Re: What's the problem in Nokia!? People is not working as a team!!
 

This is exactly how Nokia is making money of their NIT.
Get used to it.

Re: What's the problem in Nokia!? People is not working as a team!!
 

1. I doubt they've made any amount of meaningful 'money' off NIT.

2. I don't have to.

Re: What's the problem in Nokia!? People is not working as a team!!
 

I end up doing database design every once in a while, so I'm actually interested if you have a good reason for this?

Or did you perhaps mean NEVER EVER in user interface?

I often end up using id as secondary sort term, I find it a practical way to make sure that the order of items is consistent across queries when primary sort term happens to be same...

Re: What's the problem in Nokia!? People is not working as a team!!
 

Guys this is simply Old Media and New Media ... Maemo seems to be a make work type project. Also Nokia is a company who for intents and purposes doesn't know how to talk to the community even though you have employees showing up from time to time. Showing up to not share information is counter-intuitive to the whole openness mantra. Nokia has no follow through, like someone who you've gone used to letting you down repeatedly.

Like I've said before and if their are Shareholders amongst the forum users, demand OPK to resign and also fire the entire top brass ... heads must roll before the entire company loses whatever remaining credibility currently exists.

Re: What's the problem in Nokia!? People is not working as a team!!
 

jeeze i find it as unacceptable as EVEYRONE - i hate nokia because i bought the n900 for its internet/multimedia tablet premise. Of course, no flash 10.1, and I am pissed off as I am sold down the river.

But the fact is, Nokia doesnt even READ these forums. Nokia doesnt CARE. Nokia has manoevered the community here into acting as free tech support for the n900, and like ALL tech support when confronted with "average" users, they get abused and hence the bad feeling around this forum now. Ari Jaaski doesnt even bother defending the n900 on his blog anymore.

Fact is, you can shout yourself horse and you will STILL get no response. You ahve no legal recourse (unless you really are prepared to sue them, are you ?) and as I stated the community while it provides excep[tional support, is not OBLIGED to help you.

I find it ironic ppl will accuse me of being a fanboy hahaa - but the fact is you have NO recourse except the market place. Go to another company, buy their phone and tell EVERYONE in your network not to buy Nokia. Only when Nokia sees a huge dent in sales will it change.

Any other suggestion or otherwise (i.e. "to be patient") is just a temporary fix. Nokia will NOT care until its sales get dented.

And yes, if Nokia does not change, the company will die - and the companies that DO give a crap survive. This is how the world works.

Re: What's the problem in Nokia!? People is not working as a team!!
 

Wow. You have strong feelings about stuff. I have no idea what you are talking about, but nice to see that things matter to you.

Nokia didn't let me down at all. They stuck a 'mobile computer' on the shelf in the form of an N900 and I bought one. I love it. It does exactly what they said it would do. Couple of minor bugs here and there, but it has an operating system that allows me to talk to all the hardware. I don't recall Nokia ever saying they would provide nice little GUI's to drive it all, but the hooks are there in the SDK if you want to roll something on your own.

It's NOT a phone, try to keep that in mind. Not only that, but many of you are complaining about things that Nokia have absolutely no control over - Flash 10.1 for example - get in touch with Adobe, Nokia aren't to blame. Pointing fingers in the wrong direction there.

Re: What's the problem in Nokia!? People is not working as a team!!
 

Unfortunately you're in minority here.
I'm sick of all there people whining on false premises and hopes they have etc. N900 is what it is and Nokia is acting as usual.

P.S. Don't mind the bashing for saying "it's not a phone", that will follow in next posts I'm sure.
If you paint a horse in black-white stripes it does not become a zebra. Same for NIT stickered with phone application. :)

Re: What's the problem in Nokia!? People is not working as a team!!
 

People who raise "fanboy" card are quite often people who have really big problems with understanding context and what is being said. Like e.g. people who raise "pedophile" card against you when you try to criticizes chilprn blocking methods that just clean up stuff under carpet but do not do anything to main problem or people who raise "nazism"- or "racisms"-card when you try to have constructive conversation about integration and multiculturalisms problems. It´s just quite often end closure where someone with these cards shows how he/she has just problems to listen/read and doesn't even want to listen or try to understand your point. Same thing happened in kindergarten when some people put fingers in their ears and started yelling but this "card" sht happens between grownups :|

Re: What's the problem in Nokia!? People is not working as a team!!
 

Okay, a little bit oftopic. I will try to keep it short.

It's okay as a secondary sort item. It's also okay when there is never a scenario when you need to insert data between 2 others. At example import during a sync data from a other source. Like a stack of cards in a poker game. This will fail if you use ID's as the one and only sort item (like the SMS application does). Your Data is viewed in a order you have never thought about during the desing.
A ID in a recordset is per definition a unique identifier. This is the reason it exists. It's indexed by default. If you have only data fields with a fixed lenth the engine can find it very fast if you "Select Text From Table Where ID = 6;".
In many scenarios more than a single programm or task is accessing a database. The same happens at the N900.

Lets keep the SMS storage as example. I don't really know how it works internally. I guess how it works simply by my own knowledge and because of that what I can see as a user from outside. My example is very simplified:

You have the Conversations application, the SMS Messages are sort by ID instead of receiving time. You begin to write a SMS, close the programm and your text is stored as draft in the database. The Conversation has only to store the ID somewhere to know it is draft and the next time you will open the application it has to show up your unsent draft. Lets take the number "521" as ID for this message.
Now you start a sync with a other application, import old messages. To show it in the correct order (receiving time) you have to reorder the ID's and insert several Numbers before the number 521. You have to twist the engine only because your view does someting strange. In the most databases this is not trivial. Its not designated to change a ID of a recordset. Its forbidden. You have to make a copy of the table with new IDs, delete the original and rename the new Table.
Now the user opens the Conversation application. This program doesn't know anything about the reconstruction. It only knows "continue with Message 521" - in the best case it will open the wrong message... but it can also end in a crash because there is suddenly a receiving date of a unsend message, or a sending date in a draft. It can end up in a loop or in many rendering bugs and a broken layout because there are many messages after the draft shown. Many things and bugs can happend the programmer has never thought about. And actually he has not to care. HIS part of the programm worked just fine. He have not broken the rules.

A SMS storage database is not soooo important... but try to imagine what could happen when you build such a scenarion with a coustomer database and a billing system. Not with the reason to assign new IDs because of sorting... imagine it because you misuse the ID as a customer number. And now your management assimilate a competitor and you have to merge the customer database. (leave the country as fast as you can) ;)

Conclusion: Never change a ID and never built a scenario it could requires to change a ID some day in the future. The maemo programmer are aware of this. Because of this there is also a warning at the Bug report #7512. When you do something like this, reboot the device immediately!

But the Bugfix is still not on scedule despite it's very easy to do: Order by receiving date or "storage_time" instead of the ID. And to compensate the application slowdown index the "storage_time". It's simple to change a "storage_time" by a other application to fix the ordering and get it how it should be. Its a datafield like many else. But changing a ID is a reason to sell your degree on ebay. :D

Re: What's the problem in Nokia!? People is not working as a team!!
 

Hehehehe, yeah I am passionate as I have been a Nokia consumer for such a long time, since the 5190's. Now this isn't about rank or who came first, but rather an expectation of good products from Nokia. Lately all I have seen from Nokia is alright products, to sub-par. I'm seeing the pattern the Nokia as a company is very short-sighted and doesn't really get behind good ideas. Nokia N-Gage and the ability to game on phones was a Nokia thing ... now EA and the likes have games coming out for the iPhone ... difference is that a company like Apple as much as they say they are clever, are rather more willing to risk it all on a product they believe for that they are visionaries not because they were the first. I see the N900 model being what the iPhone will be at 3-4 iterations from now, running a more PC like OS ... MeeGo is a restart of what Maemo5 already achieved what gives? Also with Symbian lurking around and not being fully banished to the nethers of cheap smartphones (ie. not N-Series) it doesn't convey a message of fully getting behind MeeGo. Yes it is not a phone but a mobile desktop, exactly why it should be eligible for a OS update. Phones get specs enforced on them, not mobile desktops ... think about that Nokia.

I am just wondering what is happening with Nokia. It is cautious, slow to release (Apple says this is the new phone, next week 600k should be ready in the mail, Nokia you wait 6months to 8), they are not as open as they proclaim, their communications/ PR is atrocious. They will support 4-5 mobile OS's ... kind of stretching themselves thin. The leadership must be crazy to put a giant like Nokia in this position.

Re: What's the problem in Nokia!? People is not working as a team!!
 

Apologize that I am not intended to start a fire here.

I did study before i bought n900. It is market as a Nokia *smart*phone so my expectation should include full USSD support (e.g. **21*xxxxxxxx#) or google contact sync which is in most of phone supported in market nowaday. I dont expect Nokia to fix the bugs promptly but these should come in default (but not come in the form of bugs or wishlist).

If you go to those threads/bugs about USSD and google sync (MfE), answer is ridicous...
- USSD, they fixed few but not all codes. What people reported the code, they fixed one from bugs report!!
- google sync (MfE). thread told google implement MfE not from standard so n900 can't sync. Sybmian got procedure and techologiy how to make it work. Why not N900?

Re: What's the problem in Nokia!? People is not working as a team!!
 

I would just like to note that there are almost no 'old hands' responding to this thread. That means the people who know what is going-on are ignoring it.

Think about what that says for a minute.

Re: What's the problem in Nokia!? People is not working as a team!!
 

Ahhh, thanks for your response : ) I see more clearly what you mean now. I agree with you for the most part too. Between the N97 / 5800 / X6 etc., there really aren't any significant differences - effectively (give or take an FM transmitter, compass, memory allocations, and a few odds and ends) they are all basically the same old beast under the covers.

From various forums and sources it seems as though MeeGo will see life on the N900 in the not too distant future. I believe the only thing Nokia have said is that they wont be releasing it on the N900 as a kind of OTA firmware update thing, but it is very probable that we will be able to flash more user friendly versions of it ourselves - naturally Nokia are a little evasive on answers, probably for commercial reasons, but the MeeGo forum is quite informative - I think the N900 has a good future ahead of it. I hope it does anyway.

Re: What's the problem in Nokia!? People is not working as a team!!
 

Knowing Nokia, if a lot of people said they would NOT recommend it to a friend then they would probably drop support for the N900 even faster. Instead of reflecting on the root causes they would just jump to the conclusion that since it is not well received they should just dump it and bring out a new phone!

Re: What's the problem in Nokia!? People is not working as a team!!
 

And who cares about Nokia then? They already dump N900, why the hell they didn't dump N9 (ok, next meego) in 6 month after release?

As for me I will not recommed Nokia's phone at all because of zero support.

Re: What's the problem in Nokia!? People is not working as a team!!
 

You have to have a twisted mind and be a Linux geek to really enjoy N900.
Thus I recommended N900 to two of my work colleagues and they love it. But I not recommended N900 to several of my normal friends and they are happy with they iPhones and other crapPhones.
N900 fits very specific needs and is not for everyone. (Duh... If something is for everyone it's for noone.)

Re: What's the problem in Nokia!? People is not working as a team!!
 

First one showing phone working flawless with every single piece of other software today is the winner.

I cannot see that winner anywhere ! Because it just doesn't exists.
(not even on iphone, I know that from my collegues)

Every piece of software has it's life cycle; from birth to yourth, then to adulthood and finally to midde age, where most of things work to retirement, when everything again starts to falling apart.

Enjoy what you have; it is still one of most usable professional mobile devises on market, and let hype on global markets go by.

Hypes comes and goes, only good devices last.
For me this piece of HW will last long as it has everything I need/wish (VPN, ssh client, KB to use that shell, and I can even talk with it ! (including non-work calls via skype for free) also including working calendar and email ... Thus no need open laptop for every support call I get).

Re: What's the problem in Nokia!? People is not working as a team!!
 

I doubt that anybody realistic will want a perfect phone - you'll never buy one.

But what people really want is a phone that has less problems in the stuff they use everyday, support that lasts more than just a quarter or two; and since we're here at TMO (formerly ITT) we'll want dev tools that admins will love but easy to set up apps that shorten a lot of the stuff that we do... and an e-mail client that's actually not bad.

I don't like lugging around my laptop all of the time. The N900 excels in this area when it's time to admin a linux or VNC capable box. But the e-mail client is downright horrible. And a phone stack that doesn't seen so "tacked on" like it's an afterthought.

Back to the subject matter; the parts within Nokia are not talking to each other. And worse, they're not talking to us, the consumer either.

Re: What's the problem in Nokia!? People is not working as a team!!
 

Everyone writing to this thread need to realise something especially the OP, Nokia are a money making machine like any other manufacturer and to say they are NOT working as a team is so wrong !.

The N900 was a complete disaster for Nokia so they are doing what any company would do in these circumstances... shelving the lot and moving on because pointless to waste time = money on a disasterous product.

It will get Meego IF it turns out to be an easy option and not lose time and money futhering a disaster.

People need to get real and realise facts here.

Re: What's the problem in Nokia!? People is not working as a team!!
 

N900 was 1st one having VPN+ssh+KB after communicator !
It was wrongly advertised, that's all ... and then again, tell me company, whom makes initial annoucement 100% correct today.
I know so many, whom are not able to do that ...

Re: What's the problem in Nokia!? People is not working as a team!!
 

And the reason Nokia are not talking to us is very simple.... how does a company like Nokia tell end user... oh sorry we screwed up so we decided not to do any more work on this product and instead we will bring out a better one !.

Re: What's the problem in Nokia!? People is not working as a team!!
 

Openmoko could vpn+ssh. In fact, I'm sure other phones could do that before the N900.

Now, about their marketing... it wasn't really marketed outside of Europe, and even then, it was sparse. And it was marketed as a mobile computer with phone capabilities.

Re: What's the problem in Nokia!? People is not working as a team!!
 

Here's where we're just going to have to disagree.

Nokia didn't "screw up". They didn't take advantage of the Maemo situation, they haven't opened up the OS's (past and present) fully... and they've not supported the community that supports them.

The N900 did what they wanted it to do... set a new path for their devices.

Re: What's the problem in Nokia!? People is not working as a team!!
 

My zaurus SL-5500 could tunnel VNC over SSH... never needed VPN back then, but I think there was support for freeswan and ipsec.

Circa 2002, it has full linux distro with nice slide out qwerty keyboard.

http://www.linuxfordevices.com/files...3/open-thm.jpg

Re: What's the problem in Nokia!? People is not working as a team!!
 

Any source for this?

AFAIK the reality is the contrary. Nokia is very surprised by the good reception of N900 and sales are exceeding the expectations a lot.

Re: What's the problem in Nokia!? People is not working as a team!!
 

You need to listen to your own words because really... it says it all !.

Re: What's the problem in Nokia!? People is not working as a team!!
 

Why don't you read all the post's in this thread and a few other threads that say sad facts about the N900 and the way Nokia have left it... does that give an indication of support to this community and the device itself or are you just deluding yourself :p

Come back to this thread in a month or so and if things have changed support wise from Nokia then i and many many others will be happy indeed.

Re: What's the problem in Nokia!? People is not working as a team!!
 

I'm not asking for community opinions, but for the source of the information that N900 was a disaster for Nokia.

If you are suggesting reading this thread for facts, I guess you are confusing fact with opinion. Facts are usually supported by numbers. Opinions are supported by feelings.

Re: What's the problem in Nokia!? People is not working as a team!!
 

Opinions normally come from facts so do you see the mass of support from Nokia for the N900?.

Re: What's the problem in Nokia!? People is not working as a team!!
 

Like the opinions about religion then? They all come from fact don't they...LOL

Re: What's the problem in Nokia!? People is not working as a team!!
 

To me it looks pretty obvious (considering timing of events related to meego et all) Nokia decided to ditch Maemo regardless of N900's success, possibly already before it hit the shelves.

Nothing to do with N900, everything to do with nature of this industry.

Re: What's the problem in Nokia!? People is not working as a team!!
 

VPN + SSH, sure .. but with qwerty ...

Sure others can do it, but My point was excatly this; my N900 does it along many other things.

Day after day I use it, it is more and more enjoyable device to have in professional point of view.

ps. you actually can hold it as you like and make phonecalls :D

Re: What's the problem in Nokia!? People is not working as a team!!
 

I don't think Nokia realises the ramifications though. I will give you an example. I have always bought Nokias and since my extended family and many of my friends rely on me for recommending handsets, many have bought Nokias. I reckon that I have directly and indirectly led to the sale of c.100 Nokia handsets till now over the last 5-10years, which comes to between 10 and 20 Nokia handsets per year. This year, for the the first time, I ordered a HTC Desire for my wife, and I think I would be recommending others to move away from Nokia as well, not because I am unhappy with my N900 but because I am unhappy with Nokia's treatment of the N900 owners.

I think many of us on this forum are opinion makers in our small groups. So even though the N900 owners are a minority, we influence the opinion of a large section of Nokia customers, and it is the magnitude of the impact a minority can have, especially a minority as resourceful as this forum, that Nokia doesn't understand. So it has nothing to do with industry as far as I am concerned and all to do with a company which has forgotten about the things that are really important.