Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone/tablet maemo os brought us?
 

This could possibly go down as the single dumbest comment in the entire history of the Internet

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone/tablet maemo os brought us?
 

Most definitely, but one would still have to spend about 3000 hours of observation and contact in the looney bin to officially get the title.

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone/tablet maemo os brought us?
 

Microsoft Office, 3DS MAX, Windows, MacOS X. none of these even amounts to anything of consequence. Next you will tell me that GIMP is serious competition for photoshop.

openoffice isn't even gpl, and Ubuntu doesn't run on any computers without proprietary drivers, and even then it runs poorly most of the time.

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone/tablet maemo os brought us?
 

Man, if there is one problem I have with open source software its the naming. I mean seriously, it just feels like those pieces of software got GIMP'd

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone/tablet maemo os brought us?
 

So, if someone gives you an answer, you just re-define your question? Nice going on that. You want one example of a "finished product" that does this and pulls in boat loads of money? I have one word for you: Google.

No, I'm not saying to look it up. I'm talking about the company as a whole. They offer tons of services (some "beta", some not), and make tons of money doing so. Check their stock numbers if you don't believe me.

Oh... And all of their servers run this silly OpenSource operating system called Linux. They've also been on a push recently to move the few remaining internal hold outs running Windows over to Linux, citing security concerns. And you may have heard about their recent dip into the mobile world, writing a free OpenSource phone OS called Android.

You did say you wanted just one example right? Because people have already given you like a dozen, and still you're on here whining making a douche of yourself by bad mouthing things, satirizing, and adding qualifiers. Just saying. If you wanted 15 examples, that's fine. But don't ask for "just one" and then balk when people give it to you.

Reality is OpenSource can be pretty stable and worthwhile. It can even be polished and snazzy. Check out FireFox some time. There are plenty of crappy, unfinished, busted close-sourced bits of software and hardware out there too. (Want an old Divx-Streamer box or a Zune player with the now defunct WMV drm junk on it?) Does that mean closed source is useless?

But then why would I try to debate with someone who's clearly already compromised their own standing by continuing to be illogical after their "just one example" is given...

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone os brought us?
 

Oh right, so you're playing the die-hard capitalist who sees freedom as the enemy.

Which qualifies you to comment on the workings of an industry that is largely opaque to you.

Well that's a problem everyone faces, no?

Except no one's doing that. You're stuffing words in other people's mouths.

Yes it is. You're saying "open source is crap" and I want you to point out why, and how closed source software is better. That might be hard, though, seeing as how closed source software is completely opaque from a developmental point of view.

Whose history? Microsoft's?

Oh right, because only BIG BUSINESS can do things properly. Except when they fail miserably, but we just brush that under the carpet (or push the losses on to the public, right?)

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone/tablet maemo os brought us?
 

Logic is futile.

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone/tablet maemo os brought us?
 

firstly I was asked to define what I meant by finished product; gg chief.

second. All of google's good products are proprietary. Chrome (not to be confused with chromium), Android, et al. all have proprietary components. We can't sit here on a forum for an operating system for mobile devices and pontificate about how open we are, when there is simply no open source phone/tablet (try reading the title of the thread next time.) that has all of said features and advantages and benefits of competing products.

Try reading up on what's going on before posting a kneejerk reaction.

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone os brought us?
 

Wow, so THAT's what's wrong with the economy! You guys know everything!

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone/tablet maemo os brought us?
 

when I last looked there are nearly a billion nokia phones running an open source os. Its called symbian.

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone/tablet maemo os brought us?
 

a billion symbian^2/3 phones on the market? where?

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone/tablet maemo os brought us?
 

What gets me is you bounce wildly between wide, sweeping attacks on open source as a whole, then narrowing down to Nokia's mishandling and poor communication when it suits you. Then you suggest that open source is wholly not viable, despite the widespread evidence that this is not true.

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone/tablet maemo os brought us?
 

To be fair it didn't use to be open sourced. Nokia only open sourced it a couple years ago.

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone/tablet maemo os brought us?
 

This is a forums dedicated to an operating system that runs on a Nokia phone. I'm sorry if this offends you. But it is a problem that has implications elsewhere in the opensource community, so I bring that up too.

Don't get me wrong. When I need an operating system to back up some files from my Windows machine I'll go straight to linux (unless I get an ms home server license with my MSDN sub sometime since it's pretty much plug and play.)

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone os brought us?
 

Actually no, I see those who try to fight against the current human society and its progress as the enemy.

Well, what's your excuse? I at least know Stockholm syndrome when I see it

The solution is to stop *****ing and get a job

And you aren't? Please, I hear enough of this garbage from the pinguin club.

The entire gaming industry, for one.

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone os brought us?
 

So you see the RIAA, MPAA, and those who keep pushing to extend copyright law and cripple internet communications as the enemy... right?

And your suggestion that open source software is a fight against progress is quite hilarious.

Man, this is why I'd ban you if I could. Stop painting people with a brush that's convenient, even if it is wholly wrong.

This comment makes no ****ing sense.

Games aren't proof that closed source software is -better-.

Also, I don't have any opposition to closed source software, I run Windows on my desktop and have a Steam install tracking well over 20 games.

I'm sorry, what was your point again? I mean, other than ignorantly bashing people whose processes and motives you fail utterly to understand?

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone/tablet maemo os brought us?
 

How about android and apple phones that do everything that one would expect a phone to do, while an "open source" (I use the term lightly because it's not really) phone doesn't.

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone/tablet maemo os brought us?
 

No, you were given an example that you asked for, and then changed the terms because you didn't want to admit you were wrong.


Yes, there are proprietary components to every bit of hardware. Tell me, do you have the complete source for your BIOS? How about the source for the firmware your CD reader uses to read CDs? Even in open source systems not everything is open. If the API is established and documented enough, it doesn't have to be open to be functional.

I note you didn't say anything about FireFox? An example of a very stable and reputable OpenSource system... Doesn't that qualify for your definition of a "finished product"? If not, then please tell me how it does while something like IE/Windows is different.

It was hardly kneejerk, and I did read the thread. In fact, I was debating if I should even chime in, since clearly you've set yourself up for failure here (with your "one example" bit), and will never admit that you were wrong.

As for the post from the OP, asking what has this open source brought us: Lots.

The internet would not be what it is today without OpenSource. Apache, Mosaic, Mozilla, FireFox, POP servers/clients. Everything the modern person perceives as "the web" is based on OpenSource programs. Even the now closed proprietary systems (like IIS, Exchange, and the like) are modeled around emulating the protocols and functionality started by OpenSource programs.

What has the linux phone/tablet market brought to us? Quite a bit, though it may not be completely obvious to you quite yet. It wasn't obvious in 1992 how a Finnish kid and a little group of friends working on a mini-Unix kernel would change anything either. Nor was it obvious in 1993 that Mosaic and Apache were about to change the face of the internet. This is just the start... But I can tell you as someone that's participated in such things in the past, you can never be sure which thing turns into a rocket and which sputters out.

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone os brought us?
 

It looks to me like you've learned some small bit of psychobabble and you want to apply it to everything. You would have to write a thesis to support your wild comparison and I doubt it would be read or approved.

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone/tablet maemo os brought us?
 

My apologies its only 330 million devices, with another 100 million in 2010, all running open sourced symbian irrespective of how it got there. I beleive Google just open sourced a certain video codec, and Qt was open sourced from more restrictive roots. There must be something to this open sourcing "crap".

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone/tablet maemo os brought us?
 

All right... all right... but apart from a stable OS and one of the most used research starting points and the most widely deployed webserver and an RDMS and a multiplatform high-level programming language and a popular web browser and a popular web browser engine and an ever more detailed world map that was instrumental in the Haiti disaster relief effort... what have the Romans done for us?

Freedom!

What!? Oh... Freedom, yes... shut up!

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone/tablet maemo os brought us?
 

Go back and read it again. Try to comprehend what a human being might reasonably mean with the term "finished product".

On Firefox: Yes, the choice to intentionally not be compatible with the de facto standard video codec due to some nebulous concept of "freedom" doesn't affect it's viability at all.

On proprietary hardware: you are making my case for me, thanks.

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone/tablet maemo os brought us?
 

I hate having to sit here and defend an entire concept from the piecemeal (and poor) arguments from people who don't quite know what they're talking about.

I can download the source, build, and install Android myself. Aside from a handful of drivers, how is that not open source?

Well, channeling GeneralAntilles it's because the community can't influence the direction of the project, but that's a debate to be had with those who aren't wholly uninformed as to what is going on.

Maemo was never a phone OS to start. Hell I probably fit right into the intended use case, I use few voice minutes but hammer my data connection. Is that the WRONG way to use it? Am I wrong (and you shut up, PradaBrada) for using it the way I do, which fits my purposes perfectly?

What sold me on it was the use of standard *nix technologies based on existing, active open source projects. Less reinvention of the wheel, focus on the UI (which has been done well) and not treating me like the enemy, which Apple (and most Android device manufacturers) do.

Something being open source has NOTHING to do with how a company like Nokia executes a product. NOTHING.

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone/tablet maemo os brought us?
 

nice trolling ZShakespeare and PradaBrada. I have to quote a line from one of my favorite show: "you only have desire to speak and not to seek the truth". I hope in real life, you are not as shallow and illogical as you have demonstrated here.

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone/tablet maemo os brought us?
 

android: have fun using your google phone with no google apps.

the "maemo is not a phone" argument: both Android and iPhone are fantastic mobile computers as well as phones then. It doesn't matter what labels you stick on it.

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone/tablet maemo os brought us?
 

As a general rule, a finished product is a dead product. Windows is not a finished product judging from the number of midnight updates I see. Open source is a concept that has some similarity with science. Science rarely produces a finished product. But it does have its uses.

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone os brought us?
 

Yes, the MPAA and RIAA aren't solutions to piracy, changing of pricing or a better distribution model is.

If it is solely used for the sake of being a free alternative or for the fact it doesn't let the users get classed with the rest of the "Windows sheep", which are ironically the two main reason half of the pinguin club uses it.

Thanks for the notice.

Actually it makes perfect sense!

They prove that an open gaming industry is almost inherently not profitable.

Good to know.

Open source sucks hurr durr!

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone/tablet maemo os brought us?
 

Lack of Google's custom apps doesn't cripple the device, and there are alternative app stores for Android.

Indeed, when I was looking at phones my first choice was Android (iPhone was never an option, due to no HW keyboard.) But Maemo had a technical base that I liked better.

I find nothing wrong with the N900 that can be blamed on Open Source, neither the fundamental software nor the concept. Any flaws lie with Nokia.

Can you get your argument back on track or are you going to keep bouncing around?

EDIT: More blather

Glad we can agree on something.

Wait, so are you suggesting that there might be VALID REASONS for using and developing open source? Or are you suggesting that "Not Buying Microsoft is Communism?" I'm trying to get your point, other than attacking Open Source for being Open Source.

Well, no it doesn't. People get jobs writing open source software. Some people contribute freely.

And I've never argued against it, seeing as how they're an entertainment product with little value beyond the initial play. But then you have the recent Humble Indie Bundle that had most of the companies release their engine sources as open source software.

Well that's all I'm hearing from you and ZShakespeare.

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone/tablet maemo os brought us?
 

@OP - It's brought an option that wasn't there before. Competition is good for us consumers.

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone os brought us?
 

It was actually already written and approved by a jury of esteemed peers! Here it is:

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...3&postcount=42

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone/tablet maemo os brought us?
 

Way to qualify yourself again.... So choosing the engine that started the entire world wide web phenomina is for some reason dumb? You do realize that Mosaic, the first web browser ever (which was OpenSource) was created by the same person that later made and marketed Netscape (which did well for years before MS decided to make their own browser), who then returned that source base back to the OpenSource arena to form Mozilla/FireFox. You realize this, right?

If you think that ANY other broswer is the "de facto standard", then frankly, you have no idea what you're talking about. And the fact that you're using the web to try to make this point just shows how ignorant you are of your own history.

You've lost your argument (and your dignity). The fact that you can't see it yet just makes it all the more painful. I'd call you a belittling name or such, but I already pity you enough that it would be inhumane to do so. Like kicking a lame cross-eyed puppy.

Good luck "justifying" your twisted point of view to those that will bother to listen. I'm sure you can find a few people that will ditto your warped take on reality. Maybe you can all start your own radio show and promote close-sourced development... :D

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone/tablet maemo os brought us?
 

I'm amazed noone has mentioned Red hat. Based on open source software and a Fortune 500 company.

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone/tablet maemo os brought us?
 

TIVO...it runs linux under the hood.

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone/tablet maemo os brought us?
 

Red hat is a bit of a mixed signal. A lot of their stuff is copyrighted, but a lot of their stuff is also open. If Red Hat were completely open, there would be no need for CentOS. But, the nice thing about companies dabbling in this here, obviously defunked and horrid eco-system known as "open source" - is they like to share and play well with each other. Red Hat and CentOS actually have very good communication with each other. I took an RHCE boot camp and asked about CentOS in the classroom, and the Red Hat paid employee said clearly by all means - use that at home to prepare for the exam if you don't have a RHEL 5 license.

Anyway... I'm certainly not going to be answering either shakespear or PradaQueen if they choose to argue with me.

Here's my only real question: Maemo repository gods: Where is the extended attributes in the repository for me to block Prada and Shakespeare from ever downloading my apps :D. I mean, it shouldn't matter: Since they aren't using any open source at all anyway.. I wouldn't want them to get any use out of something they hate so much.. that would make them hypocritical.. we all know they aren't that.

(We just all have to realize: They don't have a single free app on their android phone (nor run the OS, they just have phones with Google's closed 3 whole apps on it), don't have a single free open app on their iPhone, and don't have an N900 or run any of the apps in our N900 repositories.)

Because.. you know.. if they can't make that claim.. well that totally debunks their entire stance right there.

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone/tablet maemo os brought us?
 

"I define finished as a product that works completely as advertised and has all the features, advantages, and benefits of a similar product in the market."

Ok, here's a question for you eminent logicians: If the above is the definition of a finished product, where does the first finished product come from? It can't be finished, because it doesn't have all the advantages etc of an already finished product, because there are no finished products yet.

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone/tablet maemo os brought us?
 

What came first: The chicken or the egg? :D :D :D

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone/tablet maemo os brought us?
 

Thanks for the history lesson. I tried firing it up and making a post but it didn't work. Must be open source

I guess because it's based on the first web browser means it must be the best even if the clownshoes in charge of what used to be my favorite piece of software are ruining it in the name of "freedom". The rest of the internet will move on. Hopefully flash will go the same way.

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone/tablet maemo os brought us?
 

(Bold mine)Sorry to interrupt, but who tied you down and is making you feed the trolls?

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone os brought us?
 

Same goes for hating on open source.

Inanity is a two-way street.

Re: what has "open source" and "linux" phone/tablet maemo os brought us?
 

http://imagebin.org/index.php?mode=image&id=100377

The fact that obvious trolls are spreading FUD without people to clean up after them.