Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

...and a very good one. Lubeman should be proud of you, in the way that a guy from NA can actually assess things "right".

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

About windows CE....that most likely will change soon with WP8
http://www.osnews.com/story/25574/Mi..._Use_NT_Kernel

Not that it matters to end users really

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

It's just a kernel. Won't make such a difference. Look at webOS, it will use a standard Linux kernel when they move to "open" instead of their current one that's patched, but the environment / software stack around that is crap. Same with WP.

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

Please dont reply Lumiaman he is just a naive troll and I dont wana see his quotes because I have added him to the ignorelist...

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

Dont sure if I should agree or not but:

Why on earth doesn't the rest of the board or the big stockholders do somehing about this stupid strategy?

Actually they do NOTHING to replace him! Just plain ****ing NOTHING! I am sure they will reselect him this year.

So question is: Is it only we at TMO and some newssites who actually care!?

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

Seems like it.

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

Jesus. I know it's not the OS. That is not the point. Christ !!! I am referring to Ahonen's bull about no other OS being able to handle PureView technology. PureView has been developed in FIVE YEARS. No matter what OS it was intended for 5 years ago, if it was S40, Palm OS, WM, iOS, Maemo, MeeGo, Bada, WebOS, whatever. PureView would work on the particular OS it was developed for no matter what, and no other. Ahonen's argument is nonsense.

If I made an app for Palm and no other OS, does that make Palm a superior OS? No, it makes me stupid for making an app on a dead OS. Nokia makes HW that work only on Symbian (an os with a market share in free fall), does that make Symbian Superior? No, it makes Nokia stupid.

The stupidity is unbelievable actually. Nokia has this gem of a technology that is protected with more than 80 patents. Any other company with such a technology in their hands (except Apple), would put that technology on a top end Android device to be sure that the profit from that technology is maximized. The last thing any other company would do was to put that technology on a device running Symbian.

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

You seem to be aware that it took 5 years to develop but unaware that 5 years ago their plan was not to abandon Symbian??

The problem with abandoning a particular strategy in this case, is that all the offshoot projects, R&D, etc relating to that strategy will be less directly relevant to the new strategy. (i.e. it will take time to migrate the technology to any new system.)

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

Windows was a horrible choice for flagship OS, agreed. However It is important to understand that Symbian is not the ultimate OS to have. Symbian is better than Windows Phone because it probably at the moment has better apps and flexibility. However I strongly disagree with the point made on the article that Symbian is better than Android. Really? Why do people deny the pure fact that Android is the only true OPEN os that lets people do whatever they want and its evolving and available for many devices. Don't get me wrong I am not an Android fan (Give me Maemo 5 Community edition any day) but it is probably the best os out there right now.
Also Nokia necessarily did not have to move to Android they could have stuck to Linux based OS technology and introduced them to Symbian lovers...trust me after thousand groans and moans they would have realized what a great OS a linux makes.
So my point is Nokia needed to evolve in the OS department that's for sure whether with a more advanced version of Symbian, stick to Maemo Meego or even Android. If they stuck to Symbian they would still have that niche market. With Android they would have a more mainstream market. With windows phone they have close to zero market.
But bear in mind an organization always needs to evolve.

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

...or revolve.

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

Who cares about 41 MP. The 8 MP camer on iphone gives brilliant pictures. Most of the people dont really care.

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

crap how? explain yourself

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

Lots of people care about 41 MP. The iphone shoots OK pictures, not brilliant pictures. The 808 shoots brilliant pictures (as do the N8 by the way, but not so brilliant).

Just because you don't care, doesn't mean most people don't care.

Just read a good requirement for smartphone. A smartphone must be able to operate completely independent of a PC. Most smartphones do, but not WP.

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

Non-standard software stack (=no udev, DBus, X, init.d, the whole sh*t thats necessary), which makes porting FOSS software a nightmare. And i'm not satisfied with feature-restricted but oh so elegantly web-style developed crapps relying on >60px sized buttons.

One example: look at webOS. Luna is the system / app / framebuffer manager, whatever, here. Installing a JS-based(!) patch? Restart it, or even reboot. Compiled-in keyboard layouts? Yes please! (patchable in a limited way but still crap)
System takes ages to boot and it's not even doing half the work that Arch is doing when installed natively.

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

I just wanna get in your head and read your thought if iPhone was releasing with a 41MP sensor. You'd be like, "OMG, all others are crap, 41MP is the best, bla bla." If you say 41MP doesn't matter, than why do you record video at 1080p and not VGA?

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

Don't feed Trollman

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

Let's play along... first off, they wouldn't produce the 41mp number in any part of their marketing. Instead, it would be marketed as "the world's first camera that works like your own eyes... captures the infinite detail of your surroundings and stores it on an innovative phone that allows it to record what you see... announced Retina Capture." or something.

Then the specs would come out, after the fact but it'll have some caveat like you need to pay for their Aperture software - which is like $89.99 via the iTunes App Store - to fully transfer all of that detail to your computer. Speaking of your computer, you will need their new Retina Display monitor or Retina Display iMac or Retina Display enabled Mac Book Pro to enjoy such detail from your Retina Capture enabled iPhone.

Having an interpolated 41mp camera on my phone - if the colors are true and it doesn't introduce a lot of noise to lower light situations; I wouldn't mind. But if it means that I have to lock myself to a OS that I particularly do not like (I dislike Symbian, personal choice) then I have a problem. WP7 and Android don't have drivers to support that level of camera - they're struggling with 8mp and higher, can't imagine scaling up to 41mp will be easier for them.

Long story made short... Apple is better at marketing than most.

Or "how I learned to hate the words that accompany the gadgets I love."

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

Sadly for N9 fans, though, Williams believes the MeeGo ship has now sailed. "The team has left or been reassigned from what I hear, and the ecosystem and developer support is not there," he says.

Do your homework or Ballmer gets you, time to reinvent the Molotov-Cocktail :D

Very inetresting interview,
blck

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

More Nokia's money to Microsoft; well done.

http://www.pehub.com/147449/nokia-gr...ls-intermedia/
A mole or not a mole, that is not the question.

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

I'm hearing there may be a vote of no confidence for Elop coming very shortly.. interesting times

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

If true, then I hope that they have a contingency plan in place.

If anything, Elop got paid over 6 million dollars to do that to a company. Great.

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

and then what? Nokia must continue with WP. Their commitment to MS is not tied up with Elop. Symbian is dead, maemo is dead. Meltemi is just a dream with no ecosystem. Android?

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

Then what? That's something I'd love to hear to be honest.

Their commitment to WP7/WP8 shouldn't be all-in as it currently is. Maemo... they'd have to start rehiring everybody. And if I were those engineers, I wouldn't come back to Nokia unless ownership was given to them in this project.

Nokia has crossed the tipping point, in my humble opinion. So what they do next... they need to make it clear, announce soon, deliver sooner, start with their homebase of Finland and get the people involved, get things moving forward and forget impressing North American carriers and customers. This is not the area where they will sell the most. Asia then Europe then Africa... they need to stay strong in those areas first - or strengthen.

Media deals - why hasn't any handset maker partnered with Pandora or Spotify to the point of inclusion at time of sale yet? Just a thought - they've already handled the licensing, partner with them for online and offline as well as social music sharing. The framework is already there.

Harmattan - move it downstream a bit in terms of price (sorry, but it's not an expensive phone Nokia needs around that OS), release in more markets.

Dunno what's next. I'm just a customer. I can what-if with the best of them, but doubtful I'm close enough to the problem or solution to be taken seriously.

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

May i ask where you heard that from?

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

Please don't answer that. Lets just wait and see and hope. :rolleyes:

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

and what is your tag? Something about not knowing is worse than not wanting to know? ;)

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

I want to know, but I rather others didn't know. If you know what I mean. ;)

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

To continue with Elop's WP7 strategy leads to certain death. No if's and but's but a confirmed hole in the ground. There is no way that Lumia can turn the tide for Nokia. The U.S. market cannot save Nokia while the rest of the world is indifferent to Lumia. Throwing Lumia 900 at a loss doesn't help.

If a path leads to certain death isn't trying anything else better?

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

I really appreciated Tomi's article for revealing some of the numbers and history that is too soon forgotten or was hidden from view from the beginning. The Elop Effect was noticed by many of us on this forum before it had that snazzy title.

Most of us predicted that Elop's all-in bet on M$ was foolish, given the relatively tiny marketshare commanded by Nokia's 'partner'. You don't see any profitable OEM's positioning themselves with M$ like Elop did with Nokia. Probably they are focused on increasing the number of shipped units, not just being a trojan horse.

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

Through work. I'm a bankruptcy analyst. The company i work for investigates rumours and gathers as much information as possible before making credit reports.

One option they have is to split the company up and apply for Ch.11 bankruptcy protection in the US which they can use to reorganize from top to bottom while protecting assets.

When any senior executive for a large company is "on the ropes", the company I work for flag it immediately. One Chairman is already leaving which was reported already but the CEO position is being looked into so there's definitely more to it than just rumour.

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

As much as Nokia has really put their foot in it, it may give them renewed confidence that what they had all along (ie. meego) was the key to success, and motivate them more to push out some really eye opening products. Only time will tell!

only problem would be to rehire all the staff they fired. And i think they need a Finnish CEO... Nokia is Finland, Finland is Nokia. You shouldn't try to change that.

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

Faustino's rumor left my whole house white. Let's just hope that nokia's deal with microsoft is honoured like their deal with intel.

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

All the above is gonna happen for sure. RetinaVision will be available soon to be viewed solely on RetinaBox.

Symbian or not, that's the differentiating and market disturbing device that will sell and is a sure winner for Nokia if supported properly. N9 was such a device and yet no support and limited production gave such an outcome.

As for Android/iOS, It's driver and SoC issue. Those chips are not powerful enough to process 41MP. Broadcom is specifically developed for such tech advances on the mobile front.

They can make crap look like GOLD in people's minds.

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

Elop should be fired, Meego should become their main OS. S40 should transition to Meltemi, and Symbian should stay and get developed until they can transition everything to Meego with the power of Qt.. WP (Lumia) should continue in North America and should evolve into a better OS and ecosystem until Meego is strong enough (ecosystem wise) to take over or reside next to Lumia in North America...

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

Fingers crossed they do!

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

Nokia starts looking more and more like a whale on dry land - helpless, and no one else is able to help them either. They are too big, too heavy, and they have already started to smell really bad.

I thought WP would at least have some traction, but in Europe after some months of sales WP is getting nowhere, even with heavy marketing. The Lumia is not competitive against iPhones and Androids, not at the price point they are selling for right now.

If Apollo is NT core and the N800/900 is upgradable, I will get one.

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

Honestly, that's probably the best strategy Nokia can do right now! :/

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

Honestly, its the worst.
Nokia not only secretly withheld their intention to back off with their Intel partnership, but they withdrew all support for MeeGo and their whole Linux (N900/N9/N950) offerings. Then they removed Symbian from "open source" and also said they were going to phase out Symbian, and probably S40 too. They fired most of their staff and gave away many talents to Microsoft.
Basically, NOKIA said they were going to become 100% Windows based.

For them to turn around and utilize S40 or Symbian or Maemo or MeeGo would mean one thing: they have no clue what they are doing, or how to do it!

The best strategy for Nokia now is to make sure Plan A succeeds. They need to develop Windows Phone 8 themselves and make it as good as iOS 5 or ICS, and sell it in devices as good as the iPhone 4S or Galaxy's.

If NOKIA fails with Windows Phone, they fail as a company and will be sold off like Palm. Probably sold in large segments to utilize their cash reserves and IP. The failure on Microsoft will be huge, however its nothing M$ can't bounce back from, since they have a promising offer with Windows8 and since WP8 can be licensed to other OEMs.

The best case scenario, is that Nokia becomes RIM. They offer a niche product, and gain a niche market. They break even in their quarterlies, but never making excessive profits like Apple, Samsung or HTC.

Funny that makes the post-iPhone deathlist: HP, Palm, LG, Dell, RIM, Nokia and possibly Motorola (acquisition pending).

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

LG's figures for Q1 2012 beat expectations - increased handset sales and profitability.

Also let's not forget the iPhone was REMARKABLY similar to the LG KE850.

Re: Must read! Tomi Ahonen roasts Elop's decisions
 

Elop has done an outstanding job of having Nokia served to MS on a golden platter.

Well done Elop.