Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

We DO know. Elop's memo TOLD US. The board approved of this. What more do we need to know?

I can just imagine if someone came here and went on and on about MMS, portrait mode or all the other features Maemo was missing the way y'all are going on about things that are already in the first update (cut and paste) or that don't stop iPhone buyers (multitasking). Is cut and paste any more of an omission than custom ringtones? The most powerful OS developer in the world joins forces with the greatest phone hardware developer in the world. It's IBM + MS all over again. I don't see how this can be a bad thing in the end.

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

B.t.w., if those estimates are anywhere near correct, they are pretty shocking I must say. Nokia apparently pays about

• 1200 people to work on Symbian kernel
• 5000 on Symbian user experience
• 1800 on MeeGo and Qt (of which probably between 300 and 500 on Qt)

(Again, assuming that these estimates are ballpark correct) I think it's understandable that people are questioning what they have to show for this.

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

One big reason that many of us are not looking at is that so far Nokia has been good selling phones by itself. But it hasnt managened this in NA because here ISP tie-ups count a lot. Face it, in North America, Nokia doesnt have any stores, they closed their only 2 premium show stores ( in NY and Chicago) , they have to tie-ups with ISP to sell discounted phones which is the only way MOST Americans buy their phones.

Lacking this distribution channel in NA, they had no way to sell Maemo or Meego phones even if they were ready. Also the ISP's play a big part is accepting or rejecting a phone on tier networks and most NA ISP's are unwilling to test a new unproven OS on their networks. It takes a lot of money and time for the ISP to certify a device and a OS on their networks.

Also the mobile market has been moving so fast that for Nokia to catch up, they needed an OS with some ecosystem around it. Android while being the best choice in terms of ecosystem was unsuyitabel for Nokia as they would be commoditized along with mfrs as HTC, Samsung, LG etc.
Nobody wants to go there - unless you can make phones on the cheap.
And the Android phone market is chock full of cheap phones so competing on that front was a serious risk.

They only other viable option was WP7. Being an underdog (MS WP7 is an underdog in the mobile world) Nokia could play a stronger role - and we did see this - Nokia managed to get serious rights to change and customize WP7 in their own way. While it may not be the best of choices, its the only one they had to hit the ground running.

Without Meego having anything to show for it, and Symbian seriously showing its age, I think Nokia chose the least bad of the bad options that it had.

I think the key was that Meego while being trumped up to be a very good OS, delivered too little too late for Nokia.

Look even Palm/HP delievered WebOS in short time and now HP has said that they will make WebOS work on Smartphones, Tablets (already done) and also on PC's very soon. Wasn't that the vision of Meego too ? But lets face it when we all saw Meego 1.1 it was not ready in any shape or form for geeky end users. Meego 1.2 is still months away from fir and finish looks. So how much ever Nokia customised their own UI, the base Meego OS first has to be ready - which it is not.

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

I think you are missing quite a lot if you don't see that? You are comparing what there is now to what there will be in the future. Instead of what there could've been in the future versus what there will be in the future. I think you're missing a gigantic part of the picture there. As Elop put it, it's a war of ecosystems and Nokia gave up on that.

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

1. People wouldn't be paying so much for Android and especially iOS phones if they didn't really want any of the features. "Need " is another issue, but they definitely want them. They want a capacitive touchscreen - they have no idea what that is, but they've heard that's what they should want. They want to pinch things - why, they don't know, but the more fingers you can use at one time on the screen, the better. Say, thirty. Etc., etc.


2. Nokia didn't have anything better than Symbian ready to go.If they did, they'd have already deployed it.

3. Nokia will have complete control over WP7 on their phones.

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

But they don't have WP7 ready to go either until maybe somewhere towards the end of this year. Like with MeeGo. Only they now destroyed their Symbian sales too by announcing it's going out.

But not the ecosystem, that's the big thing here.

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

Thank you for this question, patlak, for it catalyzed (or joined ;) an epiphany regarding the situation in my (aching, thick) head.

There are indeed two points of view here -- that of the end consumers, and that of the developers and people professionally involved with Nokia (not discussing the shareholder's position, which is represented by a less vocal group). Your question is from the point of view of the end consumer -- what will the change to WP7 bring to the market, and are we going to want to buy it. The answer is, for most people here, likely NO, we will not want any of it. WP7's philosophy is polarly opposite to that of Maemo/Meego, and if we liked this philosophy we'd be happy with iOS gadgets and not spend time on TMO. So no wonder why many people here are turning to Android (the lesser evil). But we have always been a very small group that barely affects the market.

The other point of view is that of Nokia and those working for / with it. Shrinking market share in the much larger Symbian segment had to be addressed somehow. Qt was a feasible solution, but apparently it wasn't working for Symbian as expected. So the board decided to replace Symbian with WP7, a decision about which I couldn't care less because I have never been interested in Symbian devices anyway.

Now, the conflict arises from the fact that Qt and Meego are incompatible and compete directly with WP7, so when Symbian goes they are canned as well. From the point of view of Nokia this is really unimportant, Meego being just an experimental platform with zero market share. From the point of view of most end users on TMO it is the world.

In the end of the day, for Nokia, it was never about Meego being ready or not. They will get it ready in some form, but they cannot keep it as more than an experiment since it will contradict the move to WP7 in the lower segment. It is simpler to have both lower and higher end phones running on WP7.

I guess I can now leave the conspiracy theories alone, suck it up and move on. Let's hope we get a decent successor to the N900 -- the first and last Meego phone from Nokia, but c'est la vie. If it has a screen larger than 3.5'', I'll buy it.

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

While it may take a year still for WP7 phones, at least it has a eco-system around it - yes still not as thriving as Android - but neverthless a system around it that WORKS.

Nokia lame excuse of an ecosystem - OVI - purely sucked. It didn't work either on N900. It didn't have a strong and secure payment system. Maybe you don't remember the fracas when we could actually download a paid app on OVI without paying for it. While that feels good to some "it should all be free" open source type guys - its not what builds a viable ecosystem.

They might not control the WP7 ecosystem - but they can ride that to some success (hopefully).

Just developing Meego itself wouldn't have sufficed in this case.

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

Yes I agree....

Meego will not produce a good phone before it dies.. there just not enough power/traction behind it... (aka there should have been one or two early adopters devices by now, to get close to competing in the market)

Even it they released the planned Meego phone Q4-2010 it would have still been a steep uphill battle.

Specially given how Nokia went with Maemo. I mean the N900 is a great great phone... and I'll probably use mine until it dies. Hopefully by that time some other free/oss phone is out there... otherwise I'll guess I'll have to sell my soul to HP/WebOS.

But Nokia never really worked with a good plan for Maemo as far as I could see.

Given that they let there base-os fall into the slums of decay, never rebased on current Debians and did not actively let the community contribute to the core os... (Felt more like a OpenSolaris type of development then PostGreSQL or Debian)

It would have taken a long time before there would have been consumer ready Maemo phones. But there could have been one by now!! with another one at Q2 or Q3 2011, really settling Maemo into the market..

No; there became Meego... basically throwing Maemo out of the window entirely... (sure sure it was a 'merger'... personally I have not seen much 'merging', I've seen a lot of Moblin turning into Meego)

There where hopes for Meego but to my eyes basically the same thing happened as with Maemo...

Somehow.. I have never felt much love for the platforms from Nokia after the N800....

Yes the N900 is great (and I'll say it a thousands times more) but even during the Nokia/Maemo/N900 Amsterdam event, I felt engaged... not empowered by Nokia..

Given the track record in the past the never gave me the feeling that they where actually committed... committed in more then just words and some money... With the N900 all previous devices again died in Nokia's eyes... Now I can understand this given the history... but it should not have to been that way... with proper setup of Maemo it should have been possible to keep the older devices up to date... let the community take over the roles of maintaining the devices... but i guess more coorperate issues like patents, copyrights, licenses and backroom deals where in the way of realizing that...

My hopes now are with the CSSU :)

I would really love to see US working together to rebase Maemo on Debian 6 (Squeeze) or 7 (Wheezy) trying to create a firmware that will completely blow away Maemo 5.

Maybe visually something like combining an updated userland with Canola like interface. (could be QT, could be something else)

And with development board like the Beagle and Panda board powering anything from our N900 to Tables to Cars and Home devices like thermostats, automation and whatever you can think of..

Well... guess this rambling just shows that I still love the potential of what was (is?) Maemo...

I just would have loved to see Nokia put there enormous knowledge from the like of Symbian into the Linux kernel and help create lightweight versions of some of the things bogging down Linux on small devices now...

Then we should not need to run Java (oeps I mean Dalvak) to get a Linux powered device to make phone calls with, listen to shoutcast and browse the web....

In some sense Apple already show us that this is possible right ? how much different in effect is an iPhone ? it's just a Unix kernel, with Mac userland, Obj-C and apples gui on top right ?.. sure lots of development and Q&A to make it all work nicely together, but isn't this just where Maemo and Meego failed ? Something more then a hand full of contracted developers to code up individual parts of the OS ?

But this is all so many years overdue now that I must agree with your sentiment that for a company like Nokia that needs to compete right now; it just isn't ready... and by the time it is, given the current conditions and management of it it will be many (3+) years to late.

They should have realized a year ago....

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

Right-- as in, pick MeeGo, run with it.

Elop deserves blame. If he had wanted, he could have scrambled Nokia into making MeeGo Priority 1, and we WOULD have a device right now. But I'm now convinced he was set against MeeGo from the start, and sabotaged its chances.

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

Ask IBM how that ended up for them.

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

1. Where's MeeGo, Rugoz? Oh that's right - it doesn't exist in a saleable form. The CEO of Nokia says MeeGo isn't ready and you're simply going to claim it is?

2. Sherlock Holmes said "When all else has been eliminated, whatever else remains, however improbable, must be the answer." If Nokia couldn't whip Maemo/MeeGo/whatever into shape in several years then YES I believe they've lost the ability to put together a decent OS. And YES, Google, Palm and RIM are currently superior to Nokia in software development. And Apple and Microsoft go without saying. They've all delivered new OSes in less time while spending far less. Facts. Don't give me righteous indignation - show me MeeGo. Or even a version of Maemo that could go toe-to-toe with iOs and Android, because the one that was on the N900 didn't succeed at that.

I have facts to back up my assertion that Nokia can't produce a decent OS anymore. Where's the proof that Elop, the board, and the shareholders who elected them are so stupid as to have this wonderful, polished, sexy, non-geeky, intuitive, buzz-worthy, bug-free OS 99.9% ready and they traded it for WP7 instead for no reason or vast conspiratorial ones? Unless you produce proof this OS exists, you can't prove that hypothesis or disprove mine.

3. The iPod (which came in 2001), iPhone, iTunes and iPad did not exist before Jobs returned to Apple. They were NEW MARKETS. Apple did not have music players before the iPod, phones before the iPhone, music sales before iTunes, or tablets before iPad. Do you think the vast majority of Apple's profits today are generated by those or by Mac sales? Steve Jobs led the company from being a personal computer company to a consumer product/entertainment company. He did not come back and take the home computer market from PCs/Windows. (He did introduce the iMac though) Elop is being charged with recapturing the lead in an existing market.

From Wikipedia:
. ISo let's see... Jobs killed several products including the Newton that has a lot in common with MeeGo.

I'm sure some Apple fans were crying that it was almost ready to take over the world but the evil sleeper agent of NeXT was planted in Apple to destroy it. In fact, I know it's so, because the article on Newton describes how some fans were always seeing signs that it was going to be revived, produced Newton emulators, and software such as eReaders have been produced for Newton today by diehard afficionados. Some probably still refuse to buy an Apple product.

Steve also terrorized employees with fear of firing in the elevator(Elop could only top this by throwing employees down elevator shafts). He also brought technology with him from the previous company he was a part of and incorporated it into existing products, displacing the existing operating system in the process.

Sounds to me like Jobs shook things up like Elop's doing and neither are afraid to cut anything or anyone that hasn't lived up to expectations. They're also not afraid to use their previous contacts to bolster their company's products. I don't see why Mr. Elop is considered the opposite of Mr. Jobs.

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

Ngage Arena beats the **** out of Xbox Live.

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

Rather well, actually, all told. It was the reverse engineering and other loss of control that allowed other manufacturers to make PC clones and undercut IBM. OS/2's another story, but that's not what caused IBM to exit the market. IBM PC-compatible computers running a Microsoft operating system still rule the business and home computer markets. Lenovo bought IBM's laptop computer business and it's still a respected business laptop brand.

I wish the startup I owned 10% of ended up like IBM. 10% of nothing = nothing. :(

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

I think this would be a good sig for you.

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

Did you see Jobs announcing the iPad? Awesome, magic!
Compare that to Elop announcing the new strategy. Awesome, magic?

Hint: Nokia's shares tanked 15% after Elop announced the new strategy.

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

Oh guys cmon , Nokia can innovate but they were never good at software . From what I recall their software projects always were failures. Elop did what he had to do, get support from software makers aka Microsoft. Regardless how awesome MeeGo was/is remember that handset UI was primary in Nokia's hands hence FAIL


Lets go back

Download! = first app store = FAIL

N-gage devices = first gaming platform FAIL

Mosh = second app store FAIL

N-gage software = gaming platform for all N- series = FAIL

Ovi services = FAIL

As N8 ad said its not the technology its what you do with it :D

In this case its not the innovation its what you do with it ;) hence iPhone and Android

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

Who said Win7 is a smartphone OS?
I'd you're an idiot if you think so.

Define smartphone OS if you can.
These are the list of what Win7 Phone OS doesn't have. Which a must for a smartphone OS, without it then it is not so smart afterall.

* No cut, copy, and paste,
* No full multitasking for 3rd party apps,
* No Adobe Flash.
* Windows Phone 7 supports upgradable storage via an SD Card; however SD card memory is merged with the phone's internal storage, and changing the SD card causes the phone to reset to factory settings.
* Windows Phone 7 does not support connecting to Wi-Fi (wireless) access points which are hidden or have a static IP address, tethering to a computer
* No videocalling,
* No VoIP calling,
* Doesn't support USB mass-storage,
* No universal email inbox,
* No universal search,
* Doesn't have a system-wide file manager,
* Doesn't support Bluetooth file transfers,
* Doesn't support USSD messages,
* Doesn't support custom ringtones.
* only support syncing with Exchange ActiveSync over the network. There is no support for syncing with Exchange ActiveSync using a cable or cradle.

* does not support Office documents with security permissions
* Doesn't support IPsec security,
* No on-device encryption,
* Doesn't support strong passwords,
* No internet sockets.
* No list of past phone calls is now a single list, and cannot be separated into inbound, outbound or missed calls.
* No USB OTG (Host)

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

MeeGo has desktop software to compliment the OS on their phones? A music store, a video store and that all works right now?

As does the board of directors that invited him.

Sounds to me that the board of directors yet again don't know what they have in MeeGo, just like Maemo.

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

Thanks for the thorough response to my 2 word question :). I appreciate it.
Your two point of views are correct and I agree.
My question is certainly from the consumer side and isn't that what Nokia is more interested in now? They want to grab the attention of the consumer and channel his view to their future strategy which will be long overdue and something that is currently on offer in the market. Nokia had only simple things to do to increase their presence in North America, and in order to achieve that, they should just have listened to American media. Get past the "Symbian is outdated" attacks and absorb the negative attitude towards the browser and social network integration. Browser is easy to do, they could have just ported MicroB which was praised by many. Is it so hard to include a nicely developed youtube, facebook and twitter client? There are already perfect clients available for Twitter (TwimGo) and youtube (CuteTube), only facebook needed. Nothing similar can be developed from Nokia? If they did that and advertised it, phones would sell. UI has familiarity going for it and is quite improved with S^3, attacks are only the remaining ones from the N97 catastrophe.

Only small things were requested from Nokia and they couldn't deliver. Now they have to face the new strategy by adopting an out of house OS with much less features, drop current in house OS projects that are still potentially capable of bringing back Nokia to the top and try to win over consumers yet again, just like they had to 10 years ago.

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

S40 much???

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

Bigger hint: Nokia's shares have tanked 75% from 40.00+ USD in 2007 to less than 10.00 USD in 2010 from prior Nokia strategies.

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

Nokia just fails at advertising. How many people knew Ngage 2.0 was available? MOSH?

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

Not really. Others made out much better from IBM's PC innovations than they did-- including Microsoft.

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

...and had previously gone up due to others.

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

Sound familiar? N900/Maemo 5

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

Gerbick, I know that. So what, it shows that the previous regime (OPK & board) failed. So the savior was brought in, share prices moved up slightly. Then the new strategy was announced, and the stock tanked again. Looks like the market thinks that the current regime (Elop & board) failed.

So we do have the continuation of failure, apparently not a change to the better.

What is your point?

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

Not by the time I looked at their trends. 2007 was their peak year, their highest.

Nothing peaked higher than that year.

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

Dude, if sales meant anything about quality, Justin Bieber and Britney Spears wouldn't sell shitloads of records.

Truth is, what most of us are angry about is that all that Maemo was is about to cease exist, in one form or another. This device is about to go down in history as a revolutionary device that didn't happen due to bad management decisions, and never again will we see anything close to it from nokia, if Ms is truly at the helm of Nokia.

And guess what, in spite of what really sells, I could really use another Maemo device, with updated specs. I'm afraid this will be no more.

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

I've been making money off Nokia's stock rollercoaster going back further than that. ;)

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

They've already failed, it was a very slow bleed from 2007 to now. If things were left to their own devices, it would have been an epic fail sooner or later.

Agree on the continuation of failure.

Don't overlook that 2007 was the last great year. The board of directors know that quite well. Blaming the accumulated failure being blamed on the current strategies and on Elop tends to overlook what came before that last announcement.

What's my point? Don't be daft and overlook the whole truth - Nokia's been on a downhill trajectory for 4 years.

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

I bought the N900 exactly one year ago, and I liked it better than android at that time, hell some things are still better today. IMO portrait mode was lacking, otherwise fine. That tells me engineers at nokia are able to do it.

If I would have never used the N900 I would agree with you.

Now harmattan devel. started maybe 1.5 years ago, and they have Trolltech helping them with UI stuff. I think it should be ready or ready soon or something went terribly wrong.

But what do I know?

Also everybody says symbian sucks, I used symbian for a long time, and it was superior to any other smartphone OS (in some regards it still is). Nokia can't do software? My ***.

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

@PXA270
I think you are partly correct as to why people are hating on Elop and Nokia. While you may say we are wrong and Nokia is in a tight spot lets look at the history of Elop, Microsoft and Nokia. Most of this I knew and some I learned from others on this forum.

Elop came from a company named Macromedia and sold Macromedia to Adobe, their was a program called Director which was like Flash on steroids and my personal opinion had more advanced features then Flash has now. Adobe took over Macromedia and killed Director as it would cause competition internally and also if sold to another company and Director died.
Source: http://piacentini.blog.br/2011/02/elop-is-after-me/

Microsoft is a good and bad up company at the same time. Microsoft does not innovate until they get pressured by competition. Microsoft is also a company filled with failures
ZUNE-Fail, WMA-Fail, Backing HD DVD-Fail, Mobile 6.5-Fail, Windows Tablets-Fail, BOB-Fail, Windows ME-Fail, UMPC's-Fail, Kin-Fail, Passing on YouTube-Fail....thats off my head their is a super long list I cant find right now but about 20 more is missing.
This is the part that should scare you!
Microsoft and the KIN. Microsoft took over a phone OS development group called Danger for $500 Million. They responsible for the T-Mobile SideKick. Microsoft then kills off the SideKick and releases the KIN and could not sell 8,000 of them. That a $500 Million dollar loss. The SideKick is no more and the SideKick community which was huge is no more(I'm one of them).

Nokia a strong company who gained the trust of millions by embracing Open development, quality phones and keeping customer loyalty. If you understand Symbian3 you would understand they are not a burning platform as Elop says how ever their bad decisions to release a OS only to kill is has put them in this place and it is Nokia's fault.

WP7 sold 2 Million phones on different Hardware manufactures.
Symbian sold 6 to 8 on just Nokia in the same time.

Nokia has been making bad decisions for some time now, is this just another.

With know all this, would you being Nokia make the same decision?
And will you be buying a Nokia/WP7?
Now I ask you, should we not be mad?

[please post corrections]

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

But they do sell shitloads of records. I've never heard a one, but I'm sure people with different (I won't say lesser) tastes than I buy those records.

100% agree. But I think clarity of exactly why that's come to pass is what is lacking in all of this vitriolic banter. Maemo was killed due to sheer incompetence, bad management and ultimately Nokia not realizing what exactly they had from the 770 to the N900.

Simply stated, they didn't capitalize. This is what happens when you do that.

Disagree slightly. Bad management, a beta device that could have been revolutionary, half-delivered.

MS is at the helm now because of prior bad decisions. That's a harsh truth.

Agree fully. Gladly, I've found a level of comfort with Android.

Too bad it's a forced happiness.

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

Why do you assume I overlook that? I really don't understand what your point is.

Okay, Nokia is on a downward trajectory for 4 years. Nokia announces new strategy and stock tanks further. So what's new?

I do not like the new strategy at all, and the stock market seems to agree.

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

I know you meant "embracing", I found it funny though..

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

Then you've chosen to overlook my point.

Oh well... continue.

The stock market hasn't agreed in 4+ years. Nothing new indeed.

So why complain? Because this failure has a name and a face attached to it and a past that's connected to Microsoft?

Whatever... just continue as-is. It's your point that I'm somehow overlooking, if there was one.

I get it folks. Elop bad. Ballmer worse. Microsoft is the worst. Maemo, MeeGo are the best. Nokia was the answer.

Too bad the stock market didn't see that, nor will the creditors in a few weeks after 4 years of faith.

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

I would smile if MeeGo succeeded in the future and driven alone by Intel and some other company. If MeeGo success in two years time then I can see Nokia come back and beg Intel to forgive them for the stupid mistake. I want to see Elop Fail.

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

Nokia had never listen to consumer point of view or what consumers want in their device. Nokia always a self stimulated company, and never care about the customers.

If only they will listen and add what consumers really wanted into their device then they wouldn't fail like now. Look at Apple, they did their research and trails for better result, look at Android providing what customers really wanted, and soon will be WebOS. The company that drives along with the consumer's needs and request will live on to see some success.

Re: Maybe the unpleasant truth is that MeeGo really was too late and/or not good enough?
 

The New Nokia:

http://www.seibertron.com/images/fac...ecepticons.png