Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

To be honest i'm getting quite sick of the hyperbole that this was all a Microsoft ploy to get Nokia when there's no evidence for that other than Elop used to work there. The article clearly states how Elop got to Nokia, that they head hunted him despite him just about to take another position. It was Elop who approached Microsoft, and he also approached Google. He openly said Google wouln't give Nokia the creative freedom it wants or deserves and in the meeting with MS he said Nokia want to be able to do things with and to the software. Reading the Business Week article really makes it clear Elop wants Nokia to succeed and succeed as a pioneering brand not just a profitable handset maker. I think he's a rich enough guy to not move across the world from his family just to do Ballmer's dirty work, especially as the collaboriation wasn't even Microsoft's idea.

Microsoft benefit here, probably more than Nokia in terms of profit - Nokia shift 24m smartphones a quarter and Microsoft sell what, none? All this crap about MS buying Nokia, when this partnership is the best of both - MS get Nokia's hardware and global presence without paying the overheads or salaries or coming up with the designs.

And this anti-Linux stuff, MS as a company may be, but Elop not only said that he told Nokia employees he wants them to get to work developing something that will change the mobile market and make Apple, Android and even the MS deal insignificant, he even took the interviewer around that section of the company to show current innovations like a phone that still works submerged in water.

Am I convinced WP7 is better than Symbian for this? No, but then i don't know how much actual software work Symbian needs to be easier to develop for. I am more confident and reassured that Elop is truly wanting Nokia to get back on its feet and not just sell it out, and am hugely relieved Elop fought for Nokia to add to WP7 software in its own way AND make it clear that Nokia will continue to strive forward with its own innovations.

Now, if the N9 is a part of that then the new patented technology we've been hearing about and 'our next sense' etc may actually be part of the future and not just another N900 situation.

We'll see as events unfold but i am pretty confident about the future consisting of WP7 being developed to be a competing OS with the missing features added, while the innovative power we want from Nokia is still being developed.

Nokia hasn't given up and Elop hasn't given up on Nokia. Reading that article, it does seem like he's giving the company the kick up the butt it desperately needed.

Not that that excuses his ballsing up the February conference though.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Nokia has historically released unfinished products around Maemo.

That would explain why each iteration of ITOS2005-2008 to Maemo 5 was a basic start and stop and felt largely unfinished to all but the hacker and enthusiast.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

If Microsoft was smart they would just buy Nokia and rebrand Symbian as Windows Phone 8. At least they would then have a platform that doesn't completely suck.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

You're right. It would blow.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

this is ********.

there is no way even if platform had bugs to take 4 years to make 3 devices.

specially since all of them based on the SAME OS. that should be ironed out along the way.

meego device would be ready and more capable than WP7 this year. probably even last yaer.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Puff piece from the PR (propaganda?!) machine.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Are you insane ?

Why would MS give a SH1T about linux on mobile when its desperately behind its main competitors - Android and Apple !

Its main enemies are Android and Apple - FOSS linux (not android!) doesnt have a foothold in the mobile market at all !

Saying MS is concerned about FOSS linux on mobile now is like saying that Balmer is concerned about the car radio when the brakes on the car are not working !

Please apply logic !

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

So, WP7 is already using RPMs, and is MeeGo compatible, so it was chosen?

It has been said that Symbian has a lot of cruft, and large parts that needed to be radically updated/refactored. Well, I can believe in that (It's maybe a picture of Nokia itself). About Meego, the article tells a story about the white board where they wrote down all that still needed to be done. I would love to take a look at that board, what did they list down?... "Foursquare app... Flash 10... WMV codec..."?

Question to the audience: how does the WP7 white board looks like compared to MeeGo's?

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

I bet it went like this... "It's released"

That's all I can conjure up.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Microsoft can't buy Nokia due to antitrust laws and the Finnish government.

However, Microsoft can buy the Nokia board members.

What happened is a hostile takeover of Nokia by Microsoft, plain and simple; if not in name, then in deed.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Microsoft doesn't give a 'sh1t' about competing with Android and Apple.

In fact, Microsoft doesn't care about the mobile phone business at all; they haven't turned a profit on their mobile products in 15 years, and they can jolly well spend the next 15 years doing the same.

What Microsoft does care about is the fact that Linux will eventually come to dominate the mobile phone ecosystems. This is an inevitable fact; it's only a matter of several years. Linux makes too much business and money sense not to win, and the success of Android shows how true this is.

Linux on the handset will greatly erode Microsoft's marketshare on the desktop, so it's understandable that Microsoft is doing all they can to delay the inevitable.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

You must be joking, or on crack.

Maemo is also released, as is Harmattan. Maemo also sold massively better than WP7.

WP7 is the worst-selling mobile OS of them all.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

I can't help wondering how the whole situation is being described in the article. It's like a bad act of a local summer theater.

These two guys are the CEO and Chief Development Officer of the world's largest handset manucacturer, and one could imagine they always know the latest news and development status of the company's most important operating system project - MeeGo. But not in this case, as they describe it. They just get a whitepaper marked with different colors in January, and all of a sudden they both realize that MeeGo isn't going to be ready.

Come on. If this really is true, how come Öistämö still works as a CDO in Nokia? He's the one who should constantly know every single bit of the latest process, when it comes to MeeGo.

Either this is just a badly written story to make MS partnership look better, or really, really bad management.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Sometimes you enthusiastically work on something for a while, and then you take stock and suddenly realise that you are realistically not going to meet your goals.

Of course this is mismanagement, because ideally you would never miss your goal. But realistically, it also happens, and then it is more important to make the right decisions than to fire your (now more experienced...) staff.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

I don't think that finnish goverment would do anything, or could do even if it wanted. There is no legal basis for intervening in a such deal. Besides, they are too busy shovelling billions after billions of finnish national wealth to Greece, Ireland and Portugal in order to save German and French banks from bankruptcy if PIIGs default on their bonds.


As for EU antitrust case, it might be possible. Altough Nokia's market share has plummeted and Microsoft doesn't really have any in the mobile space. I guess the EU comission could go after MS anyway. They seem to like doing that.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Pretty funny, but it sounds more like journalistic oversimplification than anything else.

The idea that this problem just snuck up on Nokia is certainly damming. What did Elop's precursors think they were going to do after Symbian ran out of gas?

I recently watched Giant in honor of Elizabeth Taylor, and this reminds me of Rock Hudson defiantly vowing to stick to cattle while oil gushers were exploding on neighboring ranches. Now Nokia has a lot of dying cattle and its rivals have all struck oil.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

If you followng Meego mailinglists etc... you would now this:

Meego is not ready! there is plenty of stuff that needs to be optimized. Decisions to take etc...

and Maemo6. was not ready cause they did rewrite the UI from Gtk+ to core Qt now they rewrite it again in qtquick.

First now (Q2 2011) it seems MAEMO6 more ready but there is still stuff who isnt. and I dont think they can just push this 12 different devices in a year. Different hw different drivers etc... WP7 can mosly cause Microsoft feed hw manufactors with alot of money to make the drivers for theyr OS.

but it seems Nokia employers haas worked very hard since february both on Qt/Webkit and harrmattan.

I guess they realize facts after february....

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Problem is -- WP7 is even less ready than Meego or Maemo.

If timing was an issue, Elop would have picked Android.

Fact is, Elop doesn't care if Nokia ever releases a WP7 phone. The issue at hand here is stopping Linux adoption.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Microsoft got everything they wanted out of this 'partnership' with Nokia, and even more. Why would they risk tripping on risky political issues?

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Microsoft doesn't care about Blackberries.
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/kanyewest.jpg
...or Android or Apple. They just plod along at their own pace.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

While WP7 clearly was more ready than MeeGo - MeeGo has a public roadmap and handsets were ment to be behind tablets all the way - this is all irrelevant.

Because Nokia didn't sign up to use Windows Phone 7. They are going to use Windows Phone 8. Windows Phone 8 isn't ready.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

I don't think there will be an antitrust case against Microsoft buying Nokia. Microsoft isn't a big contender in the cell phone industry, so there will be no monopoly situation. Also, EU allowed things like the Nokia + Siemens merger, etc.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

The first Nokia Windows Phones will quite certainly be WP 7.5.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

the conspiracy theories are now moving beyond the sublime and into the absurd.

put down the weed fellas!

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

I go on Bad managment. Big companys always loose control and thats what has happened to Nokia.

This has been discussed before and there where people leave the Nokia ship long before Mr Elop entered the ship.

Maemo could have gone way faster progress if they got resources. I guess one reason it slowed down was when Nokia bought Qt 2008. Its now 2011 it first now Qt is stable enought on Symbian and Maemo/Meego. That means Maemo6 couldnt be stable until recently. This is the facts. We cant blame Elop or Microsoft for this.

Another thing that did slow down progress on Maemo is merge with Moblin. This is still not fully done as we all know. Now everyone seems to blame Nokia for this? but I am sure there is two sides of that too.

So maybe the only solution in short run IS WP. I still hope on Maemo or Meego in Nokia land and I think it is possible not as mainos but as an complement. Asiancountrys prefer Linux and dislike Microsoft. Nokia want to sell well in this countrys too.

And if the new phone Maemo sells well they cant just dish it cause then stockholders would not trust Nokia and they loose even more.

I am the one who also said Microsoft will buy Nokia 2013. But if we think about it what the HELL would Microsoft winning on buy Nokia!?

Cause if they do they cant sell any WP licenses to any other hw company?

There also is another thing: Just heard that Nokia will have its own "AppStore". If Microsoft would buy Nokia why the hell is they allowed to setup theyr own store? Its

I see it in another way. Microsoft is more desperate than Nokia too get the damn Wp to success! Thats why they need Nokia. They need a big trusted COmpany that sells alot of WP phones and then other manufactors will follow.

Not because they will buy Nokia.

I think Maemo will still continue inside Nokia. Hopefully we will see one device atleas one per year or two years intrerval. And thats totally okey imho. Personally I dont give a **** if it will be mainstream as long as it is supported in some way.

I yes I know there is stupid rumors about Meego will be killed at Nokia 2012 but I dont give a **** about those stupid rumors possible payed rumors by Apple or Google... (To make the stock even more shaky for Nokia)

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

They have a history of making changes in other industries in just one year/windows version. I.e. the media player industry, the one where they did get sued for abusing market power. Or firewall industry, who use ZoneAlarm any more? Word Perfect? They're quite successful in software, if only because they try a lot of different markets. Like Google, they try stuff and some is very successful while some is closed down. They would be attempting to be so in the cell phone market too.

However, it's no monopoly to complain about until they at least get above 4% market share :B So, this could still go the way of the Kin. :B

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Elop worked always at companies with proprietary software. Adobe, Juniper, M$. He is suspicious about OSS.

Ditching meego was only a logical step for him, I think.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Not sure how much of an "innovation" this is. My current 5 year old phone can take calls under water...voice quality sucks though.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

It was a joke. Sadly, you forgot that I wasn't talking about Maemo. I was talking about MeeGo. Maemo as you're discussing it is basically dead. Has been since February 2010 when Nokia announced they were going to MeeGo alongside Intel. Remember?

3.7 million for Microsoft WP7. Horrible numbers. Now, produce the numbers for Maemo 5. I'm willing to bet it was less.

I'd venture to say that Maemo 5 was a lesser seller than WP7 by only one reason... Maemo 5 was sold only on one product. Ever.

WP7 is a horrible seller, I won't argue that. Makes you wonder why Nokia/Elop went towards it, now doesn't it?

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Perhaps it is you who should put down the weed, sir!

As absurd as "Nokia will never drop Maemo" and "Nokia will never drop MeeGo"? I remember reading about how absurd that was. :)

Please, continue the petty bickering. I am most amused.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

sold n8 sold 4m in the time it took microsoft sell 1.6m the N8 ALONE.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Yeah, that's Symbian not Maemo

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Does ANYBODY have numbers on how much Maemo 5 sold? Maemo overall? Anybody?

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

The only people who know the sales numbers won't disclose them, same as always.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

I've asked tons. Nobody has released the real numbers, just that one quote that it sold 100k in the first 6 weeks - which... is great if true. But final numbers have never been released.

[ EDIT ] sjgadsby beat me to it.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Pretty sure they would have sold even more with meego on board.
I fear that with abandoning their own OS now, nokia will not be able to bring customers back to meego in the future. With a symbian to meego transition they could have taken lots of nokia customers with them, my guess.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Maybe they were too embarrassed? Microsoft has taken the same attitude about reporting sales and activation numbers for Windows Phone 7.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

That's not really the point though, that's speculative figures vs the statement that Maemo outsold WP7 because S^3 sold more.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

"He must have been trying an Android phone that day," says Elop.
or maybe a usbport-less n900 *like mine*?
i guess we'll never know..

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

counting maemo 5 only a bit unfair, it didnt have 500m marketing and it was killed less than a year after release with only ONE device supporting unlike WP7 that have samsung HTC LG bunch of nobodies.

microsoft numbers so far are 2m shipment for Q4
and 1.6m Q1 which much less than ONE phone from a burning platnform (n8).