Re: The End Of Nokia
 

Maybe we can mail rape whistles to Elop's offices at Nokia to make a point? :)

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

don't worry. Nokia will never be states company. I am just trying to correct these really bizarre views from economical POV.

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

Eu bail out loser compnies/banks and countries all the time. And I have to pay for it :mad: why not Nokia? I have some roundhouse kicks to do. See you later.

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

EU doesn't bail out loser banks and countries, but European Monetary Union ('Eurozone') does. It does it in order to protect large German and French Zombie banks that have huge investments on PIIG bonds. Nokia is neiher a bank nor a country. It doesn't matter all to to the banksters that have the squeeze on Sarkozy and Merkel.

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

yeah he is abit over reacting.

but he is right, nokia as smartphone manufacturer its done unless wp7 it's a success.

bad news for nokia it wont be.

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

@Rauha Nokia is a bank

http://www.psfk.com/2009/08/nokia-mo...es-a-bank.html

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

Since this is the most trendy Doom & Gloom thread at the moment, I'll add this bit of news. The Economist doesn't see much future for Nokia either. New report from The Economist intelligence unit:

Nokia's final days?
A takeover of the world's biggest phone maker is becoming more likely with each passing quarter.
<snip>
At the same time as he threw in his lot with Microsoft, Mr Elop split Nokia into two distinct units—one focusing on the development of smartphones and the other on the manufacture of more basic handsets for the mass market. Such an arrangement may smooth the way for a takeover of the former by Microsoft and the latter by an Asian player targeting emerging markets. A company like Samsung, meanwhile, might be interested in both parts of the business. Source



:D Good catch. I had forgotten about that.

We'll I guess there's hope for intervention by Central Bank of India. Lots of Indians without proper traditional bank account stand to lose several Rupees if Nokia Money goes broke.

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

With all the internet news going on and much faster than people read it and can post on a thread here i think it is obvious we do not need reminding constantly but if you lot feel the need too then so be it, do not let me stop you :rolleyes:

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

I hope EU fight like hell to make sure Nokia is not taken from European to Asian or American.

European needs a tech company too.


Hell US is has already to much control of european. I mean Google, Microsoft;facebook.... and soo on..


So european must start fight and also make it own cool stuff. But I guess many has already given up :-(

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

I second that one 100% !!!

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

Open Pandora will never be massoproduced and if you think thats cool go buy an n900 instead. its way cooler than Open Pandora. And with help of Meego N900CE and payed consults its way cooler.

So If you think that is possible without professionals/payed engineers you really are a dreamer...

Without Nokia Meego handset will fail. Until someone can prove me I am wrong...

And dont come say "LG" or "Intel" will suppoprt Meego. Intel != unintrested in Meego Handset cause theyr HW still sucks on small embedded.

and LG==still just rumors...

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

WAIT WAIT.

Elop did split nokia into smartphone and dumbphones?

as in the smartphone part can be bought? OH MAN oh man.

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

I have said this before, but a hostile take-over, or any take-over, at Nokia is very unlikely, almost unimaginable. Lots of people would like well performing Nokia, but the present owners must also be willing to sell. Nokia is very much like VW, solid to the core. Besides Nokia as it is today is way too troubled for any serious buyer with enough cash.

Maybe a merge with SE or Huawei, or even HTC? which will work as a back door for Nokia into Android.

It is all way too speculative for me. I think Nokia will persist. WP will eventually carve out a nice market share for Nokia and Samsung to thrive. S40 will become something much more than most people is able to imagine (together with Bada), and Harmattan will live on as well as a nice little niche.

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

FULLY agree! In Sweden we had lately had broken SAAB. Instead of waste money on a dead company support engineers who start new companys.

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

Nokia may have hit the lowest part of life as a company but no way will they come to an end as too many options are available for them.

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

..and USA needed their own car companies (which almost btw went bankrupt a while ago...) aka ridiculously big SUVs....

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

Who gives a crap about Open Pandora. Estel just used as a reference.

Cordia Tab on the other hand looks really really good, smoku already has a development device.

You might want to check it out first before casting a stone.

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

Where do you get the 'hostile' part from?

Elop and the Nokia board are acting anything but hostile. In fact, they're practically begging on their knees to be taken over and raped. The massive amounts of unrequited Microsoft love they're showing is downright creepy.

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

IF that is the case then can you blame them? after all MS can save there bacon ;)

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

Agree. But I wouldn't take their silence as fealty to Microsoft. Just a silent agreement to Elop's plan that WP7 may/may not work for them.

My only problem so far has been the notion that MeeGo was going to be their savior whereas it's not been a major money maker for Intel as of yet. Intel thinks in terms of generations and long-term.

Nokia doesn't have that luxury at this very moment. Perhaps behind the scenes, MeeGo will be a major player in 3, 4 generations down the path. But it was more than likely not going to be a mainstream seller because... well, nobody knows of it yet outside of us geeks.

Wait and see. That's my mantra (yet again).

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

This is where we disagree because no way are us geeks the only known quantity to MeeGo.

I also would like to see Mango completed with N900 drivers so it could be installed as an os.

Never read enough to see your comments of WP7 but would like to know them as i know you played a lot in that area.

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

Easy now, or you will end up like Tomi. The smartphone "war" is lost as far as Nokia is concerned. They have given up. MeeGo is gone and Symbian will be gone pretty soon. They see a future with WP, but the days where Nokia had it all will never come back. WP was lesser of two evils, the other was Android. But you can't look back, you have to look fwd and make the best of what you have right now. WP will be good for Nokia, unless it fails miserably, but if it fails it will be MS that looses, not Nokia. Nokia has already lost. I really don't see MS giving up on this. Even if the Mango iteration should fail (unlikely, but a possibility), they will simply improve further until they get it right, and Nokia is on for the ride.

S40 is much more interesting for Nokia than WP. That is where the volumes are, and that is where they have full control. The C2 touch and type series are smartphones for all practical purposes, and for the moment there is nothing that can compete with it. I am actually considering getting one myself, the market for apps on S40 is like nothing you will ever see, and web-apps looks fun and interesting in many ways. I was skeptical about all this, but this something to consider if you are a developer. Harmattan will hump along for the ride, taking advantage of Ovi and Qt.

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

There might be a problem for Nokia with S40 because Elop in his wisdom may well have god rid of all the Symbian developers inside Nokia, and if WP fails for instance and Nokia have to start somewhere, what area is left for them that has any developers left inside of the company? just food for thought.

My definition of a smartphone is a device that will play anything you want it too, IF WP get's to that point then count me in !.

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

not only smartphone war but also tablet war! they don't have only one tablet to propose to consummers!
all manufacturers have one

Apple: ipad
Motorola: Xoom
LG: Optimus Pad
Samsung: Galaxy Tab
Sony Ericsson: S1
blackberry: playbook
HP(!): Touch pad
HTC: Flyer

nokia???

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

If you're outside of the automotive industry or these forums (TMO & MeeGo.com) I'm more than willing to bet they've not heard of MeeGo.

I've had quite a few comments about WP7. Love the UI, dislike the lack of apps that I've gotten accustomed to on iOS and Android. It's much maligned for no reason, but at the same time I can declare it to be a mediocre OS at the moment. Was playing with Mango (Build 7661) and IE9 is honestly quite the improvement.

I'm not a fan of their (MS Visual Studio .NET) development platform - been too many years since I've developed .NET actively. Wanted to see if Maemo 6/Qt would be a better fit for me, but more than likely stick to Android dev instead - can do Adobe AIR or Android App Inventor.

With that said, WP7 is better than folks give it credit. But I have to honestly stills ay that it's not good enough to have gambled Nokia's immediate future on though. And that's after a month solid of using it, playing with it, looking at code and investing into it some time.

Integration is lacking, UI feels snappy, e-mail app sorta sucks but beats Modest, browser (before IE9) REALLY sucks, no Adobe Flash yet, XBOX integration is sweet as hell if you have one, boots quickly, needs better hardware, isn't optimized for the existing hardware, has decent games, lacks front camera (until Mango), not bad on battery life (better than N900)... there you go. Rapid fire feedback.

I'd say that it's overly simplified though. They're outdoing Apple in that regard (not a good thing).

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

I do honestly appreciate your comments about WP because quite frankly i have never played more than a few minutes worth and looking at what you have just said i would say for sure once Nokia get the "Nokia" handset ready i am sure WP will be much more advanced than before.

I respect your opinions even if some don't and would read your future comments on WP also.

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

You have a hope that I no longer have... not sure about Nokia's offerings being that much different than the other WP7 phones.

Thanks. Not sure if I ever set out to have my opinions respected; just here for the talk and news about the future products.

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

windows phone its worse in everything else

mutltitask
customization
IM chat integration
even SKYPE :p and microsoft bought it.

popular apps like whatsapp dont exist in wp7, there is even a s40 version.

lets be honest if the tiles were not animated, it would be a liveless square no difference of what we get on other platforms

apps are even displayed in a list. yes a LIST.

microsoft have to improve those to be competitive.

make the tiles more like WIDGETS, make windows phone user themeable. etc

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

Nothing new buts its worth repeating.

Nokia's profit margins will go down like it happened with all hardware manufacturers who don't control the software part. Lets not forget that nokia stocks were dropping because investors realized nokia will become another Dell. Not exactly irrelevant but nowhere near the expected profit margins they would have had even with a relatively small Qt ecosystem. Remember nokia once said they think about outsourcing manufacturing and concentrate on software, it looks like elop has other plans.

Quote from an investment banker (businessinsider.com):

The old CEO was fired, and Stephen Elop, a Microsoft executive, was brought in as CEO. It seemed that things were getting brighter. However, knowing what I know now, I truly believe that Mr. Elop was the worst thing that ever happened to Nokia and one of the best things that had happened to Microsoft for a long time. Elop announced that Nokia would abandon both Symbian and MeeGo and start making cell phones to run exclusively under the Microsoft Windows OS. With this move, Nokia went from being an Apple-like business that could differentiate itself from competitors because it controlled software and hardware and commanding low-teen profit margins (Apple’s margins are actually pushing the low 20s now), to a Dell-like company with net margins of 5% in a good year.

Though the Windows decision may have benefited Nokia in the short run, in the long run it reminded me what IBM did with Microsoft in the ’80s: it saw little value in the software and went after the hardware business. Cell-phone hardware will become ubiquitous in a few years and Nokia will be competing on price and manufacturing efficiency with its rivals. Microsoft on the other hand will get Windows installed on a huge number of phones, and it will benefit from Nokia’s enormous distribution system. And it only cost Microsoft a billion or two. When this announcement was made the market rightfully punished Nokia stock, and we got out at around $8.

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

Moody’s sinks Nokia’s value
http://www.scancomark.se/Companies/M...ias-value.html
US ratings agency Moody's cut its credit rating on bonds of Finnish phone maker Nokia by two notches on Wednesday and said the outlook on the rating was still negative. Moody’s is the third ratings agency to cut Nokia’s credit rating, after Fitch and S&P downgraded Nokia last month.

Nokia In Trouble As Moody’s Downgrades Debt To Just Above Junk
http://mobileinsider.mobi/news/934
Nokia is sitting by while most of the other phone manufacturers keep releasing new phones into the market that people want. Android and iPhone are extremely popular and Windows Phones still need to make a dent in the market and gain enough market share to make a difference. At this point, that has not happened. While Nokia is in limbo, people are shopping for their competitors phones and is evidenced by Nokia’s downgrading of sales.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2788/...91c0640808.jpg

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

Just found this.......

http://www.phonesreview.co.uk/tag/mango/

The first Windows Phone with 7.5 Mango is the Toshiba IS12t, and this smartphone will come with awesome tiles, mobile version of Office, Xbox LIVE integration and so much more, to give you more of what it will feature a new video has been release.

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

And if this is the case just where and what is Nokia up to ?.
Or is this something that was being developed pre Elop takover?.

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

I think it is easier to stick to the truth. Nokia couldn't make Symbian or MeeGo competitive vs Android or iOS. Regarding Symbian that is all too obvious. Personally I like Symbian a lot and think it is just perfect, I don't mind clunkyness. But still today after 4-5 years of modernizing, it is not competitive against iOS and Android when the clunkyness-factor is taken into consideration. MeeGo is also too obvious, maybe in 4 years it will be OK. Harmattan (Maemo) I am not so sure. The N900 is no more clunky than my brand new Anna E6. The N9 UI looks nothing less than awesome, but the N9 is here no matter what happens to plan A.

Nokia saw no other alternative than going WP or Android. They chose WP because that was a better deal than Android. We will never know all the details, but MS surely has loads of money, and WP will always be "higher end" than Android. MS will keep on hammering until WP is the best OS overall. Then there is S40. Going WP allows Nokia to steam ahead with S40 and the S40 ecosystem (Ovi). This is all Nokia, and it is steaming ahead right now, growing like no other ecosystems. Android would eat into that as well.

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http://blog.ovi.com/wp-content/uploa...promo-2-v2.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ro3vdiFMyt...llmer-Elop.png

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Have to agree with you there and also i feel the same as you in that MS will now push WP untill as you said and when you can run anything within it and this i think is the way they will go, popularity will rise.....

The N9 UI does look comfortable i have to admit but i will wait and see all the reviews when it has been out a while before committing myself, maybe as Nokia have stated there will be no support forthcoming and this i do not think will happen IF it takes off anything like i think it will..... BUT what will Elop do if and when this situation arises because no way will he want the popularity on anything but WP ! so there might be a problem !.

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

I don't think anyone was upset about Nokia releasing WP phones. The problem is, Nokia gave up its OSes (especially Symbian, which had a HUGE worldwide market).
A smart CEO would have said something like: Starting sometime next year, we are going to release some WP phones. We will also improve Symbian and Meego.

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

This forum is about Maemo/Meego and open source but it looks more like a marketplace for Android and WP lately :mad:

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

Elop/Nokia chose WP7.

NITDroid exists on the N900.

Not quite sure what you're complaining about... both relate to Nokia and invariably will receive support after Maemo/MeeGo is truly dumped by Nokia.

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

Blahblah used to be InternetTabletTalk blahblah. Just thought I'd say it, so the usual suspects don't have to. :D

Re: The End Of Nokia
 

You took my follow up post, almost verbatim.

Damn you.