Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

Other information in the results:
MS might be paying Nokia 250MUSD per quarter. Quite a good amount.

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

Yes they are and from the Nokia interim report it says..
Quote
"Our broad strategic agreement with Microsoft includes platform support payments from Microsoft to us as well as
software royalty payments from us to Microsoft. In the fourth quarter 2011, we received the first quarterly
platform support payment of USD 250 million (EUR 180 million). We have a competitive software royalty structure,
which includes minimum software royalty commitments. Over the life of the agreement, both the platform support
payments and the minimum software royalty commitments are expected to measure in the billions of US Dollars."

This sounds like the 250 could be close to the minimum. and given the reported sales this may only grow with sales. we will see I guess.

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

Yeah, that sure does sound like something we'd heard before the MS partnership, and yes, I might very well be reaching. However, check out the Nokia 2011 Q4 Results PDF before you go dismissing it. It's a 60 page pdf, however :rolleyes:. Let me make it easier--checkout page 40 and the beginning of page 41:

By the time Nokia launched the N9, the announcement about MS was already out there. It may be a poor write-up, but the way it's written, it doesn't sound like Nokia is done with Meego 1.2 Harmattan yet...

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

I would love to think that the N9 really sold better than Lumia, but I think it is much more likely that the N9 sales have been totally insignificant.

We don't know Nokia N9 or N900 sales, but judging from the download statistics from Maemo.org and the amount of users on this site, the N900 sales are probably in the 200.000 - 500.000 range.
If the amount of applications in Ovi store is an indication, it would suggest that N9 didn't sell a lot better.

The fact that apple sold 37m iphones in one quarter is absolutely amazing, but doesn't mean that smartphone with a lot less sales can't be considered successful.

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

They, the same funds, used to own Nokia, but after they denied Vanjoki to be the next CEO and forced Nokia to take Elop instead as a next CEO, they sold their shares away.

Fidelity (Magellan) is a big MS shareholder also and owned quite a bit part of Nokia before the Trojan Horse was inserted in Nokia.

"Nokia shares owned by Fidelity Magellan fund"
http://news.morningstareurope.com/ne...s/magellan.jpg

It was the old fashioned "take-over" of the company by "MS".
Now Nokia is *owned* as it has made the restricting binding agreement with MS and burned all the bridges behind it.

The old platform was set on fire before Nokia dived into the MS-sea.

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

Nokia Q4 Results: Now Official, Elop has Created World-Record Destruction of Market Share in One Year
http://communities-dominate.blogs.co...-one-year.html

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

Well, I'm seeing quite a lot N9 advertisements here in Czech Republic. Basically every T-Mobile and Vodafone store has something like this:
http://i.imgur.com/CS0sY.jpg
There was nothing like this for the N900 and there are quite a lot of them around.

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

well, they didnt promote the n9 at all here in the USA, and it is still dificult to find, yet everyone who sees and uses my device longer than 5 minutes, tries to "swype" thier device in frustration after.

zero marketing and the sellers on craigslist, who price it right, cant keep them, and the 710 just launched and are already flooding the boards at $240-ish prices, and the $500-ish priced 800 is hardly selling at all.

and, the 710 is marketed all over the place here like the tmo stores do the n9 there.

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

Given the Elop drive for Wphone domination and that this is the first time
that I know of that Nokia has not disclosed sales figures either formally or informally. I think if N9 was less in sales he would of happily used it as a validation of the windows direction.
In Australia only two phones are listed by Telstra (biggest carrier) as country-wide phones
the N9 and a droid.(both on contract) I see as many N9 as N8 so hard to tell.
I dont know if the app store is necessarily a good indicator as the phone is so easy to use phone users can buy and not really use. I have two people at work who have had them for 3/6 weeks and havn't downloaded an app yet.
mostly all of the basics are there.

I think the Lumia 900 will be the one that defines the success or failure for
the elop strategy. If it does not get a premium status then I think it will be just another niche market.

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

That's just loose change to MS. It is a chicken feed of an amount to pay in return for being able to buy up Nokia in a year or two for next to nothing.

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

If all those blog-appraisals of sales figures are correct, M$ should buy Harmattan from Nokia and invest its money into a kickass open-sourced product and become the holiest company out there. Charity of founder is just the start, only way they can kill Apple/do-no-evil google is by becoming opensource avatars. This would be not only super from PR perspective, this would free the mobile world. Maybe a petition to Bill?

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

i don't know where you learned math or accounting (if at all), but 250 M$ pampering versus 1400 M$ loss sounds like a pretty bad deal to me :confused:

i don't want to add to the number speculation about the N9's sales; only thing i can say for sure (along whatsa's line) is that in one of those markets where the N9 is not (officially) distributed it can both be bought directly without contract from various online shops and the largest carriers in the countries (with contract)...
i don't think they'd brave Flop just for the sake of the fun; there must a real demand for the thing, otherwise it wouldn't be offered (@ horrendous prices, nonetheless...)

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

Very interesting, thanks for sharing this info! Got more? That Elop is a Microsoft shill has been clear from day one :(

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

There was this story a few days ago:

Nokia Lumia Sales Seen Topping 1 Million in Relief for Stock

Edit: This bit really pisses me off:

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

It actually didn't ship in decent no's to many launch countries till the beginning of Nov.
There was huge debates in the epic N9 thread about poor availability, and what was going on.
We worked out there was some kind of "ramp-up" issue in the main factories, it was eventually resolved.
So by mid-Nov/Dec limited distribution had mostly been rectified for the 1st countries.

Oddly enough, the Lumia models did not appear to suffer the same "ramp-up" issues.
But they were only delivered to a few countries to start with, but so was the N9 (it was phased etc).
Dunno......

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

Lumias came very late in 2011, so no wonder they didn't sell a lot of them. No point in comparing Lumias to Samsung or Apple devices which enjoy much more popular availability in the world, mostly because they were launched *months earlier* (plus, the popular knowledge of 'iphone' comes in years while Nokia has jut started promoting the whole Lumia/WP thing just recently).

Anyhow, I don't believe they sold even a million of N9s. Where are these phones then? N9 owners are very rare while pretty much every second person owns an iPhone, at least as it may seem in any bigger European city.

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

Its too late to change the course.

Meego/Maemo team was mostly dismantled, the small crew doing Meltemi work are concentrating on low-end devices. Marketshare is plummeting down, commercial 3rd party developers are leaving (mobile) Qt and so on.

By the time Nokia would have something new ready for smartphonemarket, it would have already lost remaining marketshare, whatever is left at the bank, Qt ecosystem, brand recognition etc. Its about being a boring Microsoft OEM or shutting down/selling the business for Nokia from now onwards.

OPK era Nokia did the right things badly, Elop era Nokia does stupid things idioticly.

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

We're talking about compared to the L800 or 710....
I think it may (or could) have done quite well, despite the many roadblocks it's faced.

It's irrelevant anyway, as sales rates will gradually get much better for the Lumia's (if they haven't already).
It's constantly being rolled-out to new countries... & more importantly...
It started in the the largest economies, & the ones with the highest smartphone uptake rates.
At one point it was promised the N9 would be rolled-out to some countries it's blocked form.
That was about 3-mth ago, but we've heard nothing since...

All we hear about, is new countries that the Lumia series are going to, & Nokia fast-tracking roll-outs to x countries.
And all we hear about, is the massive telco subsidies, & schemes to award salespeople for selling Nokia WP's etc.
With way more love it could've been a sales success, but N9 ultimately doesn't have a chance.

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

I still think Elop is a shill and that this is basically a take-over of Nokia by Mircosoft. No-one can be that incompetent and bullishly arrogant at the same time. Eliminate competing product. Check. Run company into the ground. Check. Offer helping hand. Check. Unless the Finnish government steps in I think knife in the back comes next.

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

Actually these were Konttori's words to me quite recently:

MP = Mobile Phone, it's the division that Meltemi sits underneath.
I don't know if he's exaggerating or not, but I certainly hope not.
Even so, it's unlikely we'll get Maemo-based smartphones geared for the high-end.
If we're lucky there might eventually be one that creeps into smartphone hw territory.

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

Maemo is a thin layer over linux, how big the project is depends on what "big" is. It is not at all like doing a operating system from scratch like Microsoft needed to do with windows phone and has failed with. Microsoft is switching the kernel to same kernel as windows 8, this is done in apollo I think. Then it could compete with Maemo.

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

Or worse.
Android - Ice cream sandwich is just out, the fist two pones with 720p resolution is out and in just two months there will be many more. Android has fast dual core mobiles, higher resolution in cheap mobile phones.
Competition isn't standing still

Is it possible to sell phones stuck at 480x800 with single core processors and bad support for new technologies?
If they are very cheap, then maybe. But Nokia will pay a very very big price to sell those dirt cheap phones.

Linux (Maemo) is a much better system and more people is involved in the development than Microsoft will put on its WP

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

Nokia vs Apple

Very interesting!!
http://communities-dominate.blogs.co...ing-nokia.html

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

Wally the jargon buster.

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

We are comparing the same quarter, do you get it? It shows what Nokia's Lumia sales means compared to its competitors. What is your purpose to pick sales figures for iphone 3 which is totally in another age?

The reason why Nokia dare not reveal breakdown figures is because N9 has outsold Lumia and this is devastating to Elop. Despite being banned from major markets, minimum promotion and declared dead by a Microsoft crazed Elop it outsold Lumia proving that his WP7 strategy is wrong.

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

ya know, ive been using my E6-00 for the last 6 months and picked up my N900 for the forst time in a while

this three year old UI feels two generations ahead of belle

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

Can you elaborate please. Linux is a general purpose OS, while WP has been tailored to the purpose. To me it looks like Linux is more likely to be struggling to get the job done in future.

(that said, Linux is great, I don't use anything else on my home PCs).

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

Creating a operating system for multithreaded apps is much harder compared to singelthreaded task based systems.

There would be some truth in the statement that WP is done to fit in slow hardware or hardware that need to take every step possible to save power TWO years ago. This is not the case anymore. At the end of 2012 we may see the first quad core mobile phone, we will certainly see it in 2013.

Also, threading done in the hardware does not consuming more power. Having two cores and you can lower the frequency to save power. Single core processor that his clocked high will consume more power compared to a dual core that has a bit lower frequency.
Mobile phones today is connected to internet all the time, they are checking things, tracking etc. All that while someone is talking in the phone or listens to music. In order to do that smoothly with a task based operating system it will consume much more power because the system needs to create all logic in the software.

Also Windows Phone will NEVER get same support for different types of hardware that linux has


Today if someone is saying "WP can't do multithreaded apps because it need to save power" is just marketing crap from someone that don't know how it works internally.

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

the best way forward for Nokia may be to use the fabled and currently vapourware Meltemi and their hardware expertise to start knocking out phones similar to the ZTE blade /BladeII and others which are mid spec Android devices getting pushed out at £100 or so.

Chuck the Swipe interface from the N9 on them to wow and seduce the punters, and allow these devices to be "unlocked" or customised by the community like Android can be (think cyanogenmod), and there may be a real chance for them to be very disruptive in the market.

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

Why go through all that effort when they can just slap Maemo 5 for the high end phones and tablets and Maemo 6 for mid-end. Job DONE!!!

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

This is quite obvious, as the N9 wasn't actually launched/officially offered in the US at all.

In South Africa (which got the N9 quite soon after other countries, launched in late Oct 2011), the N9 is advertised in all Vodacom and MTN stores. The N900 wasn't really officially available here at all (one Vodacom service provider did offer it) and not advertised at all. Whereas In Nov/Dec, Vodacom's handset booklet had the N9 on the front page. I am not sure how good sales have been, but I have seen a number of people with them (whereas I haven't seen one other N900 here).

The Lumia 800 was launched exclusively on Vodacom last week, I am hoping this will result in sane prices for the N9 (Vodacom's prepaid price for the N9 is about 10% higher than that at the Nokia store at Vodaworld ...).

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

What are you taking about? Linux isn't a general purpose OS, it's a kernel.
Linux-based Operating Systems come in "many" shapes and sizes...
The Linux kernel (there's many flavors) has been used in embedded platforms, & small form-factor devices since it's inception.

Multi-threaded != Multi-tasking.

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

Proverbial "nail on the head." And rumors are that's roughly what their plan is.
Cept we don't yet know much about the unlock-able or readily hack-able part.

Never gunna happen while MS's their primary partner.
Maemo 6x for bottom-end up to mid-end, if we're lucky.
And WP for their top-end down to mid-end devices...

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

We are fully aware of MS's success in killing a company and its OS, UI development efforts. Two great OSs and UIs gone down the pooper as independent beings for the sake of an OS that's in a deep coma awaiting a life support removal signature.If God is fair, we'd get that signature.

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

YoY profits on smart devices is down 550MUSD (your numbers are almost a billon off and you talk about accounting??). Then, in these 550M, some of it
- is non related to WP (can't be bothered to find the 2010 res, but they were already down at least 200M, and nothing from symbian or harmattan would have changed that in 2011)
- is due to the lack of devices actually released in 2011
- does not count the 250MUSD of bribe for staying with MS.

As first point doesn't concern MS, second point is to be reduced next year, and third point comes every quarter, including the non-Q4 ones (less volumes), it actually looks like the number are not that far off. At least not a billion.

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

The funny thing about that is that now I've had the chance to play with a lumia, I find it feels more like a successor to S40 than my n9.

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???
 

I found this

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...for-stock.html

They talk about 1.4 Millon sold N9s - is this site trustable ?

Re: Nokia Q4 results are out. Lost $ 1.4 Billion. Now what Nokia will do ???