Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

I agree with gerbick that theft is theft. We could get into a similar argument that's raging over the music/video games industry.

If you've obtained something that doesn't belong to you through sources other than official, if you've found something of great value lying in the street, bar or on the bus and have made no attempt to relocate it to it's rightful owner, then it constitutes theft.

But then, all that depends on the state of law and order where you live, and we are talking about Russia here.

The thing we've also got to consider here is how many Chinese sweatshops are now churning these things out and what other manufacturers are capitalizing on information gleaned from this guy.

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

i think eldar was nokia's leak guy...many of his screen shots showed OPK as a contact as well as the fact that NO ONE else in the world has the sort of "contacts" he has...i mean no other blog could get into contact with "inside leakers"???...i find that hard to believe....there is no reason for me to think that after all of these years that nokia NOW decided to take action against eldar....he has been doing this since the n90 and even before! somehow i think something went wrong...may it be too many bad reviews of nokia devices? i once looked forward to his reviews and ill admit i loved getting to know whats next...but i think he crossed a line where he believed he was invincible and became egotistical....and well...we know the rest of the story....

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

No, thats so-called IP; not theft, but copyright infringement; not theft. Theft requires physical material to be taken away from possesion of its rightful owner. In the case of copyright infringement the original owner does not lose possesion of their property. Hence, totally different, and in fact extremely difficult to compare.

There is no way how you can bend copyright infringement to be 'theft'. There are situations which are exception. For example, if the master copy is stolen. But then its theft of the master copy. Another example would be destroying the original and only original. But then that'd be copyright infringement + vandalism (or something like that).

We both know why that wasn't publicly discussed...

Or perhaps they weren't bothered by him until he crossed the line of bad mouthing prototypes as if they were finished products.

Some say bad publicity is publicity. I believe cattle goes for popularity without thinking, and that for those who don't follow this trend the first words they read on a device are very important. Like the first time you meet someone.

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

Those are not necessarily real contacts, that was part of the taunting he regularly did. Also, I don't think people like OPK are involved in operative decisions like what happens with bloggers. Maybe in a Jobs-controlled company, but IMHO Nokia does not fit that image. Also, if your contacts are that high up the ladder it might actually be more difficult to get to the actual hardware without everyone knowing it came to you 'blessed'.

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

About time.

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

Ridiculous assertion. Very simple:

a) Receive a smuggled prototype that was never supposed to be released
b) Tear it apart as if it is a finished product gleefully exclaiming how shitty Nokia products are
c)...
d) Profit (with people like you)

Fact of the matter is that he has stolen property and a beef against Nokia - no conflict of interest of course with being a consultant for competitors either, right?

I sort of agree with this. I did like seeing the early scoop reviews but it was not always clear when the review was of a real production unit or some smuggled preproduction unit so it would be often the case where what he would write would be drastically different from the experience using the production version.

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

I don't so much have a problem with him managing to get his hands on prototype hardware. In fact, I think that's great. What's not so great is, as others have said, reviewing it as if it's final hardware and software, even when it's the better part of a year before release and worse, refusing to give the stuff back.

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

Do you think Nokia will let him slide if he does favorable reviews of the leaked hardware?

Does this look like 'conditional' freedom of speech then?

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

He's been hammering them hard for over a year, so I don't think it's really got anything to do with his unfavorable opinion regarding Nokia's recent efforts.

I think they'd probably let it go if he'd give back their stuff.

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

They better not. Reviews should be critical. Post the positives and the negatives.

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

Can anyone actually name one Nokia phone since N95 that was given bad reviews (proto) before release but was awesome once released? The only decent phone released since N95 is the N900 but it only caters to developers and uber geeks

The problem is that Nokia still thinks its 2005 and there are no comparable competitors.

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

Bingo. I feel as if Nokia is stuck in a time before competition and where smartphone just meant "charge a lot" and support very little.

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

Strange, I thought the Nokia E71 and the 5800XM were sold by the millions worldwide, and were snatched off the shelfs as if they were hot cakes...

But maybe me and you don't live on the same planet?

btw, the N95 was released at the end of 2006.

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

What, the E71, E72, E63 et.c. don't count as good devices? The E61i was pretty damn good, too. My half-alive E71 here feels dejected now ;)
The N900 and N95 are the only N series I have owned, so I don't know how the rest are.

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

I have the E71, its an awesome phone for its purpose, 5800 is just a cheap touchscreen phone on contract so it sold very well. Neither of these phones were bashed as prototypes..

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

Gizmodo did not tear apart the iPhone... They did Marketing for Apple
Eldar clearly has ties to Samsung. The past 12 months there were mostly positive claims about Samsung but negative claims towards Nokia.

For its price (completely different price league as the fruit phone) the N97 mini (not the N97) is a good phone for many use cases and I am loving my N900 -

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

e72 is a nice phone. Maps, radio, google & yahoo mail apps all work without any hassle. Battery life is pretty good too. Pain to find the thing you want to fiddle with in the sub-menus though.

Mish.

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

I had the N95,N95 8gb, N96, N86, N97, 5530 and just really disliked the N96 and N97. The rest was quite good.

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

Am I the only one that thinks they (put here, Apple, Nokia, whatever) should embed secret watermarking on their prototypes desktops? This guys all post screenshots... and.. uh.. as far as I know some neat watermarking could easily go through that. Some good watermarking could go even through actual pictures of the phone with its screen turned on.

(Or maybe I should apply a patent for this?)

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

no **** sherlock?!?

does your firmware prevent adding contacts named such as OPK?

:D

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

the problem is that you can turn 180 degrees in couple seconds, big companies must turn more slowly. what do you think Qt was purchased for?

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

Concerning the theft issue: I think if Murtazin still has the phones, then he is a thief. Also, he says on that terrible TechCrunch video that he doesn't have the phones. This would then make him a liar as well. How he actually could have the phones (to keep) is beyond me, however. I mean how do you get the phone out of the company with nobody coming looking for it? And how can it all be this one guy? I also feel that there's the real inside man that Nokia's after

Concerning his reviews: I think Murtazin has been pretty "correct" in his reviews. I think when he bashes Symbian^3, then he is absolutely correct about a lot of things, eventhough they are only his opinions. For eg. Sym^3 isn't spectacularly reworked, and this is also what he said. Who disagrees with this? And after our experiences with firmware updates to S60 phones, not to mention PR1.2., who here honestly thinks that the final version of the Sym^3 on N8 will be somehow radically different to the one we see on the prototypes? Is Nokia known for frequent and high-quality soft/firmware updates?

Concerning the talk about good Nokia phones: I think Nokia got away with the 5800XM because people were still unsure of how well Nokia was keeping up at this time. The 5800XM did its job, it was something completely new from Nokia and it wasn't expensive. In a way its maybe Nokia's best effort to understand the common phone user. It was only the N97 that tipped the scales and the dislike spread like wildfire. I think in this sector Murtazin has done a good job of shaking Nokia up by saying what's what. He's dissed the phones, the public has gotten their hands on the phones and then agreed with Murtazin.

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

IMO, Nokia are making themselves look pretty silly and I don't think this kind of tactic suits them. If they should take legal action against anybody, I would suggest they start at Symbian's door :p

BTW, Eldar is the reason I bought a n900.

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

Amazingly enough, Nokia turns so slowly that they have to rush and release half-finished devices (N97, N900). Nokia's problem appear to be internal politics, poor management that cannot be fired or lack of ability to attract top software developers.

On the plus side, Nokia's hardware-design is top-notch, the N9 form factor is close to perfection...absolutely gorgeous!

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

When I think of Nokia I think of the military R&D. Different factions vying for power, trying to get money to develop their own product. The end result, money is split or projects get ignored or malnourished.

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

Sorry for breaking in like this fellas. I've been thinking about this since I first saw this thread pop up... actually, I'm kind of amazed the thread is still going. :)

***

So as a comment to the OP...

Isn't this Boldar dude a member or suttin?

Shouldn't he be in this thread by now?

Someone call this dude up.
Inquiring minds want to know...

What brought him around last time?
Did he Google his own clang self to find out who was talking about what he did or said; or was it because someone contacted "The most interesting Man in the World" as I recall seeing him called here in the past.

Maybe Nokia and perhaps the police just want to question him because they find him interesting?



I betcha if we post his name three times, one post after another with no other info and without interruption he'll appear in this thread like Betelgeuse or suttin'.

It might be worth a try. :)

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

I think that since he is under a law-suit, speaking about this matter to people isn't going to be something his lawyers are willing to let him do. I think this is the reason why there wasn't much of content in what he said to TechCrunch besides that had nothing and knew of nothing.

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

now you are mixing two completely different things....

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

What do you guys think of this analysis:

http://mynokiablog.com/2010/07/12/el...#comment-19950

:

I think, some things should be cleared. For a foreigner, it is quite hard to judge on the situation, but I am russian, and I have been reading Murtazins site for 5 years. I have a much wider judgement on this issue, being able to read both the articles on the official Mobile-Review and his blog. Also there are lots of alternative opinions.
There is one more thing, that makes my judgment more relevant. I am a layer in Russia, so I can provide some info about the legal situation.
Let’s get to the facts:
1) Murtazin tells us that Nokia is spreading false info. Currently he is appealing to the fact, that Nokia calls him a blogger. Actually according to russian law it is correct, because mobile-review.com is not registered as a source of mass information. According to russian laws, only a person working for a source of mass information can appeal to a journalist’s status. Without being employed in a source of mass information, being a member of a journalists society he is still just a blogger. His site in legal terms is just a personal web page. This means that he cannot legally protect his sources.
2) Nokia has requested to start a criminal investigation against Murtazin. This means, that summarizing the definition of the criminal act is a job for legal authorities. Nokia has just put a request on that. He is being accused of violating the Criminal Code of Russia, specifically in breaking the law prohibiting collection of private corporate information which is classified as trade secrets.
3) His contacts with his informant on learning info about N8 is illegal, because he was well informed about the status of the info classified as trade secret. Reproduction of this info to the audience is illegal, as it was well known to Murtazin, that it consisted a trade secret. Murtazin received prototypes of Nokia legally before, so he was well informed, that any info about them is a trade secret.
4) His conclussions were actually misleading even analyzing the prototype. He made such things before – a while ago he was bashing Sony Ericsson X10 in his blog, but it wasn’t reproduced massively and wide audience didn’t see that. Actual work of the final product was quite fine.
5) The problem that he is not a journalist according to russian law, as I commented, so there is no actual connection between him and journalists ethics.
6) It is hard to jusdge, if he is a Samsung consultant, but the massive amount of ads for them, shows that he is valuable partner for them.
7) As Nokia N8 is being given to some people through legal procedures, and with abiding Non disclosure agreements according to russian law it is illegal for a person to give away trade secrets, if a person was informed or was able to understand, that the info is a trade secret. Murtazin told us many times, that he is perfectly informed about security measures about prototypes.
8) Murtazin lies about relations with Nokia corp. His relations got worse, when he didn’t receive a contract with Nokia to support LiveJournal society of Nokia in russian web. Since then he completely changed his policy about Nokia, bashing it hard. Almost the same happened with SE before – same bashing of products all the way, but with less world spreading.
9) Nokia didn’t put revenge on Murtazin – he just violated russian laws on trade secrets in Nokia’s opinion, so they are rightful to protect their trade secrets legally. Murtazin would probably be sentenced to a fine, which is not such a hard punishment. But as it a violation of Criminal Code he would become a criminal, which would give him a bad reputation
10) He is spreading an info which can easily be considered as a effort to mislead the investigation.
11) Some bloggers in russia, being outraged by Murtzin’s constant lies are gathering valuable inf on this story

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

As far as I'm concerned, this guy is just speaking freely and Nokia is shutting free speech down because they don't like what is being said. I don't have to like what he says but I will defend his right to say what he wants.

BOOO NOKIA.

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

@harp maybe you should read the thread before commenting ? specifically last post by NOMOS

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

My take: http://tabulacrypticum.wordpress.com...ldar-murtazin/

Nokia HAS to take this action.

No, that's not at all what's going on.

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

I agree with your analyses, especially on the tired-old comparisons to the Gizmodo case. In this case it was specifically about that prototype, not unleashing everything to seize all his property like in the Apple iPhone 4G case.

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

hahahah this is an act of desperation by nokia

"A perfect example is the N900 which 90% of the issues he found had been resolved in the final product"

90% u say ?? eh, the n900 is as unstable as a spectrum 48K with several dodgy memory chips.

let me state FECK ALL problems were resolved in the FINAL release, and PR1.2 created a damn sight more to boot


OK NOKIA, Ive slated your device, bring on the heavies.............


N900 SUXXXX and Nokia SUXXXXXXX

But they SUXXXXXXXXXXXX more than the sum of their parts...............

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

and im sure htc, samsung, etc are all working on better cameras. What i mean is this gives nokia less time to enjoy the uniqueness of their camera.

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

Be that as it may, what he says about Nokia's direction and the crap that Symbian is trying to be gives him merit for being honest on assessing Nokia. This to me sounds like silencing a vocal dissenting point of view, Nokia has the right to move forward ... but it must acknowledge the blow back involved.

Besides I could care less for the opinions of those discrediting him, because his opionions on Nokia are much in line with mine. The N97 sucks, the N900 wasn't completely baked in (front facing camera didn't work for how long?), and Symbian for the N-series that utter trash should be killed today if not yesterday. I hate Symbian for the N series because it is aged, the UI is still cluttered, and will be obsolete so why release the N-8 to only leave a bad taste on the remaining Nokia users once the N-8 isn't supported anymore 3months after it's release. Nokia is a sinking ship, and like Eldar has done and I have done as well ... I ask the executives of Nokia to resign, you guys suck and single handedly destroyed this companies fortunes by your ineptness, leadership style, lack of foresight, and arrogance. Please Nokia board hire someone with smartphone experience, because all these guys have feature phone mentality and only factor in volume not services.

BTW, OVI is the biggest failure and will remain a failure until it becomes an app baked in to the phone.

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

Wow angry? I'll agree the n900 has been treated like some bastard child. Nokia has supported rheir phones longer then htc, se, apple, or samsung. My n95 seems to still be supported.

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

I'm well aware of the available facts surrounding this lawsuit, but the motive at the end of the day is to shut him up. The guy didn't sign a Nokia NDA. His official statement is that he does not have any prototypes, but had access to them.

How would you feel if you ended up on the receiving end of a lawsuit because a company didn't know where you got your information. It is a known fact that Nokia hand out prototypes to their staff. This is Nokia trying to find a leak within their own company and destroying someones life in the process. Someone who doesn't work for Nokia, doesn't get their information or review units from Nokia and has no access to Nokia manufacturing facilities.

Sure Nokia will do it lawfully but it doesn't change the fact that what they're doing is wrong.

Re: Nokia take legal action against Eldar Murtazin
 

No, it isn't. Nokia is already losing enough coverage sites; they don't want Eldar shutting up completely at all. They just can't allow him to continue as he has been with prototypes.

Incorrect. You say you are aware of the facts but that statement indicates otherwise. Again, Nokia has no choice but to take a very public stand on the issue due to the typical requirements for intellectual property protection.

As shown in comments from my article, Eldar has been caught contradicting himself. That alone casts doubt on any statement he makes over this issue.