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-   -   A significant day in community governance? (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75431)

danramos 2011-08-03 07:45
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vi_ (Post 1063166)
the invention of snake 2???
Is that open-sourced? Wait... Did they even port that to Maemo? :)

lma 2011-08-03 07:52
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1062993)
I just wonder how Intel is responding to this bit of news.
I'm guessing they are not entirely unhappy, as they would probably prefer everything to be on AppUp anyway.

lma 2011-08-03 08:19
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by slaapliedje (Post 1063091)
Really meego.com is owned by the Linux Foundation and... WTF? They are supposed to be the ones who always fight for Open Source and all that jazz.

Seriously!?
Well... with a name like that you'd be forgiven to think so, but this is the same Linux Foundation that threw decades of good development, code reuse and packaging practices with their "compliance" spec, killed any community-led respins (Smeegol, Fedora) with their trademark policy (though "MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan" is alright for some reason) and is trying to remove all GPLv3 code from the distribution.

Quote:
According to Wikipedia (yeah, so it MUST be true!);

"The Linux Foundation (LF) is a non-profit consortium chartered to foster the growth of Linux."
Exactly, Linux. Not Free Software or even Open Source.

Quote:
Let's face it the only 'ecosystem' (I hate using that word...it's become dirty)
Another word for it is food chain, and of course anyone who talks about it really wants to be at the top.

jo21 2011-08-03 08:36
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
well it looks like it's really happening

microsoft and apple are so afraid of being moved out by linux on the mobile space they are going to sue everything open source.

i wonder if that even possible considering by being open source the code its distributed.

i wonder if LF have a real reason to do this, IE patent trolls already threaten them to.

danramos 2011-08-03 08:40
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jo21 (Post 1063204)
well it looks like it's really happening

microsoft and apple are so afraid of being moved out by linux on the mobile space they are going to sue everything open source.

i wonder if that even possible considering by being open source the code its distributed.

i wonder if LF have a real reason to do this, IE patent trolls already threaten them to.
How would we know? They're not very open. :P

SD69 2011-08-03 08:42
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qole (Post 1063108)
Yeah, exactly. This is really shameful behaviour by the "Guardians of Linux" themselves. Honestly, blocking a community open source app repository because of supposed potential legal issues? Seriously? WTF?!

We got a big presentation at the San Francisco conference from the guys building apps.meego.com and honestly it was one of the only bits of the conference that didn't feel like vaporware pie-in-the-sky or, even worse, like flies buzzing over a corpse. There was a real feeling of positive momentum there in that talk, like things were moving forward and the pieces were fitting into place.

According to the post by lbt, they were just as blindsided and frustrated by the nonsense as everyone else. And my sense is that Nokians were in a panic as well.

This is actually a very sad and worrisome development for open source. If the Linux Foundation itself, on the 20th anniversary of Linux, is this jittery, what's going to happen to the rest of the Open Source world?
I agree that the apps.meego.com presentation was encouraging, and this news is very discouraging. But there were also indications at the MeeGo Conference that LF had made a compromise with MeeGo. It was clear from the TSG and other structural mechanisms that MeeGo did not exactly have the open governance that you see in many OSS projects, but that it was worth it to LF I guess because MeeGo pushes out a fair amount of OSS, including upstream, and generally advances the cause of Linux. It's not the first time a non-profit has collaborated with corporations on a project and perhaps compromised a little for the greater good.

But I would like this thread to get back to the themes in the OP rather than being a Nokia pity party or an LF criticism. I'd like people to talk about their views on maemo.org, and whether there is despite, the practical challenges, a certain "stability" to its community governance that I would hope attract developers to continue to support it because they know the rug won't be pulled out from underneath them. There is I think an advantage to doing your own thing and not have your future compromised by what's going on "behind those curtains", as you put it earlier.

lbt 2011-08-03 09:47
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
SD69 - Thanks for this - I saw your comment in the thread I posted. Allow me to add what I can:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SD69 (Post 1062830)
Well, now it is made public, after a brief period of secrecy, that - surprise! - MeeGo will refuse
So, to clarify ... MeeGo use LF to provide hosting. LF have been advised by their legal to refuse us. LF can't/won't say any more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD69 (Post 1062830)
The sad situation was rather unofficially described by lbt here:
http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Apps/Problem_Statement
Wouldn't say unofficial - LF told me directly (phone call so no transcription) then followed up with mails cc'ed to Dawn and Quim and Ibrahim. I just volunteered to do the comms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD69 (Post 1062830)
Unfortunately, the problem has not been succinctly stated and rather vaguely blamed on patents, so it is hard to address the possible solutions and effect. But it seems to a sucker punch to the kidneys.
Yes. It hurt.

snip of Maemo vs MeeGo.

OT:

Yes, IMNSHO Maemo is a dead platform (not community) now. MeeGo is where it is happening. IMHO the Maemo community should be extending to encompass MeeGo and not getting hung up over a name. Of course, by not doing so, MeeGo is being controlled by the only people over there ... corporates.

I have this not entirely positive image of all the maemo kids standing on one side of the playground and drawing lines in the dirt to differentiate maemo from meego.... it's a big open space and no-one is stopping you from being friendly and helping the new project work. Intel are not evil, they're just not experienced at doing OSS community. Nokia took years to get it ... (I was going to say "right") to where it is now.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SD69 (Post 1062830)
The proposed alternative site (apps.formeego.com) seems to be a corporate-sponsored site from our own long lost friend, Nokia.

A maemo.org run by the community would never make such a decision.
ROFL - formeego.org/com (we have both) is more grass-roots than maemo. Currently it's "owned" by Thomas, Neils and I. Whilst we are contractors even we don't have the spare cash to setup all the HW needed ... so you bet your arse it's running on corporate provided HW :

THANK YOU NOKIA

(who we recognise still have an interest in making Harmattan apps work)

Oh. It also sits in the same rackspace as maemo.org .... for now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD69 (Post 1062830)
To maemo and other mobile linux developers, to those of you who support open source, those of you who have said maemo is dead, and those of you who have accepted "free" N950s - think carefully, think twice, and please continue to support maemo.org
:)
To those in maemo.org burying their heads in the sand: MeeGo community is young and needs people who are passionate about ensuring it grows into a real opensource community. That won't happen if you don't get involved. If the name change bothers you then think of the new T-shirts...

BTW .. did I mention that Neils and I made a huge effort to make the MeeGo infra support Fremantle and Harmattan.... if that's not "continue to support maemo.org" then what is?

mrsellout 2011-08-03 09:52
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
This is certainly an interesting situation. So it seems like the 'meego community' may have to move to a different domain in order to insulate the LF from patent violations - taken from here.

That is an interesting scenario, because maemo.org is also at a crossroads as to where it's future lies - both spiritually and physically. Rather than create formeego.org could it be a possibility to re-integrate the 2 communities under a mobileopensource.org moniker or something and save the hassle of recreating 2 seperate infrastructures within a year or so?

lbt 2011-08-03 09:54
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SD69 (Post 1062948)
There is not a problem with all the meego apps. The apps from corporations will still be accepted at meego.com. Apparently, it is the mere fact that an app is from an individual developer that will be the basis for its refusal. Nevermind that maemo.org has shown that there can be a effective QA process for such apps.
I wasn't entirely clear. The phone call was long and during it the justification was that individually contributed apps are not subject to the same review as those apps that end up in meego or the reference codebase. Individual apps will still of course be welcome in core MeeGo or the reference codebase.

I personally don't think any code undergoes any meaningful review wrt the stated threat. I do think that having a clear providence may mitigate the legal risk. Since LF won't comment I am speculating.

There will be no apps.meego.com at all - especially not for corporate apps.

apps.formeego.org is the successor to maemo extras and written by much of the same team.

lbt 2011-08-03 09:56
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bergie (Post 1062988)
Yep, as I wrote on FMC, this will give us as a community more freedom on how to run the Apps service on long term.

But obviously the timing was still frustrating as everything was pretty much ready and done and now has to be transferred to new infra.

The patent situation across the Atlantic is looking worse day by day. I wonder if they'll have a software industry left in ten years...
Timely : http://www.economist.com/blogs/democ...ctual-property

lbt 2011-08-03 09:57
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1062993)
I just wonder how Intel is responding to this bit of news.
Dawn is on holiday. Nothing from Imad yet.

lbt 2011-08-03 10:02
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 1063096)
That's the thing... why was this "secret" until now? Isn't the Linux Foundation all about the open? What happened to "open"? Same for Nokia and Intel, both. What's with this lack of openness all-around? I'm pretty sure "saving face" isn't helping anything.
Well I have to take some blame for that.

My gut response was "this can't be right ... someone doesn't understand... lets not cause alarm"

So I think it was me who suggested we try to resolve it behind the scenes assuming some kind of error due to misunderstanding.

In the end I was wrong about that - still, I stand by my original opinion.

vi_ 2011-08-03 10:06
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
Cool story lbt, but if you think I'm going to abandon my more or less working and fully functional software platform for one that:

1. isn't for end users.
2. Won't be available for my hardware
3. Is slow as a hoard of geriatric turtles stampeding through Siberian treacle at the height of the ninth ice age.
4. Doesn't actually have any working hardware platform I can migrate to.

I dunno what your smoking, most of the maemo dev talent has already been poached for harmattan (i.e. not meego) and now you come here to tell us were all luddite ostriches for not immediately jumping to your half-broken script-a-joke.

lbt 2011-08-03 10:08
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
And now you have the next step - (almost) totally open MeeGo development ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 1063144)
And now we get this repository hosting crisis out of nowhere that was kept secret from the communities it effects. Cripes!
So - that was nothing to do with Nokia. Purely a MeeGo/LF issue.

lbt 2011-08-03 10:22
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vi_ (Post 1063290)
Cool story lbt, but if you think I'm going to abandon my more or less working and fully functional software platform for one that:

1. isn't for end users.
2. Won't be available for my hardware
3. Is slow as a hoard of geriatric turtles stampeding through Siberian treacle at the height of the ninth ice age.
4. Doesn't actually have any working hardware platform I can migrate to.

I dunno what your smoking, most of the maemo dev talent has already been poached for harmattan (i.e. not meego) and now you come here to tell us were all luddite ostriches for not immediately jumping to your half-broken script-a-joke.
Don't blame you one bit. My wife uses maemo and I wouldn't ask her to use MeeGo yet - every point you make is true (well, "won't" in 2 isn't quite right if you're on the N900 ....)

OTOH I was (too?) implicitly talking to people who were taking a longer term view and actually wanted to influence the direction of MeeGo / maemo.

Please don't misunderstand.... MeeGo isn't ready for maemo.org users like you just yet. And the longer it takes for the maemo community to step up to smooth out the bumps the farther off that day will be ....

... you may want to look around to make sure there's nothing burning though. It's hard to rush that kind of thing.

lbt 2011-08-03 10:23
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsellout (Post 1063274)
This is certainly an interesting situation. So it seems like the 'meego community' may have to move to a different domain in order to insulate the LF from patent violations - taken from here.

That is an interesting scenario, because maemo.org is also at a crossroads as to where it's future lies - both spiritually and physically. Rather than create formeego.org could it be a possibility to re-integrate the 2 communities under a mobileopensource.org moniker or something and save the hassle of recreating 2 seperate infrastructures within a year or so?
Yep - that's what we feel we're building.

Anyone should feel free to bikeshed the name though :D

lbt 2011-08-03 10:28
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
OK ... I've tried to answer some points here.

TIme is limited and I think this is mainly a meego issue so I'm off to try and help out over there.

Clearly I care about the future of maemo.org but that's not a debate I'm engaging in.

If you need anything on the infra side to make meego/formeego work better with maemo then come and talk on irc or the mls or the meego forum.

vi_ 2011-08-03 10:32
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lbt (Post 1063300)
Don't blame you one bit. My wife uses maemo and I wouldn't ask her to use MeeGo yet - every point you make is true (well, "won't" in 2 isn't quite right if you're on the N900 ....)

OTOH I was (too?) implicitly talking to people who were taking a longer term view and actually wanted to influence the direction of MeeGo / maemo.

Please don't misunderstand.... MeeGo isn't ready for maemo.org users like you just yet. And the longer it takes for the maemo community to step up to smooth out the bumps the farther off that day will be ....

... you may want to look around to make sure there's nothing burning though. It's hard to rush that kind of thing.
Quote:
MeeGo isn't ready for maemo.org users like you just yet.
ouch, low blow.

Quote:
And the longer it takes for the maemo community to step up to smooth out the bumps the farther off that day will be ....
What? You just heavily implied I was incapable of making any contribution!

Quote:
... you may want to look around to make sure there's nothing burning though. It's hard to rush that kind of thing.
Thats rich, we all know maemo 5 is toast. It has had it's day. We will never see the closed parts of the code and all those WONTFIX, FIXD IN HARMATTANs will remain a thorn in my side much akin to some wrongly tagged mp3's in a 3 year old screencap.

The difference is Maemo users already know this, Meego crew don't seem to realise that they have already been burnt, discarded and are struggling to keep warm over the charcoaled remains of your binary blobs.

mrsellout 2011-08-03 10:40
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SD69 (Post 1063211)
But I would like this thread to get back to the themes in the OP rather than being a Nokia pity party or an LF criticism. I'd like people to talk about their views on maemo.org, and whether there is despite, the practical challenges, a certain "stability" to its community governance that I would hope attract developers to continue to support it because they know the rug won't be pulled out from underneath them. There is I think an advantage to doing your own thing and not have your future compromised by what's going on "behind those curtains", as you put it earlier.
The problem we have at maemo.org is hardware. The functional n900s out there will drop in number as time goes on. The CordiaTab is a great idea, but how many developers will it attract, and will it gain critical mass to sustain the numbers in this community?

If, as lbt points out,
Quote:
formeego.org/com (we have both) is more grass-roots than maemo. Currently it's "owned" by Thomas, Neils and I.
any questions about governance should be settled.

And
Quote:
BTW .. did I mention that Neils and I made a huge effort to make the MeeGo infra support Fremantle and Harmattan.... if that's not "continue to support maemo.org" then what is?
could solve another dilemma.

I think the maemo community could find it's home with the formeego.org (or whatever) umbrella, just as the n8x0, and n770 community remains apart of maemo.org. I appreciate that this debate was fought and lost months before I joined the site, but we have to face certain realities here (i.e. no more funding) and it saddens me to think that such a vibrant community has been splintered into various factions, and that maemo.org could fizzle out.

Jedibeeftrix 2011-08-03 10:54
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1063020)
I have to agree seems biggest mistake Nokia actually did was go meego and "discontinue" Maemo that infacts IS still is alive in form of Meego Harmattan. a closer look it still maemocore but qt instead of gtk.
i think it is the cleverest thing they have done, because they have made QT the defacto development environment for mobile linux in general, and moblin in particular.

abill_uk 2011-08-03 11:33
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vi_ (Post 1063290)
Cool story lbt, but if you think I'm going to abandon my more or less working and fully functional software platform for one that:

1. isn't for end users.
2. Won't be available for my hardware
3. Is slow as a hoard of geriatric turtles stampeding through Siberian treacle at the height of the ninth ice age.
4. Doesn't actually have any working hardware platform I can migrate to.

I dunno what your smoking, most of the maemo dev talent has already been poached for harmattan (i.e. not meego) and now you come here to tell us were all luddite ostriches for not immediately jumping to your half-broken script-a-joke.
vi i agree with you on this one 1000% and i can see very clear where your coming from !.

Do you remember qgil who preached about Maemo and the work that would be done that never was? i am sure you do.

Your second post below this is true also .....

"The difference is Maemo users already know this, Meego crew don't seem to realise that they have already been burnt, discarded and are struggling to keep warm over the charcoaled remains of your binary blobs"

I am looking at dejavu here with lbt and qgil wow it is strikingly similar the way they are talking ....

"Please don't misunderstand.... MeeGo isn't ready for maemo.org users like you just yet. And the longer it takes for the maemo community to step up to smooth out the bumps the farther off that day will be .... "

So now it looks like we get the same story with MeeGo and for what? to be dumped yet again?.

I will not reply to lbt's post because we would end up fighting for sure but i tell you this, no way i will believe anything to do with MeeGo after they deliberatly as you said, poached most if not all the devs away from Maemo then still did not get anywhere with it !!!.

Maemo is NOT dead, what is dead is the fact nobody wants to move in any direction towards Maemo.

Maemo actually WORKS !!! more than i can say for the sad excuse for MeeGo right now.

OH dont tell me, we got to muck in and make MeeGo work :confused:.

abill_uk 2011-08-03 11:47
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
I now understand what this thread is all about.... now we have the N9 we all "have to" switch to MeeGo and completely forget about Maemo...

Daneel 2011-08-03 11:50
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
You are a tool.

gerbick 2011-08-03 12:05
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1063372)
I now understand what this thread is all about.... now we have the N9 we all "have to" switch to MeeGo and completely forget about Maemo...
Not quite. I'd say read the thread again, but allow me to say this in summary...

Linux Foundation is avoiding future patent trolling. Smart on their part. Maemo as an OS was to be replaced by MeeGo, still the case.

abill_uk 2011-08-03 12:39
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1063383)
Not quite. I'd say read the thread again, but allow me to say this in summary...

Linux Foundation is avoiding future patent trolling. Smart on their part. Maemo as an OS was to be replaced by MeeGo, still the case.
Yes i get the point clear but what people do not realise is many want linux to stop being a free source of development and it looks like they got to fight for that.

Linux will probably stay alive but not free and the promises of firstly Maemo then MeeGo to be open source never happened did it so now the squeeze carries on.

MeeGo as far as the N900 is concerned will never replace Maemo, we all know this now and that means we have Maemo dropped completely by Nokia for MeeGo and now MeeGo is going its own way commercially not free source like it was portrayed.

The N900 is probably THE only device Maemo will ever be an os for and unless somone can create a path to the closed code then Maemo is truly dead without further development even without all the closed bits.

Free development in THIS world? hahahahahahahaha.

daperl 2011-08-03 13:30
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
formeego.org is too subtle. How about some aliases like:

freemeego.org

or

libremeego.org

abill_uk 2011-08-03 13:34
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
You people just do not get it do you.

Look at what has happened with Maemo ok.

Maemo.org was started so that developers could develop applications and games etc but when it came to attaching them to the Maemo os the problems started simply because of the closed situation studded with patents and copyrights we have, still on going with Maemo and that is why we got all these crashes going on because you just can not write to an os that is closed in any way or form.

Same with MeeGo, everyone was asked to develop for MeeGo (free community development) then all of a sudden you find the MeeGo os is going to be closed and "outside" development will not be allowed in....

Quole said .....

When Nokia made the open-source community repositories available "out of the box" on the N900, it was a bold, wonderful step forward, away from the Official App Store approach of all the other mobile platforms. Everything I'm hearing from Quim and the community app team suggests that this will happen again on the N9.

I promise you, having the rug pulled from under the community repositories at this late stage of the game is even more frustrating to Nokia than it is to community developers, if not MORE SO.

And as for the (third-party) apps, whether corporate or individual, they are not going to be hosted at meego.com. Not a single one of them. That's the whole problem.

This is actually a very sad and worrisome development for open source. If the Linux Foundation itself, on the 20th anniversary of Linux, is this jittery, what's going to happen to the rest of the Open Source world?

Nokia is, or should i say was very big and at one point could have pulled it together to enable a community to get involved, that never happened once again because of patents and copywrit code.

For a community to work the first thing it must have is the openess of the os it is involved in and writing for, without this it is a clear impossibilty and the very reason Maemo.org has failed with Maemo.

You guys can dream of a open community but when it is being asked to write for closed os's then it just will not work.

Forget free development because it will never work in this world as someone or something will shut it down eventually.

gerbick 2011-08-03 13:43
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1063425)
You people just do not get it do you.
I'd gather that it's you that's not getting it. The statements are all out there, the issue isn't with Nokia.

The decision came down from the Linux Foundation. Nokia is guilty of many things around Maemo/MeeGo, but not this one decision, what's being discussed in this thread is all about the LF's decision.

abill_uk 2011-08-03 13:49
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
Gerbick it is all about open source and it will just not work beacuse of it's limitations.

mikecomputing 2011-08-03 13:54
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 1063079)
Well, the question works well on its head too... do you trust Nokia on this? Do you think they are interested in this? Based on their public statements, shifted funding and posturing, I doubt it.
true but again what is the alternative? ask ggoogle for help? ;)

abill_uk 2011-08-03 14:09
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
I am not on about Nokia, this is all about open source and keeping linux open source.

Not going to work if it is applied to a closed source, this community has proved that and i was bringing in Nokia as a perfect example.

Daneel 2011-08-03 14:23
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_YOibnJ7o-4...0/dumbass1.jpg

ysss 2011-08-03 14:27
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
The following person have unmet dependencies:
participation: Depends: libcommon-sense (>= 1.0.0) but it is not found
Depends: libintelligence (>= 1.0.0) but it is not available
Depends: libself-control (>= 1.0.0) but it is not around
Depends: libtact (>= 1.0.0) but it is not there
Recommends: goback-to-school but it is not going to be done
E: Broken packages

gerbick 2011-08-03 14:28
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1063452)
I am not on about Nokia, this is all about open source and keeping linux open source.

Not going to work if it is applied to a closed source, this community has proved that and i was bringing in Nokia as a perfect example.
What's closed source? I'm not following your argument since it's not framed properly with the content in this thread.

Mind you, I'm trying to understand, but as it stands, what's closed source so far on the N950/N9 is the Swipe UX. The rest, open. LF is stating that they are not going to house possibly patent infringing software, but they're not dooming Linux. It will exist, people will still be able to develop for Linux and thus MeeGo.

Nothing is going away other than the fact that the repositories as we know it will not exist for MeeGo. But it doesn't mean that Linux dies.

Linux will prevail. It's the software that will be housed differently.

abill_uk 2011-08-03 14:46
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1063479)
What's closed source? I'm not following your argument since it's not framed properly with the content in this thread.

Mind you, I'm trying to understand, but as it stands, what's closed source so far on the N950/N9 is the Swipe UX. The rest, open. LF is stating that they are not going to house possibly patent infringing software, but they're not dooming Linux. It will exist, people will still be able to develop for Linux and thus MeeGo.

Nothing is going away other than the fact that the repositories as we know it will not exist for MeeGo. But it doesn't mean that Linux dies.

Linux will prevail. It's the software that will be housed differently.
I guess i am at one end of the field and you the other.

You just said "LF is stating that they are not going to house possibly patent infringing software", ok now look at the situation when linux was applied to the N900 then applied to this community to further develop?.

Why did it fall flat on its face?.

gerbick 2011-08-03 14:55
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1063499)
I guess i am at one end of the field and you the other.
Quite.

Quote:
You just said "LF is stating that they are not going to house possibly patent infringing software", ok now look at the situation when linux was applied to the N900 then applied to this community to further develop?.
It has absolute zero to do with Linux. It has more to do with the repositories and applications. The way applications will be handled by the hobbyist and community developer is what is in question. Not the OS. Not Linux.

Re-read this wiki article...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeeGo Wiki
LF have refused permission to :
  • use the domain apps.meego.com or apps.for.meego.com to identify the service
  • host the apps.meego.com service within the MeeGo infrastructure at OSU
Nowhere in there does it say that Linux dies. In fact, it doesn't say that Maemo/MeeGo dies. What does get affected is if you are a developer, that's not working for Skype or Nokia or Electronic Arts or Corporation X (any company), the repositories that we know and use for Maemo (Maemo Extras for instance) is what is in question - among other things.

So what's community involvement beyond bug fixes, patches and improvement of the base OS? How do you get your apps out there? Does Intel AppUp include developers? Does it include non-commercial and non-x86 apps?

Community is the problem. It's involvement has changed. And there's no answer.

Not that Linux is going away or fell on its face or <insert any other wrong statement here>. Seriously... pull back, re-read what's going on, and you'll see that the problem is nowhere near where you're concentrating.

It's a huge problem, and you're just kilometers/miles away in your questions and concerns.

abill_uk 2011-08-03 15:15
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1063511)
Quite.



It has absolute zero to do with Linux. It has more to do with the repositories and applications. The way applications will be handled by the hobbyist and community developer is what is in question. Not the OS. Not Linux.

Re-read this wiki article...



Nowhere in there does it say that Linux dies. In fact, it doesn't say that Maemo/MeeGo dies. What does get affected is if you are a developer, that's not working for Skype or Nokia or Electronic Arts or Corporation X (any company), the repositories that we know and use for Maemo (Maemo Extras for instance) is what is in question - among other things.

So what's community involvement beyond bug fixes, patches and improvement of the base OS? How do you get your apps out there? Does Intel AppUp include developers? Does it include non-commercial and non-x86 apps?

Community is the problem. It's involvement has changed. And there's no answer.

Not that Linux is going away or fell on its face or <insert any other wrong statement here>. Seriously... pull back, re-read what's going on, and you'll see that the problem is nowhere near where you're concentrating.

It's a huge problem, and you're just kilometers/miles away in your questions and concerns.
The problem is all around patents and that is the difference between true open source and closed source.

If a piece of software has a patent attached to it and is used or ajoined in any way or form to a piece of linux code then they COULD become liable for infringment yes?.

If your applying an open sourced written software (OSS) to closed source (Proprietary software) then unless you have permissions from the holder of the patent, license or what ever you want to call it, you can land in deep water if he does not agree with what you have done to or with his code.

That is basically the problem, mixing OSS with proprietary software in a way that leaves you non liable legally with no route to become liable.

rotoflex 2011-08-03 15:33
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by daperl (Post 1063421)
formeego.org

freemeego.org

libremeego.org
All 3 sound like warez sites with virus & trojan-ridden programs.
If they showed up in a search engine, I would keep looking.

The copyright/licensing issue is making a very legitimate-looking URL difficult.

qole 2011-08-03 15:44
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lbt (Post 1063267)
BTW .. did I mention that Neils and I made a huge effort to make the MeeGo infra support Fremantle and Harmattan.... if that's not "continue to support maemo.org" then what is?
What? No Diablo support? I am APPALLED, Sir! :eek:

;)

TheLongshot 2011-08-03 15:59
Re: A significant day in community governance?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1063400)
MeeGo as far as the N900 is concerned will never replace Maemo, we all know this now and that means we have Maemo dropped completely by Nokia for MeeGo and now MeeGo is going its own way commercially not free source like it was portrayed.
First off, "never" is a strong word. Ultimately, it is really the only way forward for the N900 since modifying Maemo 5 is always going to be limited. How well it works is going to depend on the will of those developing Meego. Obviously, the past doesn't bode well, but since we aren't depending on Nokia anymore to do these things it is probably a better chance than most.

Not sure what the hell the second half of your statement is saying. Meego is still an open source project and this statement doesn't change that. It is disappointing that LF didn't step up to the plate on this one, and to be honest I've been having some doubts that they are going to be fully supportive of Meego, but I don't know where you are getting the "commercially" from when that aspect doesn't really exist as of yet for Meego. (Harmattan doesn't really count.)


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