Re: NOKIA concedes iphone superior............
 

I remember laughing at the N-Gage when it first came out to compete with Nintendo (and Sega's?) handhelds. I didn't know anything about Nokia then (didn't even know until I found the n800).

Well that's probably untrue, I'm sure I saw a Nokia phone somewhere, it just never came to mind.

Re: NOKIA concedes iphone superior............
 

Apple just announced 10,000,000,0000 th song downloaded from itunes........how many from OVI?

Re: NOKIA concedes iphone superior............
 

I like how you slipped that extra zero in. Clever.

Re: NOKIA concedes iphone superior............
 

Thanks for pointing the mistake

Re: NOKIA concedes iphone superior............
 

I'll feed the troll...

Different companies and different business. How many dumb phones has Apple sold?

Re: NOKIA concedes iphone superior............
 

They arent selling any pennies...

Re: NOKIA concedes iphone superior............
 

No way! Apple has a place I can download lots of music from!?! Awesome! I want to introduce my son to some classic Beatles albums. Oh, whoops.

That makes iTunes a complete fail for me.........................

Must only be for teenagers...........................

GTFOL

Re: NOKIA concedes iphone superior............
 

...and that was the point.

The title is not attracting trolls, the title is the bait that the OP is using to attract dissenting posts.
The OP is trolling for a response. He is the troll... and a sad, sad, excuse for a productive community member.
In fact this whole thread brings a tear to my eye when I look at the number of posts it generated.

Re: NOKIA concedes iphone superior............
 

Every article talks about the iphone jolt that is changing NOKIA.....the post is a link to NOKIA's own leadership admitting that the center of gravity shifted to Silicon Valley.........and hopefully NOKIA learns something useful. They have nice devices, their software engineers are still struggling with the complexities of the high end phones......

Re: Nokia concedes iPhone superior............
 

On one hand I'd like to find (and exercise) if there's any forum rules that can be used to kick out obvious trolls...

...but on the other hand, if you don't have enough self control to resist the bait, then you had it coming.... :D

Re: Nokia concedes iPhone superior............
 

There's so much middle ground between letting someone stay with full privileges and kicking them out. But I find no good reason for letting this one stay. But if stay he must, we should start experimenting on him.

Re: NOKIA concedes iphone superior............
 

Does that make all online music places a fail for you too???

Troll or no troll, I'm not really feeling the ad hominum attacks on any member.

On topic, I'm really hoping Nokia will succeed, but they parted me from full retail on an N95; I was underwhelmed by the N97; and the N900 isn't yet at a usable state for me. So I won't be supporting them with my dollars until they come out with something better.

Re: NOKIA concedes iphone superior............
 

Thats funny, I went to Nokia NYC flagship store 2 days ago. The first thing you will see when you walk in is 4 N900's on display. right in front of you. Nokia Flagship store seems to think the N900 is the flagship device

N97 all the way at the back.

Well, it has to do something as the broadband connections and electricity supply are damm ropey.

Er None because you can just put them on the phone without having to pay for them yet again! :D

I blame the gravity shift on MacDonalds and the localised gravitational field generated due to overconsumption :)

Re: NOKIA concedes iphone superior............
 

you mean 8110? 7110 had HUGE display.

Re: NOKIA concedes iphone superior............
 

this might be shocking but flagship stores have also for example e-series phones which have never been flagships...

Re: Nokia concedes iPhone superior............
 

Did daddy buy your N900?

Re: Nokia concedes iPhone superior............
 

Maybe he has a proper job and bought it for himself? LOL

Re: Nokia concedes iPhone superior............
 

maybeeeee......maybeeeee not

Re: Nokia concedes iPhone superior............
 

That's cute, he wants to play. Run along little boy, I'm sure there's a headline somewhere waiting to be mangled. You're so provocative for your age. Do you use breast or formula?

Re: Nokia concedes iPhone superior............
 

I wasn't going to post - but I felt the urge to point out how useless you appear.


To all other reading this thread. I find this to be a quite interesting topic. It is unfortunate that all fanboys have to run into the trenches and start to fling mud.

I've been working in the cellphone business for quite a number of years and it is a reality that IPhone has changed the game. It is a reality that Android based phones has changed it even more. This also implies a shift in the balance towards S.V. No reason to ignore reality and fling dirt. That does not mean that the N900 is behind. The N900 is both in hw and sw (in terms of linux-usage) quite cutting edge.

It is quite pointless to make this into some US vs the World discussion as tex14 seems to be aiming for. My guess is that he has nothing to with the success and hard work of the people behind said technologies. I doubt he would even have the capacity. It is always easy to find any successful group, find a common denominator (in this case nationality) and then hope somebody mistake you for being part of the group.

N900 lacks applications and attention from application companies. Userbase is quite small and I don't think the users really are willing to spend any significant amount of money on applications. Linux-based users tend to believe they should get everything for free and sw developers should develop for fun and eat air.

However, I still believe Nokia is onto something with the N900. They just somehow need to make it profitable for application companies. Produce some sort of "dalvik-like" based sandbox where they can control and simplify the APIs, while still maintaining the freedom of use that interest the "hacker" community.

I think it is very positive that Nokia management is aware and actively pursuing a course that might keep them in the middle of the fray.

Re: Nokia concedes iPhone superior............
 

This is, quite frankly, just this side of slander. Linux users tend to be far more accepting of open source developers and those who earn money not by selling licenses, but by getting paid for the actual act of writing the software. Many, many Linux developers are paid for their work.

No DRM solution can be considered secure when the user still has the ability to replace the kernel. This is why Nokia is discussing the "closed" and "open" modes for the next device, so the user can decide.

Re: Nokia concedes iPhone superior............
 

I believe so too. Probably have more NOKIA devices now, than you ever had in your life. With regards to US vs. the world, whenever someone posts negative facts about NOKIA, you are called a troll, or dumb, or stupid, etc., etc. and when you point out that the only visible NOKIAs lately in the US are prepaid $20 buck phones hanging from Best Buy and Target shelves, the sensitive types claim that US is stupid, people there are stupid, they dont even know what a smartphone is. The link shows that NOKIA leadership realizes what the problem is. They have lost the edge in the high end market. They can sell pennies all over the developing world, but they cant sell smartphones in the US because they can not compete with the service, customer satisfaction, and software. NOKIA apologizers cant digest these facts and then begin name calling.....I am surprised they are not thrown off this board.

Re: Nokia concedes iPhone superior............
 

I know I was sticking my chin out a bit with that comment. I know a lot of people are paid for writing for linux. It does still not change the fact that companies are driven by profit and to focus on a new device (read differing APIs/frameworks/HW) you really need to be able to see a way to make money - and that is where I feel linux based systems sometimes have a problem. While a big company may be able to derive profit from for example sold devices a smaller SW applications only company will be reluctant to produce for a device where they can't see the buyers. For my part I am rather sad that the early Shareware concept of Windows didn't fully work. I mean, that would be a nice way to derive profits from developing for for instance the n900.
(btw... I am a linux user myself - only I try to be objective when it comes to money.)

Well, I understand the problem - but I really do not feel open/close would satisfy me. I enjoy having full access to the phone. The question is - would the solution need to be 100% secure? I mean, you could perhaps lock sw to the IMEI and some other magic and then get a sufficiently good solution to protect aspiring developers somewhat.

Re: Nokia is under pressure from Silicon Valley
 

Tex you are missing the point again. When you have tried to state that the US market show that Nokia is behind producer a or b you should expect people to point out that there is a world outside of the USA. Your usual response in this situation is to state that it is the most competitive market in the world and then claim everyone is a Nokia apologiser.

Nokia doesn't have a huge presence in the US but there are lots of reasons for that. The US is a different market to europe and Nokia are european centric so it is only to be expected that their strategy would also differ.

The other point you ignore time and again is that the Maemo team are a tiny part of Nokia so they simply don't have the resources of a larger company.

Re: Nokia concedes iPhone superior............
 

Well, it is true that there are nokia fanboys as well. I'll give you that. You pretty much missed my point about N900. The N900 is the hw and sw edge, in my opinion. It however lacks momentum so far (read applications/developers/commerce). Nokia still sells the most smartphones in the world by a far margin.

I will refrain from answering any more posts about this because I am not interested in the trenches.

Re: Nokia concedes iPhone superior............
 

LOL. Another NOKIA apologizer, afraid to peek out of his cave. How much is daddy's allowance?

Re: Nokia is under pressure from Silicon Valley
 

Read what NOKIA leadership says. They are hurting. They are regrouping and they know where they have to be. And that is in the most competitive market for high end phones, and it aint India.

Re: Nokia is under pressure from Silicon Valley
 

The USA just trashed Finland in olympic men's hockey.

I'm sure that's relevant to this discussion somehow, if anything at all is. ;)

Re: Nokia is under pressure from Silicon Valley
 

I was gonna look up the score............It must have been those iphone ipods that hyped them

Re: Nokia concedes iPhone superior............
 

Your 2nd deterioration is as fascinating as your first.

After you realized you purchased the wrong device, you panicked. That's understandable. But instead of taking responsibility for your poor decision making, you immaturely turned yourself against the world. Sadly, deep down you know you have no one to blame but yourself, but your stunted personality development won't allow you to take the blame. Now, your self-loathing is continually at odds with your self-preservation instinct, and this seems to be causing a form of schizophrenia. Not good.

Please seek help and come see us when you're better.

Re: Nokia concedes iPhone superior............
 

Lol. This kind of reasoning may work in Afghanistan. Here in more enlightened countries CONSUMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT. do you Get it boy?

Re: Nokia concedes iPhone superior............
 

Not true. There are models then open source kernel and DRM do coexist together.

Re: Nokia concedes iPhone superior............
 

Usually whereby the open source kernel is signed, such that:
- The system will not boot if the wrong kernel is in place
- The system will disable DRM if the wrong kernel is in place.

DRM as required (err, petulantly demanded) by 3rd parties, generally requires top down security such that the:

TPM chip trusts the
boot loader which trusts the
kernel which trusts the
application

And if anything along that chain is broken the DRM can be compromised. Anything else is just intense obfuscation that can be broken by those with the necessary time (see AACS and software BD players.)

Re: Nokia concedes iPhone superior............
 

I am not very knowledgeable regarding DRM solutions for ME. This signing of the kernel - does it apply to kernel modules as well. I would assume it does as they are not in user space?

I would pretty much be willing to accept restrictions regarding the bootloader and the kernel in itself as I've never really done anything in those areas. The modules are a different as they pretty much limit what you have support for.

Re: Nokia is under pressure from Silicon Valley
 

It isn't the US either.

Re: Nokia is under pressure from Silicon Valley
 

Nokia is still the worlds leading high end phone maker.

However, with the iPhone, Apple brought the market to the 'mobile computers'. The place to make money has moved on. The phone component has matured to a commodity.

The n900 is actually a very impressive device, however, with the iPhone it is the ecosystem that has generated success. For Nokia to succeed, they need to claim their own ecosystem. The n900 already has established a base with the very tech savvy users, but Nokia overall needs to LEAD with a mainstream ecosystem to succeed in 'mobile computers'.

Nokia can play catch up with apps, with music and with maps. But they need to take a LEAD, not just follow, in a mainstream ecosystem. Actually, there are some real opportunities up for grabs in the next ecosystems.....the worry is if they get too stuck in the catch up to take a lead