Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

I want this too. But only if I can have 3.5g for free. Or at most for the price I now pay for my ADSL access.

Until then -- and that scenario is a long way off, believe me -- I want to be able to do everything offline if I choose to.

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

I totally agree with the "the phone holds the PIM" philosophy, but we have this amazing computer (that's the Internet Tablet, for those who weren't paying attention) that is much more capable of maintaining the PIM on the hone, so why not make the phone's PIM a mostly for-consulting PIM and the N800/770 its base-station?

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

The calendar in my k700i doesn't seem to be able to set repeated calendar events, something I use all the time.. and GPE-Calendar for the N800 doesn't have a bi-weekly setting, so I can't use that one either.. in fact I'm still using my Palm T3 for all PIM stuff, I would prefer to use the N800 for this. 3 devices is 1 too many to drag, a small phone + 1 bigger is fine. But the T3 doesn't have a big enough display and has other network limitations, while a laptop is too big, the N800 is ideal but can't do what the T3 can do PIM-vise.. and then we're back to topic again. ;)

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

That s exactly what I meant:
1) constant access to Internet is required - hence the need for a 3G phone
and/or
2) need to save a version locally (possible but with which sw to run on the IT) to manage then offline: dangerously confusing (where the hell was I: version 1.1.2.corrected_recorrected or 1.1.3_final_corrected? )

Thanks for confirming that Google Docs and Spreadsheets behave like Calendar with Opera.

One more deadend -so far- identified.

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

Another issue to consider along with the basic features is that the N800 is seen by most as a geeky developer device. It will NEVER gain mainstream popularity until someone gets serious and develops a simple, easy to use installer, and applications for the common man. After reading this forum and browsing the Maemo, I have also come to this conclusion that this is not a device for everyone simply because of the subscriber base. Hardly anything written is understandable by anyone other than developers or the somewhat closed community that surrounds the Internet Tablet platform.

I am considering simply putting my N800 on eBay and going back to a normal device where the forums are populated by less snobbish people and those who do not have a problem communicating to non-developers.

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

I have exactly the same experience. That's why I ll get the n95 when it s out because I ll get a small phone 3.5G + 5 Mpx cam with autofocus, the PIM. and HOPEFULLY the n800 and the n95 share the same charger... or I ll have to buy a heavy multicharger (not even sure it ll work).

the other solution for you would have been to have two sim cards for the same number (possible here in Finland, elsewhere I don't know) : one in your small phone one in your Tytn. But still have to update PIMs in both :(

Cheers, Seb

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

hum... as a non-developper I agree that this forum gets sometimes difficult for me to follow (snobbish definitely not!) but there are other forums (or fora?) / support pages focusing on the n800 with more "user friendly" approach. Nokia has one.

S

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

@sapporobaby:
Searching around Maemo may definitely be a bit cumbersome for "mainstream" users, but I can't see where the problem with the built-in installer is? The package manager has a few simple options, where one will update what's installed and another will list all packages available that could be installed. Not that big a list either, unless you have added a lot of repositories manually. In fact I think this is the simplest by far installer I've seen on any portable device -- it's usually much more work to get something installed on your general PDA or smartphone.

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

unless a major operator propose a solution enabling connecting to internet through any wifi cell respecting cost and privacy, constant access is 3G, 3.5G and Edge. Digital Radio is coming here, maybe that will also propose internet (like powerline here) N800 with its FM tuner (should it be digital) could then also connect.

You will get 3.5G for peanuts (starts to be cheap here) but I see a trouble on the horizon: when everyone will use VOIP coupled to WIFI (cheap or free), operators will have to increase subscription monthly fees like crazy. And don't count on the small operators because they re using the networks of the major ones.
Wimax can save (because it will introduce new competitors on the access to network) but we ll have to get a IT wimax at that time.

to do everything offline (if one choose to, which is I believe the best) one need apps offline. not on the IT ...yet.

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

Maybe snobbish was a bit strong, but sure it is like a clique of developers. This could be a great device but in many ways the community tends to turn people off. As an example, I had a few friends, one has the N800, and my wife, a Finn, try to go through the forum and see if they could find helpful hints. After just a few mins, they got frustrated and said that there is no way they would even bother to search for help here. This is not good as they are mainstream users, not techie types that only want a device that works. I am an engineer, not developer and feel that this forum is for sure slanted at developers and the users are sometimes left to fend for ourselves. For this device to take off, it has to appeal to the man in the street, not a closed group of users.

My $.02.

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

I think it's in Nokia's best interest to at least lead a PIM development effort. The "it's just an internet tablet" protest evaporated rapidly when the FM radio was acknowledged.

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

Well, is there any reason to believe that Nokia will? It's been almost 18 months and even the email app is under-developed to be kind. They are pursuing the Skype/Rhapsody kind of apps.

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

I agree w/ you on the 'mainstream' approach but maybe nokia doesnt want it to kill all the E series -running on symbian, owned by nokia-. i agree the extraordInary form factor and screen o the n800 make it the ideal candidate for a blockbuster if the PIM and apps mentioned in this thread emerge...

but again, the n800 support pages are quite mainstream (i use it a lot). my gut feeling is that this site applies to the ones who want to take the n800 a few steps further.

Seb

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

That's funny.....I still use a Sony Clie NR70V (now 5 years old) because I can't find a better PDA for my needs. Even when this one dies I will probably go to ebay to get another Clie. Unfortunately I still read on my Clie as well.....I would much rather read on the N800 but the only stuff I can find is Old classics or stuff I have never heard of. Sorry but I like popular Sci-Fi and other current novels.

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

As far as I know we cannot have 2 sims with the same number here in the US..at least not with Cingular..anybody know anything to the contrary?

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

I disagree here. Without some sort of phone, the N800 is dead weight. Sure it has wifi, but this not always handy. I have the N800 and a E61. Combined, I can reach the net all the time from virtually anywhere. I am not sure of the biz strategy of Nokia regarding the N800. It seems like an unfinished device. More of a, "you do it, no you do it, no you do it" device.

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

a few remarks from a point of view close to nokia labs.
- nokia ships 1 million mobile phones a day, of which 30 000 smartphones. its peanuts to launch a new range of device to test a market segment. pre-market devices seem to be a common feature in the labs. furthermore there is internal competition.
- the n800 existence seems to show confidence after the 770
- the n in n800 would indicate convergence toward smartphones.

this makes me think that pim and business apps are not far away.

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

PIMonline, a free Web-based service, seems to work fine on the N800. Check it out at:

http://www.pimonline.com/

Michael

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

totally agree on the 770 but see how the n800 is an improvement in design. i d say the marketing guys in nokia have identified a real market and joined the development team. soon they will demand necessary improvements.

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

have you tried zoho spreadsheets? i just opened their test file and surprise i can open it w/ opera...
they also have word processor and powerpoint. i ll check further...

f....k! feeding data freezes the page. forget it

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

@Seb Per,

Where are you in Finland? I am in Helsinki. Hermannie to be exact. Are you near by?

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

If the community cannot create even decent a PIM application without spoon feeding from Nokia, I don't think the device has much chances of success.

Remember, it's a programmable, not a locked device. If people do not use the freedoms given by Free software, such as Linux and Maemo, our future is full of iPhone-like locked devices with manufacturer-created selected features.

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

Darn good post Keitai.

You hit the nail on the head. Some of these developers need to get serious and develop an application that all could use. Not these hodge-podge applications that only the developing crowd can deal with. The Linux/Open Source crowd are generally viewed as being mavericks and anti-establishment which might in some ways be the reason for lack of a good PIM. PIM's denote calendars, schedules, contacts, biz, etc..... and in some ways this can fly in the face of a developer that "refuses" to give in.

Just my $.02

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

I have heard (only heard, mind you!) that one might be able to find popular works of science&fiction on those new-fangled P2P networks.

And while this might at first sight sound (and be!) highly illegal, it seems to me that, if one were to already own such works in their paper editon, one could not have significant moral objections to suck in their electronic equivalents.

Of course, the moral strength required to limit oneself to only those works one has already procured legally, could very well prove to be just too high...

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

Not spoon fed but how about a browser that can read and edit web apps. That would be a start.
Full access to the DUN routine is also needed.

I guess what I'm saying is there are not many proof of concept apps produced by Nokia...


They say it connects to cell phones over BT... not my phone.

They say it browses the internet... Not any of the web apps I can use.

They say it plays video... not well in any native format that I have.

These things will come, I know but other than code snippets out of Maemo Org... Not a lot you can work with without investing a lot of time and effort relearning syntax that some haven't had a need to use for over 15 years. Not a problem, but it takes time.

I have learned a lot about cell phones over the years. I can access contact and datebook info from proprietary code from most of the manufacturers. This info can be manipulated and saved to another computer in a variety of ways...

I cant do 'ish with the N800 if it won't let me connect.




J2ME proof of concept >> http://my.opera.com/yodude/blog/2006...t-j2me-in-beta


Don't spoon feed me but, how about a little meat with all them potato's?

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

I took a look at pimonline and it does work, but most PIM users already have a bunch of PIM data that would take a while to re-enter into pimonline since it does not appear to have a data import function. So it would not be my first choice.

While While I am new to the IT user base, I would dare to say that many of us, IT user base,
are carrying a bluetooth enabled smartphone. If we could develop the ability to
browse/sync the phone's pim database, we may have a good solution for users
described above.
While this an Internet tablet, it was designed to interface face with other devices like mobile phones. So why not expand that connection.
Thanks,
~DP

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

I am near Hermanni, sure, since I'm in Sörnäinen.

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

Three main problems with Online PIM etc:

+ I am not always online. I can't be due to the network coverage in some cases where I do need to mark down dates etc

+ Online means my data resides on a server outside my control and travells over a net outside my control. Okay for mails etc. but not for contacts and dates

+ OUTLOOK or NOTES. Any application that can't Sync with those two standard systems is useless for many PDA users since they want/must use those systems as the prime date/contact storage system. And exporting VCards and manually importing them is not Sync. We are not talking software guys or even intersted fans, we are talking end users here.

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

Outlook is always mentioned, but it should be said though that Outlook itself is horrible when it comes to synching contacts. Outlook can't import vcards properly, it can only import one contact at the time. This is totally useless for corporate users, and Outlook 2007 still hasn't fixed this. Outlook shouldn't be considered the measure stick by far.

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

I just met with some one in N series. PIM Sync is something they seem to work on for the N800. No garantees, it was just a hint ... But confirmation that this can't be the priority compared to the tsunami of "regular" phones and n phones shipped by Nokia.

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

And yet, between them Outlook and Notes have 80+ percent of the market in date planning/contact apps. Sure, Outlook can't do VCards very well but most WinCE PDA's don't use VCards for Sync. And unless the N800 can replace a WinCE PDA, it will remain a rather small market segment and risks loosing customers to the new large screen WinCE PDA like the Sharp unit.

A lot of people don't care about "It's a Unix" or "It follows official standards" stuff. That includes software engineers like me. The metering stick is "It works in my Windows-Based company net/infrastructure". The thing is a tool, not the center of my life. If it can't do the job, I won't buy it/use it.

OTHO I am willing to back a resonable sum for a working USB-Sync between an On-Unit, Offline-capabel PIM and my desktop system that does not involv any external service centers/computers or Web-Servers. Actually I think that commercial software is the ONLY chance to get such a solution, not putting much faith in OSS interacting with commercial standards.

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

The WinCE PDAs don't use VCards for sync because they use Outlook, which is severely handicapped in this area. However, lots of mobile phones support vcard files out of the box, with two exceptions that I've seen: Windows smartphones, and Nokia phones (at least all Nokia phones I've tried, NB: non-smartphones. Symbian seems to work, although I've not tested Nokia versions).
At work I can download the company contacts list (with email, name, address, two or three phone numbers for each employee) to a Palm PDA, and then just bluetooth it to anyone as and when I get near them. This way it's easy to maintain the contacts on everybodys phones (we only use mobile phones here). Well, except for those unlucky individuals with the abovementioned phones. They tend to be without any contacts on their phones as it's just too much work to send the contacts one by one (which works but takes forever).
If you google (sorry, if you use the FWSE*-- G. don't like their name to be used that way) for outlook+vcard you'll see that this has been a complaint on Outlook for a very long time.

Should a software tool support VCard? Well, should it support a standardized method of interchanging contacts? In my opinion "yes", although I would be interested to know if there are other equally standardized methods around (I'm not aware of any but willing to be educated).

(Actually, Outlook does support VCards -- it's just that it supports only a single VCard entry at the time, which is why I call it useless in the corporate environment. MS implemented it for users with not very many contacts to deal with.)

--
* FWSE: Famous Web Search Engine

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

Send me a PM. I am on the way to Verrkokauppa now. Need a printer that can connect to my new AirPort Extreme base station. :)

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

I have a hair to split: how do you define phone? For instance, there's more than one way to skin a cat--

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2089611,00.asp (VERY interesting!)

http://www.wirelessnetworkproducts.c...OD&ProdID=1115

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/...d80352c7e.html

http://rfdesign.com/next_generation_...er_bring_wifi/

http://www.tombridge.com/rta/2005/09..._create_a.html

Just a handful of examples demonstrating that there are numerous ways to get at wifi, both sedentary and mobile.

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

An application to display iCal files would be already something.

Having synchronized contacts would be nice (easy import from VCARDs could do).

Having a unified inbox for SMS and email would rock (I used to have that on my treo (and on an older palm model before then))

Just thoughts

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

I have been a palm/treo user for over 4 years, and can count on the fingers of one hand the times I've opened the calendar app.
I need a device to 1) browse the web in a legible usable manner 2) connect to email 3) do instant messaging and 4) Skype. It needs to be portable and have a good chance of connecting to wifi while i travel.
Right now the N800 looks pretty good for what I need.

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

Sorry your settings do not allow PM... enjoy verkkokauppa, I go there at least twice a week.

S

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

1, 2 are ok on the N800...3 is non existent and 4: If you believe Skype will ever be available on the N800..I have a bridge I need to sell

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

They may, and I mean "may", do a BT sync to the PIM and other info on an Symbian device. They will not do a PIM application on the N800 this year. btw, most of the PIM work is being done in ES, not the N series.

Re: The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed
 

Your response to number 3 is absolutely incorrect. I successfully use GAIM for IM on a regular basis on the 770 and N800.

And please explain the rationale behind your Skype skepticism. Personally I have few reasons to doubt it will happen.