Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

It is misleading marketing not to have the same features as some other device?

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

Yes considering on the NOKIA website it states:
"Ovi Maps – Free navigation forever on Nokia smartphones."

I say again, is the N900 not a NOKIA smartphone!?

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

It is free. The fact that your _cell phone operator_ charges you money for data has nothing to do with the phone or the application itself. Blame your operator for that. And it does navigation. Maybe it does not do it the way YOU want it to, but it still does do it.

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

No.. its a computer duuuh?!

Anyway, check the link I posted only ovi maps 3.0.3 get free "navigation" (with turn by turn and so on). You can't just read the headlines without reading all the text, I bet you are the kind of person that buys stuff from TV commericals "buy now only 99 cent" or whatever and don't read the small text on the bottom where it says you have to pay high monthly fees.

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

free navigaton is not provided.
free routing is!

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

Shush. You'll summon the "n900 is a mobile computer" crowd.

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

It has a cellular modem and is therfore a phone, sorry, NOKIA b*****t asside!

Also it's sold alongside other smartphones, and is on my MOBILE TELEPHONE CONTRACT.

I read small print, I just expect logical progression and not for a £500 device to be left in the dark ages.

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

READ: Too late!

lol

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

No one is questioning Nokia's 'safe position' standing behind all the legal fine prints.

The issue at play here is that: for a potential n900 buyer, they'll think the basic and standard features of nokia's symbian based smartphones (which are generally priced and specced lower than the n900) will also apply to the n900. Because the exclusion is written only in small prints.

That is all.

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

Reading a map is usually called navigating. Well, there is a map, it can be freely looked at, zoomed in and out and whatnot. Sounds like navigation. You are assuming navigation means much more than that, but it really doesn't. I'd love to see you to court: "It's not navigation because it doesn't read instructions to me!"

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

Equally I could argue that stellarium is navigation as you can quite effectively navigate by referencing the stars.

Not when NOKIA use the terminology 'Navigation' to describe a sat nav type experience,
My standing point is the rather ambigous use of the term navigation.

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/7...01108atpm1.png

Was that what Nokia meant when they wrote this bit?
If so, don't you think it's really idiotic?

(them or their target audience, take your pick).

Let's get some context here.

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

So right now we have discussion on non standard term and what it means to different people on different continents. Really really really interesting. What shall we do with the "right" end result? We certainly have case for Special Olympics here.

-Situation sucks. Contact Nokia for Complains and feedback. Have a nice day.

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

Yeah but that's _me_ doing the navigating... not the device. Whoever/whatever is keeping track of where we are and where we should go next is the navigator... be it the driver, a passenger or an N900.

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

even when it has been announced beforehand that N900 has been designed for being online 24/7?

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

this could be put in this way... Nokia N8.. C6-00 boxes and ad says free navigation.. My N900 ad says free navigation..

there is a price difference btween these two handsets and its huge..
Now.. Nokia is misleading its customers by having same kinda ad.. thats counts as improper advertising

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

My god, some people are drawing some creative conclusions.

First, I would like to point out that what you people are doing is mistaking the concept of "free" with the concepts of "good" and "competitive". There is free navigation on the N900, that's not up for debate. Either you agree or you don't understand the word "navigation" at all. It's not only free, it's going to stay free. Forever. Unlike some other existing navigation software that only works for a year and then you need to extend the licence. Hence the "forever".

What you expect is turn by turn, voice assisted navigation. What you expect is what some of the competition have. What you expect is good navigation software. The N900 doesn't have that. Nokia doesn't own good navigation software for Linux. They have good navigation on Symbian - which is not the same navigation software that the N900 has. It doesn't even have the same name. Comparing version numbers is like comparing Opera Mini 4 with Opera 10. You can argue in court that you expect Opera Mini 4 to have all the features of Opera 10 - but then you will have to pay the judge for wasting his time on nonsense.

Navigation software: yes, Ovi Maps for N900.
Free navigation: absolutely.
Good navigation: no.
Voice navigation: no.
Turn by turn navigation: no. Correction: yes. There is.
Routing navigation: yes.

And whoever read an N8 ad and means it should say anything about the quality of the software on last years models:

No, actually, I won't comment on that. It would be rude. I'll just leave it at the fact that PC ads bragged about having a Microsoft OS ever since 1981 or something like that. Those PCs were more expensive than the Windows 7 pc's you buy now. So, does that mean those ads were misleading too?

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

Solid hardware with a massive achilles heel, (usb), misleading advertising, horrid updates (1.3 messed things up for me, I have done 2 complete reflashes, battery is worse not better and no new apps), and a great but at this point (might change) dwindling community who could fix many more things but are denied the keys to the kingdom.

The above run on sentence sums up the n900 to me.

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

There's no misleading advertising. There's "only" substandard software implementation and a lot of disappointed owners. Maemo didn't reach it's potential, but it pretty much did deliver according to the vague promises. Since the promises all tend to be about actually delivered functionality and not about quality or user experience.

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

Hell, even calling it a "Phone" was a stretch... LoL

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

Define routing and navigation... In my book routing is when it just draws a line from A to B without having the app to track you where you are right now.. Navigation is when it does what routing does _plus_ the sat locks on to you and follows you around while driving and shows you display what to do next (go left, right... etc)... Just because it doesn't tell you where to go via voice doesn't mean it's not a navigation software... And last time I've checked Ovi Maps does navigate you through the streets, it just doesn't do it via voice... Annoying yes, false advertisement.. no...

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

Good Grief. A year after release and we are STILL on this.

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture...adeadhorse.gif

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

By that standard, my car can be marketed with "free driving, forever! At only 75% cost!". The fact that those b*tards at the gas station charge for gas isn't my problem. And the fact that all sales are subject to tax also isn't my problem.

It's not that it doesn't have navigation, or that it is or not charged. The point was that mandatory parts of what is considered navigation, like maps and searching are all subject to data transfers, a fact that was conveniently left out.

No matter what you consider routing, navigation, whatnot, the device:

* lacks the ability to natively preload an area for later routing
* lacks searching capability
* because of the above, any unplanned, free routes are not realizable.

As a result, the device is not independent, not free and does not route unless under specific circumstances which can safely be considered outside normal operation.

When I need my navigation is when I'm lost. When I don't know where I am and where I should go. At that exact point, I need to shell out if I want any help at all.

Without the link, I get nothing out of the damn Maps app, not even coordinates. I can thank third party apps and Camera for those.

Let's assume you hired a guide to get you through the mountains, and, half way through you get lost and ask the guide for help. The guide replies "I have no idea where I am, where to go and what's around. I cant find anything". Would you consider that a guide service? Would you pay?

If Nokia would have allowed me to preload the maps for an arbitrary area, say, Bucharest, I'd be half-happy. And if it would allow me to search, OFFLINE, that map area, it would qualify as navigation. Forget voice. I wouldn't be happy, because I consider saved bookmarks a basic feature, but what the heck, it would drive me back home.

But it has no such features. I'm lost, I pop out the navigation, and it puts a red blot in the center of a gray area and says "you are here" which is the kind of help I'd expect from a crayon.

If it can't even provide an arrow towards where I want to be or where I was without payment, it's not free. And if I don't pay, it's not navigation. The package never said "Navigation only works if you are online". If it did, we'd all be golden.

Also, it seems the phone does calculate a route if offline. I noticed it transferred data when calculating, so I assumed it did it with online help. So at least there's that. If you have the map of where you are, where you want to be and the area in between, and you have a good enough memory to pinpoint start and destination, you have navigation.

With no preload, that's actually less useful than it seems.

If you have a long-range car that "was designed to always be on the road", does it seem OK to you for the car to explode if ever pulled over?

Designed to be online 24/7 means it CAN maintain a link 24/7, not that it has to. And you know that full well.

--

Frankly, this is becoming tiresome. Just because a few of you don't route with the phone doesn't mean that people who do can be pointed at.

I'd like to see how this thread would look if N900 required confirmation from Nokia.com to allow you to read your contacts, or accept an incoming call. Hey, it's free, right?

Before calling people crybabies, think it through. If a feature you need at a moment's notice required Nokia.com to work at random times, would you still be here, venting (against)?

An advertised function is missing a good chunk of its features. These functions have been offloaded online, at a substantial cost to the user, especially when roaming, for bad data plans, and emergencies. This limitation was never advertised.

I'm not even going to open the point of Nokia servers being offline or the service being discontinued.

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

The courts found a long, long time ago that it is known that advertisers use a certain amount of exaggeration, and consumers understand that. I think that courts would find that this is a reasonable construction of the term "navigation" and would not find Nokia liable for misleading advertising.

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

Do iOS and Android support offline navigation out of the box?

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

My N900 does everything you say it can't, with no data/wifi connection. I did preload maps from nokia and can map out routes without issue. You do need a connection to text search, but I simply point on the map where I want to go and then it will calculate the route according to my filtering selection.

It works fine for me.........

Good News!! You can do that!!!

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

I remember a time before google maps and map quest and the only way to connect to the internet was to clog up a phone line. Could get around just fine without some computerized voice telling me where to go. Now, it seems, thats what the wife is for!

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

errr.... what?

nope, designed to be online 24/7 means the way everything should work: by requiring a connection 24/7. there was some criticism in the first place about it but it has been a known fact for 1.5 years or something....

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

Yes, but I will never buy another phone from THAT horse.

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

And don't get everyone started on the whole "UNLIMITED" internet business.

Sit back, relax and watch the comments flow.....:)

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

OMG, just buy a sat nav ffs! I have a n900 and an iPhone neither are good enough replacement for a full blown sat nav.

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

Can you mention something that doesn't work unless you are connected 24/7? AFAIK, NO ONE is connected 24/7 except for a few people who have special lines. I have cable Internet, for example, and I'm not connected 24/7.

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

Your analogy is apt, but only because it's actually correct and totally goes against the point you were making.
In the UK, almost every car is marketed with an "on the road" price - This is the cost of the car, its' road tax, and a small amount of fuel. Nowhere on the advert is it specified that the "on the road" price will only actually get you maybe 50 miles or 6 months, whichever is sooner, and that after that you have to start paying for fuel and road tax.
You know why they dont advertise those extra running costs? Because theyre BLOODY OBVIOUS.

Er, no. Quite the opposite. Designed to be online 24/7 means it is supposed to be online 24/7, should be, and is designed to be. Most network operators actually also make this abundantly clear.

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

:rolleyes: Anyone have an answer to this? I'm curious to know if the Nokia-bashing is actually justified or if the competition is just as lacking ala the whole Flash 10.1 fiasco.

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

Android does not offer offline navigation out of the box. It needs the internet in order to navigate. Maps are not saved in the devices.

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

The competition is just as "lacking". Google maps (Android) requires a connection to download maps as well as route etc (Ovi on the N900 only actually needs data transfer for searches, maps and map-based routes can be handled without data transfer), and iOS doesn't include any nav software. WinMo devices generally ship with a trial of Copilot, which after the trial isn't free.
Ovi maps, the version included on symbian devices anyway, is the only free and fully offline capable mapping software available.

So yeah, boo hoo, the N900 only has a similar limitation to that of every Android device, and is still more comprehensive than any other platform.

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

Confirms what I thought (more FUD). Is the n900 the most polarizing device ever or what?

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

Thanks for the clarification nidO.

Like I said a few posts back, if you know roughly where you are going you can still "fly" and zoom into your best guess location just using the maps stored data. This gets you very close to the target, and gives you turn by turn info.

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

OMG, it says a full web browser with flash support!
that's just like saying a web browser with full flash support!
that's just like saying a web browser with every version of flash forever!
that's such a LIE!!!!!!!1!

Re: Who said Nokia did not do false advertising? look at this
 

TomTom on my iphone works exactly the same as my TomTom hardware device so your statement is untrue.