Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

I think I would. But is sad to get to the point in which we have to question this to ourself.
We are willing to pay extra for features should have come as a tested feature. But paying extra seems as the only solution,

In my experience with the N97 and N900, maybe next time would be wise to wait at least 6 month before buying and a more extensive research.

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

Mostly I'd steal it from a warez site but if it were to bring lash 10.1 I's throw in up to 10 bucks without blinking.

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

Why should I pay for open source software?

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

...unless the firmware is locked to a specific IMEI number. I produced a proof of concept for that all the way back in 2003 where the firmware was generated for each registered device....but as I said, let us not get into piracy just yet.

Venemo, it is not all open source. Drivers aren't, apps such as Ovi Maps isn't, so no, you are not just paying for open source software. As an aside, what is wrong in paying for open source software if you like it and find it useful?

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

open source != free as in beer.

I'd pay, but only if Nokia opened up the last of the closed components.

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

What do I look like, a Cisco customer?

When I buy a device or piece of software I expect at least security-related updates and bugfixes to be free.

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

Absolutely not. I refuse to acknowledge Nokia's Cyclopean disdain for its customers with more of my hard-earned Great British Pounds.

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

What is this I don't even

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

this PradaBrada fellow is obviously a discerning gentleman

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

Why thank you, kind sir.

I, for one, appreciate you being one of the only members I've witnessed so far who isn't afraid of telling it like it is, no matter how harsh or brash others may perceive it

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

And I, for one, suspect that Bourdain and PradaBrada are the same person.

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

i'd pay to get clean and full debian on the device.

nokia's policy of crippling debian and thus cutting us off from the broad stream of already existing armel packages is in no way likely to make me consider giving nokia even more money after the bunch i alkready spent on the n900.

otoh, meego should by design be available for the n900 (kernel level drivers are there already and everything above will fit almost any smartphone). to make it run on the n900 would require far less effort than not.
why would one pay money for that?

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

You can make a donation to qole!

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

was thinking the exact same thing there:D

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

I would also like to pay for Microsoft OS updates for my PC.

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

I would pay some money for the firmware update just as long the firmware is worth my money and get free Ovi-map for life with Turn by Turn Voice navigation and flash 10.1. Also full support!

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

i would switch phones b4 i would get bent over and shafted like that.

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

It would depend on what is in the firmware but I would have no problem with it... It would be similar to a commercial desktop OS. If paying guaranteed new features and support I would have no problem! Mac and Windows (among others) currently employ this so why not extend to the mobile platform.

Apple are already doing this, not with the iphone but with the ipod touch, the last update was a $10 charge to get it for the touch and I am sure they will do the same again with 4.0...

A fiver (pounds) or less than $10 us is nothing for a quality community backed functional OS.

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

Yes, as long as this update is released on time and it is not just bug fixes!

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

Nice, no "Ovi Anything" for n900, and as solution, pay for it...
No, sorry. I could pay for MeeGo? Perhaps, as long as a NEW OS is not an update... why not?
But pay for bugfix, features expressly not implemented, free services for others... no, never.

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

As for portin is concerned, I obviously didn't realise that the poll doesn't show the complete sentence, but it was meant to ask whether you would pay to get Meego and porting other apps such as Ovi Maps on the N900. Unfortunately polls can't be edited so I couldn't correct it.

As for Meego availability, I have no doubt that the Meego kernel would be available on N900, but the apps are a different matter altogether. Also, Nokia won't release the source code of its drivers, though we may be able to get the binaries to link against. So while a fully open source system would be great, it still remains a pipe dream. To be fair, that was the reason for this thread to start with... if Nokia won't give us things like Ovi Maps, Flash 10.1 etc. because of commercial reasons, what set of viable commercial reasons can we produce for Nokia to give us those things, besides threatening to move, which we have done on numerous occasions.

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

It is a small sample size but what the poll seems to suggest is that 2/3rd of us would be willing to pay a small fee for firmware upgrades and new features. Again, given the natural biases of the audience, it is probably not the most accurate survey but does seem to indicate that get c.20% of customers to pay for firmware upgrades should be easily achievable if Nokia so wishes.

Qole or anyone else who works for Nokia, are you reading this and can put the results of this survey in front of powers that decide the fate of the N900? Here is a viable alternative to pissing off your customers which would result in a Win-Win for both Nokia and the users. It is a shame though that we had to do the research that your product management guys should have done in the first place.

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

I expect that out of the 100,000 (or more) N900 users, almost anyone who is willing to pay, voted yes in this poll.

This question is moot, since Nokia won't do this for two reasons: they do not intend to spend time developing for N900 and they made it very clear, and there is no sense in doing something that makes a few hundreds of thousands of dollars (at most) and costs millions in bad PR.

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

Nah I wouldn't pay. Considering ive spent around 500 quid already on it, and a software update should always be free as it is part of supporting the device by providing new features as well as fixing issues.
No one pays apple, sony, blackberry, htc etc for updates so why should we?
I will most definetly sell the n900 once a meego device or something comes out bcoz all this hype up on this device and so far we are not getting any support from nokia and its like we are just stuck in the middle of an ocean.
Im surprised nokia is still around considering their buggy devices, lack of support, false commitments. Sometimes I wonder why I keep putting my trust in them.

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

Myself working for a large Electronic Hardware manufactuer who are moving more and more into Software, services and solutions and from Press releases I understood Nokia were looking at software, services and solutions as future ways of making money I'm surprised this has not be asked or tried before?

If a company comes to us and wants what we call a customisation as long as it meets certain creteria which is in some way benficial to us the maker's of the device (ie we are paid covering costs and some profit, good for longterm business etc) and its technically possible then it gets done.

Im sure Nokia would be the same as long as they have a business case which shows its benifcial to Nokia.

As devices get more advanced and the phone contracts in countries get longer plus as devices even a few years old have value in the 2nd hand or pass on to friend or family market. Surely a happy medium has to be created? The resale/longterm value for selling or passing on is goign to get more important as devices get more complex and possibly expensive surely?

As others say happy to pay for extra major features which may have not been thought of when the device designed I would pay for. But fixes no the companies should have a moral duty to provide those foc.

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

i probably would pay out of desperation but as one of nokias flagship phones it should just fully work. nokia keep releasing phones that are half baked and i stupidly keep buying them.

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

Matan, so you think every N900 owner reads maemo.org :-) Given that maximum people who have been online on this site at any given time is c.3.5k, I would say you are off massively

As for why should Nokia do it, as I have already mentioned, it is for three reasons:

• If they don't do it, they piss off their core customers, who would have otherwise bought new Nokia handsets in future
  
• It gives them a new revenue model to try, on a very small user base, which can then be rolled on to others. As someone who has led NPD for about 10 years, I would love to have a small base to try things on which can then form the basis of whether to roll it on to others
  
• Lastly, it gives Nokia an excuse to get out of the low profitability hardware business and get into the more profitable (in the longer term) services business. Also, this can hopefully change the mindset in the Nokia top management who probably still don't get that it is no longer about hardware that you sell and forget, but all about after sales service and how to monetize it

Regarding bad PR, I think the the bad PR they are getting among the N900 owners by not doing anything is probably worse than what would happen if they at least offered them an alternative.

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

I would by principle NEVER pay for firmware, the principle in itself is appalling.

Firmware is code written to make a device work. If Nokia or someone else aren't doing their job properly, end users should not be held responsible for paying for fixing the unfinished, substandard work. And like Protection Money, this principle will encourage companies to spend less time on quality control and feature completion, because then they'd spend less pre-sales to earn more post-sales.

I think it's such a bad idea it shouldn't even be thought out loud.

However,
not all that is called firmware IS firmware these days. Paying for software updates is a whole different concept.

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

Volt

The line between firmware and software updates has long blurred. One man's fix is another man's feature. For example, one could argue that lack of portrait mode in the browser was a bug, but equally Nokia could argue that it is a missing feature, which they never promised would be there. However, yes, security updates and obvious bug fixes should be free, while things like Meego support, Ovi Maps etc. can be charged for updates.

Mandrake (who then became Mandriva and then became bankrupt...bad example I know but the one I have had some experience with) had an interesting model where the paying customers could vote for which new features should be added in the next release (similar to brainstorm), which then allowed the company to prioritise the resource accordingly.

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

all the ppl that said yes are you nuts we shouldnt have to pay for a bloody firmware any way so no i wouldnt pay s**t!

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

the how did you buy your N900?
Didnt you pay for the firmware? Didnt you get any software/os on it?

You pay for the software/firmware when you bought your N900, its not just the hardware.

But who tells us that you also paid for firmware upgrades to come? I think Samsung even doesnt do that at all (if i read some other forums)

And to say firmware... thats not really true, i dont see my Windows 7 install as firmware on my laptop, its an fully blown OS. firmware of my laptop is for example the bios or some firmware in my SSD.. Thats really close to the hardware

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

This thread is a clear indication that the user/community feels at a disadvantage against nokia and they're willing to bargain/compromise to get what they want.

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

No, we won't bend over. Nokia has to ask nicely like every other gentleman would

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

well i said no at first !! but if the majority feels that the ship aint gonna sink well we cant just jump in the water !! so i am with em!!

now what is the next step????????

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

well n900 is based on maemo !! it can never get meego nokia never said !! they said they are working on it but wont completely port it !! and i dont need any other sources !!

so if we need meego we need to pay of course!! but if we need new features i aint gonna pay!!

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

On a mobile device firmware and OS are very blurred... Its not like you can just pick up the n900 or any other phone and just install another OS on it! (well not easily anyway)

And as people are quickly forgetting Apple already had people pay for the ipod touch update and are planning on doing it again and I doubt its bringing much more functionality to that already crippled device!!!

Its not like this has'nt been done before. The question here is more would it be economically viable for nokia to use this model to deliver updates...

If the drivers were open source then I think the maemo.org community could pitch in and this would be a great driver for moving things forwards - cash rewards are a nice incentive...

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

Yes, I would pay. And of course more than 5€ per month. But only for features.

They should fix Bugs as soon as they appears on the Device they have sold! (not on the next Device except I can exchange it for free with my already payed Device - But I would prefer a fix on my own paid device without the need to swap to a other to get rid of the bug)

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

No, I am not quickly forgetting that. I said that I will never pay for a firmware update. Apple customers however, does not seem to fully appreciate anything unless they can pay a premium for it. Or that's just my observation, anyway.

In my opinion, the lines between firmware and the software are too blurred.

If the firmware needs an update, it's not good enough. If there's too much software in the firmware, I believe they should extract it, create as small a kernel as possible, and keep software updates as separate from OS updates as possible. If Nokia had done that with the N900, we would not have had to wait all these extra weeks for PR1.2 debugging, but could have had microfixes and individual software updates. I think it's bad service that you should have to flash the OS to upgrade a mozilla-based web browser. I think it's bad service that we have to wait extra months to fix a ton of bugs because changes in non-essential functionality doesn't pass quality testing. And the idea of paying extra for this bad service, doesn't taste good to me.

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

Even though I do agree with the sentiment, you do realise that this is oneNAND flash that we are dealing with here and thus have finite number of write cycles? So while this approach might have worked for a regular PC, this is not the best approach for a mobile device. Besides, testing the various configurations in an incremental update model would be much more difficult. So I can see why Nokia takes the approach it does.

Re: Would you pay for a firmware upgrade?
 

so?
those are only 256m.
nokia's sick layout of storage space is really no excuse ...