since christmas. So what's happening gents, apart from nothing much.

I'm not suggesting what SI02 did was the right way to go about things, but he should have got a private slap down rather than this public one. Surely we need to encourage people to work on the N900, not push them away.

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

http://liqbase.net/fundingsupporters.html

that tells its own story about people who are ready to donate for a good cause.

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

I found a way to upgrade your games for free!

Should I:

1. Post the exploit here for all to use?

2. Quietly report the bug to you in hopes that you will reward me somehow?

3. Start an auction on E-Bay?

4. None of the above.


... just wondering. :)

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

I am no pro but i think that both sides have a point.

I kind of liked the games and i was surprised by the quality of them (being independent and all). They show quality and work.

I am aware of the process to bring an app into Extras. It's a solution and avoid lot's of troubles.

In this case, yes, someone found a flow and exploited it but thank god it was with good intentions. But thanks to that now we know and someone can fix it.

I think that we should implement some kind of rule that allow developers with approved apps to put more easily new apps on Extras without having to go through the entire process of approvoal. I am not saying that we need to jump some steps, i just think that we don't need to look as deep as usual.


If i made a succesfull app and i created another (using the same engine or being similar to a previous approved app) i should be able to put it in extras fast. Without that, developers will not lose their time to create something new and original since they have a lot of chances to wait long weeks for approvoal and by the time, they lose time and money and don't feel confortable to program something new and it will be more easy for them to go to the "Apple Side" of the force

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...214#post508214

Unfortunately I feel that the way this situation have been handled reflect the whole immaturity of the platform...

So long N900 :(

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

How exactly are the long term interests of the platform served by having poor quality software fraudulently rammed into the repositories?

Not at any price. He did absolutely the wrong thing and deliberately abused the system. In a community it's important to deal with things in the open so people can make their own decisions about things. Given that SIO2 has shown a willingness to exploit a security/process bug for financial gain I'm not going to let any of his code near my systems, and I wouldn't suggest anyone else did either. Why should people be kept in the dark about such behaviour?

As a general point I'd be all for relegating non-Free software to Ovi - it's just not possible to do the sorts of proper QA that I'd expect from a community repo without proper access to the source.

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

Here we go...

The religous zealot war has begun.

Give sio2interactive a break!
He admitted he did something wrong and apologised.

I'm giving home the benefit of the doubt and will let his actions speak for him.
Judgng by the posts on this thread I think he has learnt his lesson!

If anybody here wants this platform to be successful then commercial software should be welcomed.

Paying for software is a personal choice. If I use an app and I am then expected to pay for it that's fine. If there is an open-source version I may use that instead - if it is good enough.

I thought one of the benefits of this open source malarky is the freedom of choice.

I can use an open source app if I want to or pay for a commercial app instead. It's up to me.

If no app exists then I may write my own. I may charge for it or I may open source it - that's my choice.

The SDK for maemo is completely free - I don't need to spend a small fortune for developer tools like some other platforms.

Before I bought the n900 I quite happily paid for software for my Palm T3. I bought a fully-capable officesuite (mobi-office about £20) which I used constantly. I also bought a couple of games for it too.

If the software works and the price is right then I will buy it.

If you are completely against commerical software then write your own open source equivalent.

What's wrong with paying for software?

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

This was a non-zero sum situation.

Both parties could've benefited from that situation, IF handled properly.

Now, both parties have incurred losses due to the way it was handled.

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

As I said earlier, Sio2 made a bold mistake - a mistake that might be difficult to forget for everyone. However, this bad rep isn't of Sio2's interest either. Sio2's contributions to the platform should be appreciated as well, as the platform really need developers like Sio2. But that doesn't mean this act was justified...

Why not find a way to bring a solution to this? I'm sure about that good reputation is also important for Sio2; instead of complaining about what he shouldn't have done, why not suggest what Sio2 should do to change your mind. After all, he had the power to somehow publish commercial games for Maemo - something that no one has succeeded to do earlier...

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

I haven't seen any real apology here. Only "it was just a little thing I exploited, nothing serious" -lines

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

Good Idea, lets go buy stuff from Ovi............

Having said that, if Ovi store was working we wouldn't really be having this kind of issue on maemo.org, and Nokia should not be dependant on the community solving it's paid app problems, or all the development problems.

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

As long as such apps are relegated to a special category that indicates that the developer's profits supercedes the end users security and is easily blockable that would be fine.

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

Not until you turned up. 'Zealot' indeed - as if that's a way to hold a reasonable discussion.

No, he didn't. He said he 'couldn't be blamed' for exploiting a bug because Ovi isn't working yet. That's crap.

In brief:
- You can pay for (and sell) free software.
- You don't have to agree with the philosophy of free software, but the reasoning is pretty clear. It's also clearly nothing to do with getting paid vs not.
- The reaction to the commercial apps has mostly been good. The bad reaction was to the deliberate perpetration of a fraud.

Re: SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras
 

just bumping this from the beginning of the thread.